Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

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bassjules
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Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

Okay. I did a re-install and finally got my Halion Sonic SE working (can't believe it doesn't automatically install with Cubase). I can hear sounds and add tracks, etc, and I enable recording for the track (I've tried both using the 'add midi track' and 'add instrument' options) and while I can hear my project and the VST instrument, nothing gets recorded. I'm hoping I'm just missing something obvious. I'm working on a project where I imported the wav files from Garageband and they show up fine and dandy. Why can't I record Halion VSTs? :evil: I'm using the virtual keyboard in Halion, and am on a MacBook Pro, btw.

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by ThePresent »

Solo the track that you want, render it to wav and import it in an audiotrack is one way to do this.
Or : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fw-gMEXS34
Last edited by ThePresent on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

Looking at that vid, it really doesn't help (can't 'freeze' the track I'm trying to record. Nothing is getting down on 'tape,' so to speak). So I have to 'import' a file made by a software that came with Cubase? Why does Halion Sonic SE come with this software if you can't use it but for just listening to the sounds with no record capability? Yeah, I can play along with my recording, but can't record the synth? :roll: Sorry, I'm getting frustrated. Been working on this for days. I'm still shocked that when I first installed Elements it didn't automatically install Halion. Erm, wouldn't a normal person want to install all the goodies that come with a package? Grr. I kept hearing great things about Halion S SE and it's one of the reasons I picked this software. I already have a drum software (Toontrack) so I didn't need that. I'm about to return this piece of crap to Guitar Center and research other DAWs. I've searched YT vids, this forum and tirelessly Googled. I'm talking hours (it's become a mission because it's now bugging the crap out of me). Way back I used Cubase LE and since the GUI and basic ways were familiar, I decided to try this. It's about to get returned.

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by SLD Music »

I hate to make obvious statements, but I'm confused about your problem. Are you saying you can't record the MIDI onto, say, an instrument track with Halion Sonic SE on it? MIDI is what you would record in that instance. If you want the actual AUDIO that Halion Sonic SE produces to be recorded, that's what ThePresent was addressing, but first you've got to get the MIDI recorded so that Halion can play back that MIDI from the track you recorded it on.

IF indeed that is what you are having trouble doing, are you SURE you've enabled the TRACK to record? Are you sure you aren't just turning on the monitor button? The monitor button looks like a little speaker and it is right NEXT to the record enable button, which, when enabled, is red with a black dot in the middle. Once that record enable button is on, AND you press record on the transport, you should be recording the notes you play via MIDI to the track with Halion Sonic on it--which will then play back through halion sonic when you play the project.

If you are doing all these things, then there is something ... very strange indeed going on. :)
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

SLD Music wrote:I hate to make obvious statements, but I'm confused about your problem. Are you saying you can't record the MIDI onto, say, an instrument track with Halion Sonic SE on it? MIDI is what you would record in that instance. If you want the actual AUDIO that Halion Sonic SE produces to be recorded, that's what ThePresent was addressing, but first you've got to get the MIDI recorded so that Halion can play back that MIDI from the track you recorded it on.

IF indeed that is what you are having trouble doing, are you SURE you've enabled the TRACK to record? Are you sure you aren't just turning on the monitor button? The monitor button looks like a little speaker and it is right NEXT to the record enable button, which, when enabled, is red with a black dot in the middle. Once that record enable button is on, AND you press record on the transport, you should be recording the notes you play via MIDI to the track with Halion Sonic on it--which will then play back through halion sonic when you play the project.

If you are doing all these things, then there is something ... very strange indeed going on. :)
I DEF have the track (tried both adding the track as 'midi' and 'instrument' to use Halion) record enabled and am clicking on the main record button. I've also tried turning off and on the monitor button. Like I've said, I've used Cubase to record regular instruments before with no issue. It seems to not like recording virtual instruments. That's why this is so frustrating.

