Sample Editor Question in C5

For users of legacy Steinberg Cubase software
Post Reply
axxeman
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Contact:

Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by axxeman » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:07 pm

Hello again Cubase Wizards, I wonder if someone knows the answer to this, please?

MT audio project - 6 tracks. Track 6 is backing vocals. I want to copy and paste some harmonies from chorus 3 into the relative positions in both chorus 1 and 2. Sounds easy so far doesn't it? However...the tempi of the 3 choruses is different by a few BPM (less in places). The result is that the chorus 3 section is the slowest and therefore the longest.

I saw in the books that you can open the sample editor and make a good take when you have multiple takes and see all the audio files at once. I only have the one. I tried duplicationg the track in the main window and then selecting both tracks and opening the sample editor but it only displayed the one audio file. I guess that both tracks 'point' to the same audio so that makes sense. I would prefer to be able to see two tracks vertically so that I could readily gauge what needs to be chopped to align the pasted material with the faster tempi.

Do I need to make a copy of the audio and rename it - say - backing vocals 1 in order to be able to do this?

Thanks to all who contribute,

Axxe

thinkingcap
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 6459
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:27 pm

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by thinkingcap » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:29 pm

axxeman wrote:MT audio project - 6 tracks.
MT..?
EDIT: Ah, "Multitrack", I guess...
axxeman wrote:I saw in the books that you can open the sample editor and make a good take when you have multiple takes and see all the audio files at once.
"The books" is what..? My guess is, you´re talking about the audio part editor rather than the sample editor.
Cubase 5.1.1 (32bit) | Win 7 Pro x64 SP1 | RME Fireface UFX | RME Fireface 800 | Cubase Essential 5 | Win 7 Home Premium x64
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just took off my thinkingcap, it got filled up with too much crap...

Guest

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:35 pm

Look up Convert To Real Copy and do it to the copy to change it without changing the other. A better way would be to use Warp Tabs to get an accurate Tempo Map. Once done, you could move the slower piece around and have it follow the tempo of the location pasted.

axxeman
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by axxeman » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:37 pm

Sorry, the book I most refer to is Simon Millward - Fast Guide to Cubase 5.

axxeman
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by axxeman » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:38 pm

mashedmitten wrote:Look up Convert To Real Copy and do it to the copy to change it without changing the other. A better way would be to use Warp Tabs to get an accurate Tempo Map. Once done, you could move the slower piece around and have it follow the tempo of the location pasted.
Any chance of an ABC monkey see monkey do re the warp tabs thing please MM?

I have never used the warp functions BUT I do have the song tempo mapped fairly accurately. Would this help with your solution?

thinkingcap
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 6459
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:27 pm

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by thinkingcap » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:46 pm

axxeman wrote:I have never used the warp functions BUT I do have the song tempo mapped fairly accurately. Would this help with your solution?
If you have the song tempo mapped, set the files to musical mode in the sample editor, set the tracks to musical timebase if done correct, you can copy the long chorus to the short chorus (or vice versa) and they will adapt to the tempo automatically.
Cubase 5.1.1 (32bit) | Win 7 Pro x64 SP1 | RME Fireface UFX | RME Fireface 800 | Cubase Essential 5 | Win 7 Home Premium x64
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just took off my thinkingcap, it got filled up with too much crap...

Guest

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:50 pm

Good vids here.

Videos

axxeman
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by axxeman » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:55 pm

thinkingcap wrote:
axxeman wrote:I have never used the warp functions BUT I do have the song tempo mapped fairly accurately. Would this help with your solution?
If you have the song tempo mapped, set the files to musical mode in the sample editor, set the tracks to musical timebase if done correct, you can copy the long chorus to the short chorus (or vice versa) and they will adapt to the tempo automatically.
When I say tempo mapped, I mean that there is a click track that was used as a timebase and I have inserted appropriate tempo shifts to keep the bars (arrange window ruler) in line with each beat 1 click. I hope that is what you meant...

Guest

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:58 pm

Yeah, make sure the correct tempo for each part is listed in the pool and then switch the tracks to Musical Mode.

axxeman
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by axxeman » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:03 pm

mashedmitten wrote:Yeah, make sure the correct tempo for each part is listed in the pool and then switch the tracks to Musical Mode.
Oh I think that we may have a crossed wire here. My tempo adjustments are all in the tempo map. All parts (tracks) have the same structure based on this. Sorry if I am being confusing here. There is no different tempo from one track to the next but they all speed up and slow down in the identical places.

Guest

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:06 pm

I know, but if you want to take a part from one tempo area to another, this is the way to do it.

axxeman
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by axxeman » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:11 pm

mashedmitten wrote:I know, but if you want to take a part from one tempo area to another, this is the way to do it.
Well that IS essentially what I am attempting to do. When you say 'part' do you mean the copied or duplicated area that you wish to paste elsewhere? I ask because that wouldn't necessarily show up in the pool being a copy and paste to and from clipboard function. That's why I think that I am missing something important here.

