Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

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Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by pwmspeed » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:28 pm

I have just loaded a Cubase 7 project straight into 8. I made quick 32 bit float bounces in 7 and 8. Sorry, but on first sight the new audio engine does not sound as good a the old one. I had worries because I did read about the performance increase in 8. I have not made any comparisions with different ASIO guard settings etc. I have just uploaded the bounces to the mastering studio I work for and the senior mastering engineer will check it later tonight. As i said: This is the result of a quick test. I have not checked if the sound difference is due to the audio engine or a new (?) channel EQ algorithm (new low cuts in 8). I need to look further into this. Any other opinions?
Last edited by pwmspeed on Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:20 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here

Post by peakae » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:34 pm

Does it NULL ?
Well someone had to ask ;-)
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here

Post by pwmspeed » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:45 pm

I phase inverted one mix. does not "null". since my studio setting is quite complicated (mixing analog here) i am rechecking everything at the moment so that there is no routing quirk. but as far as i can see everything is coming out of my lavry stereo converter - which is my stereo out. would be cool if others would check it as well since i hardly have digital stereo summing mixes prepared here.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here

Post by cmaffia » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:49 pm

pwmspeed wrote:I have just loaded a Cubase 7 project straight into 8. I made quick 32 bit float bounces in 7 and 8. Sorry, but the new audio engine does not sound as good a the old one. I had those worries because I did read about the performance increase in 8. I have not made any comparisions with different ASIO guard settings etc. I have just uploaded the bounces to the mastering studio I work for and the senior mastering engineer will check it later tonight. As i said: This is the result of a quick test. I hav not checked if the sound difference is due to the audio engine or a new channel EQ algorithm. I need to look further into this. Any other opinions?
Define "good" and "not as good". Sound is a matter of taste and preference.
Personally I found my projects to sound better without first knowing they changed the audio engine.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here

Post by fishtank » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:52 pm

Different pan law settings?

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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here

Post by pwmspeed » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:12 pm

Ok, here is how I check: I make two tracks with the mixes sitting right underneath. one is muted, one is playing. if i hit "solo" on the muted one, it switches to this one. with closed eyes i the klick on the solo button so many times that i can't tell which track is playing. the problem: i find that the solo function makes a track sound different than when its playing straight. thats why i uploaded the mix to a mastering studio to check there on a "neutral" system. will give feedback as soon as i have it. i just wanted to get this community to check, the more ears that do so, the better....
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by Steve Helstrip » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:09 pm

Lol. There's always one of these posts with each new version.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here

Post by mbr » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:50 pm

pwmspeed wrote:Ok, here is how I check: I make two tracks with the mixes sitting right underneath. one is muted, one is playing. if i hit "solo" on the muted one, it switches to this one. with closed eyes i the klick on the solo button so many times that i can't tell which track is playing. the problem: i find that the solo function makes a track sound different than when its playing straight. thats why i uploaded the mix to a mastering studio to check there on a "neutral" system. will give feedback as soon as i have it. i just wanted to get this community to check, the more ears that do so, the better....

ok great !!

let us know what the mastering engineer say
Last edited by mbr on Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by tekniq » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:00 pm

i didnt know that the audio engine 'does' sound?

so is cubase a vst fx or instrument?

i always thought its a daw

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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by peakae » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:20 pm

Audio engine has been changed, they added ASIO guard 2. That should not change the sound. However if plugins are not properly delay compensated due to the added output buffer, then that would change the sound. I would be surprised if that is so.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by Freddie H » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:25 pm

The sound has changed and it sounds much warmer and better and it has been rebuild from scratch. I'm really amazed that some of you can't hear and spot that?
It's almost night and day different! ...yes.. same pan law.

Asio guard 2 is another story.


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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by Tanant » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:05 pm

I phase recorded a linear toilet flush and amplified it by 1000. I've sent it off to CSI Miami for analysis; I'll let you know what they say.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by Timo » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:16 pm

LOL!
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by Jarno » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:38 pm

Steve Helstrip wrote:Lol. There's always one of these posts with each new version.
I just bought a new pocket calculator. Now when I calculate "2+2" the resulting "4" is definitely more "clear", "warm", "natural" and "deep" than with my old calculator. :roll:
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by peakae » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:26 am

Yes the sum is the same or must be the same. Unless there is some algorithm involved, and that would not be cool to include in an audio engine. I guess I have to do a null test, and be sure not to include any nonlinear fx.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by -steve- » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:36 am

Freddie H wrote:The sound has changed and it sounds much warmer and better and it has been rebuild from scratch. I'm really amazed that some of you can't hear and spot that?
It's almost night and day different! ...yes.. same pan law.