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by SLD Music »

Ok. So you're trying to record MIDI. That's a good start. :)

So, when you do this, does it at least START to record an event (meaning is an event being created while the transport is recording), even if no MIDI is being written to that event? It SHOULD at least be creating an event DURING recording. If it's not that's one problem. If It IS and no MIDI is actually being recorded to that event, the event will disappear after recording and you'll be left with nothing. That's ANOTHER problem. So what happens exactly when you have your track record enabled, and you hit record on the transport?
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by SLD Music »

I know what the problem is. :)

You said you are trying to use the keyboard INSIDE Halion Sonic SE (by playing it with a mouse, I assume) to record the MIDI? If that's the case... it will not work. :)

Here's why... In Cubase the MIDI comes before the instrument. So no matter whether you are using an instrument track or the instrument rack and associated MIDI tracks, Cubase is going to record the MIDI you send it onto the track FIRST, and THEN it will send that MIDI on to the actual instrument (in this case, Halion Sonic SE). Since the instrument itself comes AFTER the MIDI track, if you use the keyboard of the instrument itself, it will trigger the sounds in Halion Sonic directly, but those notes are NOT transmitted back into Cubase so they can be recorded. If Halion Sonic SE had a MIDI out option this MIGHT be possible, but it does not have that feature, so the bottom line is that you can't play the actual keyboard on Halion Sonic SE and have it be recorded as MIDI in Cubase.

That all said, there is nothing wrong with the program. If you don't own a physical MIDI keyboard, and you plan on using virtual instruments, I HIGHLY recommend you get one--even if it's just a small 25 key model. Failing that, you can use the Virtual Keyboard feature in CUBASE itself (not in Halion Sonic) and you can get to that by going to the "Devices" Menu, and clicking on "Virtual Keyboard" (or hit Alt/(Option) K) this will open the virtual keyboard in the transport panel, which can be triggered with the QWERTYUI keys and the number keys above them. This input WILL be recorded into Cubase's midi and instrument tracks. The virtual keyboard can be set to cover more keys, and to change octaves as well. Read up on it in the manual. I would be shocked if the Elements version of Cubase didn't have the virtual keyboard... I'm almost sure it does.

Finally, of course, you can manually input notes into a new MIDI track in the key editor as well.
Last edited by SLD Music on Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

Now, I'm ticked that Guitar Center has a no return policy on opened software. I have a Casio keyboard. I don't desire to spend even more $ on this crap. Yes, this is becoming a big stinking pile of... well, you know. Why have a virtual keyboard you can't use? I might as well buy loops and edit them. That's cheaper. Grr. Sorry, I'm really, really ticked. The Halion was a selling point and it turns out it's useless without extra hardware.

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by SLD Music »

As I said, Cubase has it's own virtual keyboard.

Alt/Option K opens it. You can record with that. Sorry your ticked. This is basic, fundamental stuff. If you think you'll have better luck with a different DAW, go right ahead. We're just trying to help. :)
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

Perhaps I'm stupid and/or really, really slow, but what is the purpose of the Halion VST keyboard if it's of no use with recording? As far as trying a new DAW, sadly, GC has a no return policy on opened software so the buyer gets screwed. Yes, I did Option>K. It does not bring up a musical keyboard as I think of it (piano like keyboard).

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by ThePresent »

My advice, get a cheap midikeyboard. They all work, every DAW benefits if you use one. The only other options are using the virtual keyboard like SLD Music said or do what I did before I could afford a keyboard, click the notes into a midifile using your mouse.
Edit, try to hook up the Casio, in case it has midi capabilities.
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

ThePresent wrote:My advice, get a cheap midikeyboard. They all work, every DAW benefits if you use one. The only other options are using the virtual keyboard like SLD Music said or do what I did before I could afford a keyboard, click the notes into a midifile using your mouse.
Edit, try to hook up the Casio, in case it has midi capabilities.
Is there one you recommend? The old Casio I have is only Windows compatible. Edited to add: I found a driver, but how do I work it with Halion?

