Tape machine-style varispeed!

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agrpap
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Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by agrpap »

For the love of God, man! Logic has it. Reaper has it. Record/Reason has it. I've been waiting for this forever. Macca nearly always recorded his vox wth the tape slowed down a bit. Listen to how heavy the guitars are on "Rain." They were recorded with the tape sped up. This is an old-school trick and I can't understand why you won't implement it into Cubase. I don't want to *knuf* around with different sample rates to approximate it; I want real, actual varispeed. PLEASE!

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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by suntower »

+1

I've occasionally thought about writing a little program to parse all the feature requests into a single list. It might be surprising to see how so many 'isolated' F/Rs have actually been re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-requested by different people over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by -steve- »

suntower wrote:I've occasionally thought about writing a little program to parse all the feature requests into a single list.
So you should do it. You could score the FRs according to how the number of threads each showed up in. This would be the kind of concrete data that would make it more relevant to the devs and project managers.

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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by claesbjo »

+1 tape style varispeed should be an option..love how you can tune the speed to actual semitones and cents in logic.
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by curteye »

SteveInChicago wrote:
suntower wrote:I've occasionally thought about writing a little program to parse all the feature requests into a single list.
So you should do it. You could score the FRs according to how the number of threads each showed up in. This would be the kind of concrete data that would make it more relevant to the devs and project managers.

+1
I too would looooove to read that report.
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by Crotchety »

+1 cos then you could also do things like that little wobble on the piano at the end of 'Great Gig in the Sky'. And did I read that flanging was originally some creative leaning on the tape spools? Same difference, no? It's one of those basic abilities that can take you who knows where...
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

suntower wrote:+1

I've occasionally thought about writing a little program to parse all the feature requests into a single list. It might be surprising to see how so many 'isolated' F/Rs have actually been re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-requested by different people over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

You are not alone.
this one certainly is one of those re re re quested features.

'varispeed' requests alone:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 71498&hili
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 97971&hili
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 63472&hili
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 63309&hili
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by raytracer »

+1. I would upgrade from 6.5 in a heart beat solely for this. I can't understand why it's not already in Cubase.

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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by suntower »

I seem to recall back in 2005ish... there was a guy on the old Sparky forum who actually kinda/sorta did this. I think it was a Russian guy I actually got drunk with in Niagara Falls. (He did this sort of Vysotsky/ heavy metal/blues protest thing that was kinda cool.)

Anyhoo... the upshot is, -whoever-, I think he got banned from the forum for complaining too much. :D Maybe the data just made him even more frustrated.

If you're not sure whether or not the State is listening, one can still sleep at night. But once you have data which -proves- that no one cares, how can one go on living?

Most Soviet metaphor. :D
SteveInChicago wrote:
suntower wrote:I've occasionally thought about writing a little program to parse all the feature requests into a single list.
So you should do it. You could score the FRs according to how the number of threads each showed up in. This would be the kind of concrete data that would make it more relevant to the devs and project managers.
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

agrpap wrote: Macca nearly always recorded his vox wth the tape slowed down a bit. !
(you mean singing in a lower register than the song, then speeding up the tape to match the key of the song?)
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by Prock »

+1 (again)

As of now the only workaround in CB is to open the hard drive and use the eraser end of a pencil to slow down the disk. If you only have an SSD then you are out of luck. :lol:

Seriously though, this feature would be appreciated. ;)

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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by peakae »

I don't understand the question, if I set my audio files to use the tape algorithm in the pool and I change the tempo of the song, the pitch changes. What am I missing?
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

peakae wrote:I don't understand the question, if I set my audio files to use the tape algorithm in the pool and I change the tempo of the song, the pitch changes. What am I missing?
for me, this is missing the ability to align those changes to precise semitone steps.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

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cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by peakae »

Ahh ok thanks.
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

peakae wrote:Ahh ok thanks.
no problem, let's keep the request alive.
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audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

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cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by raytracer »

peakae wrote:I don't understand the question, if I set my audio files to use the tape algorithm in the pool and I change the tempo of the song, the pitch changes. What am I missing?
In Cubase 6.5 the tape algorithm introduces some odd changes at the sample boundaries, which is a problem for time stretching loops, it sounds broken to me. I don't know if they've changed this behaviour in C7 or C8.

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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

raytracer wrote:
peakae wrote:I don't understand the question, if I set my audio files to use the tape algorithm in the pool and I change the tempo of the song, the pitch changes. What am I missing?
In Cubase 6.5 the tape algorithm introduces some odd changes at the sample boundaries, which is a problem for time stretching loops, it sounds broken to me. I don't know if they've changed this behaviour in C7 or C8.
Yes this has been improved since. I still need the ability to change the speed in semitone steps...
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by suntower »

peakae wrote:I don't understand the question, if I set my audio files to use the tape algorithm in the pool and I change the tempo of the song, the pitch changes. What am I missing?
It's always a good idea to define one's terms... especially on something like this.

What you're describing is means that -every- track in the song has to be set to musical mode and is being stretched for every desired change.

What -I- want is simply this: a plug-in that will allow me to slow down or speed up the pitch of any track or buss IN REAL TIME. Typically the master buss. So you're only 'effecting' -one- track. So to use the Beatles' example...