Asio guard 2 is another story.


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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by curteye » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:39 am

Jarno wrote: I just bought a new pocket calculator. Now when I calculate "2+2" the resulting "4" is definitely more "clear", "warm", "natural" and "deep" than with my old calculator
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by sonicstate » Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:31 am

For superior musicality of Cubase 8 you MUST have these properly installed. Please NOTE that :"D4 Ebony is highly recommended for people who put speaker cable on the hardwood floor; however, even regular D4 users can feel the improved sound effect when they mix regular D4 with D4 Ebony. Based on our testing, when regular D4 was used with D4 Ebony, it supplemented drawbacks of each other and created synergy effect. "
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/12/ve ... agazine%29

Of course, the difference in night and day: "The difference between regular version of D4 and Ebony Limited Edition is clearly identified through listening test. The regular version of D4 is colorless clear sound on the wide stage and D4 Ebony creates energetic sound with high density. It is like the difference between TR amp and Tube Amp."
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by -steve- » Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:40 am

Nonsense. Everybody knows that without these $2000 power cables, http://www.lessloss.com/dfpc-series-p-213.html#ref, there's no point to even getting out of bed to start mixing.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by curteye » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:41 am

SteveInChicago wrote:Nonsense. Everybody knows that without these $2000 power cables, http://www.lessloss.com/dfpc-series-p-213.html#ref, there's no point to even getting out of bed to start mixing.

True but you need to have the $9000.00 8 foot speaker cables as well!

http://www.thecableco.com/Product/product.aspx?iid=6102
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by Steve Helstrip » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:19 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:Nonsense. Everybody knows that without these $2000 power cables, http://www.lessloss.com/dfpc-series-p-213.html#ref, there's no point to even getting out of bed to start mixing.
I've just bought this cable on your recommendation for the wife's beloved washing machine. I'm expecting seriously white whites, deeper blues, and generally all round cleaner clothes. Can't wait to see her face on Christmas morning.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by pwmspeed » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:28 pm

Ok, feedback from one europes leading mastering studios chief mastering engineer. His quote: "The Cubase 8 mix lacks definition and body". Basically the same what I find here in my studio. I submitted three file pairs: 1) Stereo bounce of a single stereo track with just a volume change. 2) Stereo bounce of a single stereo track with a lexicon native reverb via fx send. 3) a complete mixdown from a project - basicalls 30 tracks mixed via my high end studer 961 console. All of them sound better in 7 than in 8. I am trying to inform Steinberg.
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by mozizo » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:11 pm

cubase 8 has less sound quality, you need to use cubase PRO 8, there is hidden turbo Pro button in preferences
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by lukasbrooklyn » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:48 pm

Freddie H wrote:The sound has changed and it sounds much warmer and better and it has been rebuild from scratch. I'm really amazed that some of you can't hear and spot that?
It's almost night and day different! ...yes.. same pan law.

Asio guard 2 is another story.


Best Regards
Freddie
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cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
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Re: Cubase 7 sounds better than 8 here at first sight

Post by lukasbrooklyn » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:59 pm

pwmspeed wrote:I have just loaded a Cubase 7 project straight into 8. I made quick 32 bit float bounces in 7 and 8. Sorry, but on first sight the new audio engine does not sound as good a the old one. I had worries because I did read about the performance increase in 8. I have not made any comparisions with different ASIO guard settings etc. I have just uploaded the bounces to the mastering studio I work for and the senior mastering engineer will check it later tonight. As i said: This is the result of a quick test. I have not checked if the sound difference is due to the audio engine or a new (?) channel EQ algorithm (new low cuts in 8). I need to look further into this. Any other opinions?
i also noticed a difference but never tried nulling yet. i also use a bit of HW and incidentally a lavry converter as well. though the converter doesn't mean much in this case.

a couple of things i'd consider...
it's a known issue plugin automation behaves differently at different bufferlengths. this is very audible when abrupt automation curves are used -- the automation is lazier the higher the bufferlength. i believe this is more of an issue with vst2x plugins compared to vst3. with the new asioguard, you may not be getting the same speed / resolution of your automation.

regarding hw: i keep having issues with setting the correct ping delay of my hardware units. i'd make sure to re-ping your processors. to me, your issue sounds a lot like your HW may be incorrectly compensated for, hence creating some undesirable phase shifts that may smear the sound.

and lastly, i'd really try running the test without hardware inserts alogether as well, because otherwise you're asking for 1:1 repeatability from hardware...
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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