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by ThePresent »

My main board, the Emu is , I guess, out of production? Don't know for sure. And I have a very small one to fit with my laptop, a very cheap one by ION. They are both great for what they are meant for, the Emu being my main board and the other one when I'm travelling.
But I only know that particular boards, cannot say anything about other brands.
Maybe look at the signatures of the people that post on this forum, then you can see what they have and implicitely recommend ;)
But maybe try to make it a one time investment if you can spend the money. It doesn't have to be ridiculously expensive but it should give you what you need.
25, 49, 61 or 88 keys?
There definitely should be a modulation wheel and pitchbending wheel.
Some faders and knobs to send cc commands to your DAW are nice to have.
To many brands out there! ;)

About the casio, try to see if Cubase recognizes it after you installed the driver. Bring up a miditrack, look at the inputbox of the track and see if the casio shows up, or just push keys to see if midisignals are coming through.
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by Arjan P »

bassjules wrote:Perhaps I'm stupid and/or really, really slow, but what is the purpose of the Halion VST keyboard if it's of no use with recording?
It is very useful to try out sounds with HALion without having to play a real keyboard, or to select useful sounds for existing MIDI tracks.

BTW, I have an Akai LPK25 mini keyboard next to my desk, which is a great little touch sensitive keyboard for € 40,-.
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

Ok, it's recognizing the keyboard, but how do I actually get it to record what I play? I've tried both adding it as a Midi track and instrument track. Do I need to do something specific within Halion so I can use those sounds? Otherwise, I can't imagine why Halion would even have a purpose. Garageband recognizes and lets me record, but so far haven't figured out how to get Cubase to let me record sounds.

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by SLD Music »

::sigh::
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by ThePresent »

Select track and arm it for recording
Push record button
Play your music
Stop
Rewind
Push play button
Listen
When satisfied, render to wav
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

SLD Music wrote:::sigh::
???? Sorry, guy. No need to be rude. I'm interpreting the 'sigh' as a big eye roll at me. Sorry, I'm still trying to get my feet wet with this software. Don't respond if you are just going to be patronizing. The documentation for it is less than helpful and the VST aspect is not exactly user friendly.
Select track
Push record button
Play your music
Stop
Rewind
Push play button
Listen
When satisfied, render to wav
That is what I'm doing. That's why I'm getting so frustrated except that when I rewind there is no audio to hear and convert to wav. Yes, I'm selecting the track, enabling it to record and then pressing the main record button. I'm checking that the input for the track is the keyboard, etc.

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by ThePresent »

That is strange. it has to be something very simple that we do not see yet.
When you have recorded, do you see a midifile filled with notes?
Or maybe you have the monitorbutton activated?

Don't know much else to help you with.
Check this guy's youtube channel. Very clear basic information on how to operate Cubase.
It is very useful for anybody wanting to know cubase.

http://www.youtube.com/user/audiotekblog
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by Arjan P »

Do you see input activity (green bar moving up and down) next to the use dtrack when you play the keyboard?
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

The midi 'bars' show up in Garageband. I just wanted to make sure the issue wasn't the Casio, so I assume that's not the issue. As far as input activity, I get a red/orange bar on the transport panel but not green next to where the Click and Tempo info is. I'm thinking it's probably something simple that I'm over looking.

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by !@# »

Did you read the Getting Started manual? Which step did it go wrong?

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

I've found this page to be very helpful: http://stevepacey.hubpages.com/hub/Reco ... I-Keyboard

I did follow the getting started manual. Sigh. I don't know if it's a Mac issue or what. :/

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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by Arjan P »

bassjules wrote:Sigh. I don't know if it's a Mac issue or what. :/
That's unlikely: if this basic function wasn't working there would be a lot more noise about it here.

You need to make sure the keyboard output from your MIDI keyboard is recognized at the track in Cubase where you want it to record. It is hardly relevant whether it works in Garageband. Check your track inspector to see where it takes its MIDI inputs, and check the VST devices to see the keyboard is known by Cubase.
--- "If anyone owes it all to Bach, it's God" - Emil Cioran ---
SOFT: (All 64 bit) | WaveLab Pro 10.0.50 | Cubase Pro 11.0.0 | HALion 6.0 | Win10 Pro - SoundCloud
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Re: Not recording VST/Halion SE in CE6

Post by bassjules »

I'm getting 'midi in' activity & the software recognizes my keyboard. I'm about to give up. :( I also did the upgrade to 7.

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