When overdubbing vocals, they would slow down the master tape, so Paul could sing/record in a more comfortable (lower) key... usually 1/2 to 1 semi-tone. So the song is in G but he hears the band and thus is singing/recording in F#. But then afterwards, they return the tape speed to 'normal' and et viola... his o/d is in G with the rest of the song. The only downside is that it isn't formant corrected... which accounts for the often 'chipmunky' quality of his b-vox.

Maybe others have a better idea, but the plug-in -I- want would simply be placed as an insert on the master buss (or Control Room Listen) to do the same thing... it would raise/lower the output that Paul -hears- in the cans so he can sing at a more comfortable pitch. Of course, in the Cubase world, afterward, one would then have to apply a 'speed-up' effect to Paul's track to match the 'tape'.

Taking it a step further, such a plug would be automatable, which then opens up the world of tape-style flanging/phasing effects by varying the pitch adjustment in real time and mixing that back in with the original signal.

I'm in no way endorsing them, but actually, I'm waiting for Waves Reel ADT to go on sale because it kinda/sorta does a lot of this.

The -main- thing I want: ONE KNOB. The brilliance of so many old school FX is that they require skill to do well, but they are dead simple. No screwing with 'musical modes' for 200 tracks and 'algorithms' and complex patching and whatnot. I liken this to VCAs and Direct Routing. Before VCAs, you -could- do the same things in Cubase... but it was all ----way---- more complicated than a 'real' desk. I want the power of digital editing with the simple workflow of old school desks.
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by Puma0382 »

Reapers VariSpeed facility is a global function - you engage it, you slow down/speed up the ENTIRE backing; you slow the backing to say F#, Paul hears it and sings it at F# comfortably, then you speed everything back up to your desired 'normal' pitch/speed or wherever.
suntower wrote: Maybe others have a better idea, but the plug-in -I- want would simply be placed as an insert on the master buss (or Control Room Listen) to do the same thing... it would raise/lower the output that Paul -hears- in the cans so he can sing at a more comfortable pitch. Of course, in the Cubase world, afterward, one would then have to apply a 'speed-up' effect to Paul's track to match the 'tape'.
I can't quite believe this idea of a plugin working on the masterbuss to allow someone to sing at a lower pitch 'artificially' and then to 'speed up' that vocal recording to bring it back into the root key with the rest of the backing... thats weird. How would this work with the actual physical passing of time - presuming Paul is the only one 'hearing' all the backing in a different key, is anything else playing at a slower speed..? How can that be happening..? Is everything else still staying at its 'normal' speed/key..? Are we still talking about varispeed and not artificially just transposing audio/midi..?

Maybe I'm misreading and confusing two concepts..?
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by suntower »

No idea how Reaper does it. As I wrote, that's -my- idea of what would be good. Others may have their own concept. But all I'm after is, basically, pitch shifting... which isn't exactly string theory. Lots of plugs already do it. Whether it's done via Plug-In or space-magic, isn't the main thing. But a plug would provide more flexibility. I just want a way to do it in one step with one knob.

---JC
Puma0382 wrote:Reapers VariSpeed facility is a global function - you engage it, you slow down/speed up the ENTIRE backing; you slow the backing to say F#, Paul hears it and sings it at F# comfortably, then you speed everything back up to your desired 'normal' pitch/speed or wherever.
suntower wrote: Maybe others have a better idea, but the plug-in -I- want would simply be placed as an insert on the master buss (or Control Room Listen) to do the same thing... it would raise/lower the output that Paul -hears- in the cans so he can sing at a more comfortable pitch. Of course, in the Cubase world, afterward, one would then have to apply a 'speed-up' effect to Paul's track to match the 'tape'.
I can't quite believe this idea of a plugin working on the masterbuss to allow someone to sing at a lower pitch 'artificially' and then to 'speed up' that vocal recording to bring it back into the root key with the rest of the backing... thats weird. How would this work with the actual physical passing of time - presuming Paul is the only one 'hearing' all the backing in a different key, is anything else playing at a slower speed..? How can that be happening..? Is everything else still staying at its 'normal' speed/key..? Are we still talking about varispeed and not artificially just transposing audio/midi..?

Maybe I'm misreading and confusing two concepts..?
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by agrpap »

I want a "Tape-Speed" knob. Just like the ones on actual tape machines. If you must, it can be a slider. But if I want to speed up/slow down whatever has been recorded, I turn the knob, record whatever it is at the new speed, return speed to normal after tracking. Hey Presto.

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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by raytracer »

lukasbrooklyn wrote:
raytracer wrote:
peakae wrote:I don't understand the question, if I set my audio files to use the tape algorithm in the pool and I change the tempo of the song, the pitch changes. What am I missing?
In Cubase 6.5 the tape algorithm introduces some odd changes at the sample boundaries, which is a problem for time stretching loops, it sounds broken to me. I don't know if they've changed this behaviour in C7 or C8.
Yes this has been improved since.
Interesting, I'll have to check it out Cubase 8 in that case.
lukasbrooklyn wrote:I still need the ability to change the speed in semitone steps...
Changing the speed in semitone steps could probably be worked out with a bit of maths.

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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by distante »

+1 to this
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Re: Tape machine-style varispeed!

Post by JWink »

+1!!!

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