Guest

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:13 pm

axxeman wrote:I ask because that wouldn't necessarily show up in the pool being a copy and paste to and from clipboard function.
That's why I said this;
mashedmitten wrote:Look up Convert To Real Copy and do it to the copy to change it without changing the other.

axxeman
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by axxeman » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:21 pm

mashedmitten wrote:
axxeman wrote:I ask because that wouldn't necessarily show up in the pool being a copy and paste to and from clipboard function.
That's why I said this;
mashedmitten wrote:Look up Convert To Real Copy and do it to the copy to change it without changing the other.
I will check that tomorrow and get back if I am still stumped. Is this in the C5 manual or the Millward book? (Sorry but main PC offline till tomorrow so can't experiment. Had enough for one day as well :0)

Thanks for being so helpful and patient!
Last edited by axxeman on Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Guest

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:23 pm

C5 manual. Watching those videos will remove a lot of mystery about Cubase.

axxeman
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by axxeman » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:42 pm

mashedmitten wrote:C5 manual. Watching those videos will remove a lot of mystery about Cubase.
I'll watch those too!

thinkingcap
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 6459
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:27 pm

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by thinkingcap » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:14 am

axxeman wrote:When I say tempo mapped, I mean that there is a click track that was used as a timebase and I have inserted appropriate tempo shifts to keep the bars (arrange window ruler) in line with each beat 1 click. I hope that is what you meant...
If in essence, the click / tempo track adapts to the varying speed of the recorded audio, than that´s what I meant, yes. Though it would be more accurat to adjust every 1/4 beat.
If you´ve done that, make sure, the audio file starts on a first beat of any bar of the tempo track. If it starts somewhere in between, cut or add a piece and use "bounce selection" to create anew audio file, that atarts on beat 1 of bar x in your project window.
Now open the file in the sample editor. In the "Definition" tab switch to "manual adjust". The sample editor grid should now align to the bars and beats in the timeline. If it does, switch to "musical mode" on the same tab. Close the sample editor. Depending on how well your tempomap was created, you can now copy parts of that file, and it will automatically adapt to the actual project tempo. You will start hearing artefacts with too high tempo deviations though.
Cubase 5.1.1 (32bit) | Win 7 Pro x64 SP1 | RME Fireface UFX | RME Fireface 800 | Cubase Essential 5 | Win 7 Home Premium x64
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just took off my thinkingcap, it got filled up with too much crap...

axxeman
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by axxeman » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:03 pm

thinkingcap wrote:
axxeman wrote:When I say tempo mapped, I mean that there is a click track that was used as a timebase and I have inserted appropriate tempo shifts to keep the bars (arrange window ruler) in line with each beat 1 click. I hope that is what you meant...
If in essence, the click / tempo track adapts to the varying speed of the recorded audio, than that´s what I meant, yes. Though it would be more accurat to adjust every 1/4 beat.
If you´ve done that, make sure, the audio file starts on a first beat of any bar of the tempo track. If it starts somewhere in between, cut or add a piece and use "bounce selection" to create anew audio file, that atarts on beat 1 of bar x in your project window.
Now open the file in the sample editor. In the "Definition" tab switch to "manual adjust". The sample editor grid should now align to the bars and beats in the timeline. If it does, switch to "musical mode" on the same tab. Close the sample editor. Depending on how well your tempomap was created, you can now copy parts of that file, and it will automatically adapt to the actual project tempo. You will start hearing artefacts with too high tempo deviations though.
Right, I am in my main PC as of now so will investigate. Prior to making this thread, I was looking at copying and pasting the chorus in several parts. There are gaps big enough between the words and sub phrases that would allow me to do a little 'jigsaw' copy. The difference in BPM is low;

chorus 1 - 145.000 to 147.250 range
chorus 2 - 145.750 to 142.750 range
chorus 3 - 142.000 even (pretty much)

The guy who recorded the track has a midi file that he is sending over today which contains the tempo map embedded. That is likely to be more accurate than the one that I have created.

All the audio files are aligned to 1.1.1.0 so no starting at weird places.

Thanks.

thinkingcap
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 6459
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:27 pm

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by thinkingcap » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:15 pm

Doesn´t sound like too much tempo deviation.
I tried the procedure before I posted the above, so it should work. I think I´ve done that several times myself, though I usually cut and copy and paste. So let me know, if you got it working.
Cubase 5.1.1 (32bit) | Win 7 Pro x64 SP1 | RME Fireface UFX | RME Fireface 800 | Cubase Essential 5 | Win 7 Home Premium x64
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just took off my thinkingcap, it got filled up with too much crap...

axxeman
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Sample Editor Question in C5

Post by axxeman » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:07 pm

thinkingcap wrote:Doesn´t sound like too much tempo deviation.
I tried the procedure before I posted the above, so it should work. I think I´ve done that several times myself, though I usually cut and copy and paste. So let me know, if you got it working.
Well, I tell you, I tried and tried for 3 f*cking hours to no avail; wouldn't line up; managed to crash C5 3-4 times; lost my audio and needed total reboot...

Made tea to calm down and decided to try ONE more time. And it worked...but I don't know why. Here's what I did;

1 Opened vocal track in Sample Editor
2 Switched on Musical mode
3 Went to Audio Warp and selected free warp
4 Activated snap to 1/4 resolution
5 Dropped Warp Tab at every beat in the 8 bar section to be copied
6 Selected the area I wanted and added region
7 Went to chorus 1 and selected exactly the same area (bars and beats) and added region (2)
8 Returned to region 1 and selected it and copied
9 Back to region 2 and paste

Worked fine. I had duplicated the original track and was able to see in the arrange window that the two versions lined up perfectly beofre checking with playback.

Finally repeated the above through steps 7 and 9 for chorus 2 and then bounced as new selection

HIT SAVE!!!

Any comments welcome but I am glad it worked although I haven't actually learned anything much (I feel) for future use...

Axxe

Post Reply

Return to “Older Cubase versions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: doksan and 8 guests