Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

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aljames
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Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by aljames » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:09 pm

I've seen the 15 minute video on youtube regarding control room and it has been useful. However I'm not entirely sure how to go about the physical connections at the back on my interface, and then on toward the performers headphone.

Example setup: I want to record together

1. Vocalist
2. Guitarist,
3. Bassist
4. Drummer (playing E-Drum kit triggering VST superior drummer kit).

The available inputs/outputs on my MR816 CSX are all 8 inputs and outputs 3-8.

So, I obviously plug in a mic into channel 1, line guitar pickup into 2, line lead into 3. The drummer is triggering Superior Drummer via the Roland E-Drums.

So my big question is, how do I assign the outputs in the control room setup? I ask because ideally I want each performer to have a stereo headphone mix. So to use the vocalists headphone mix as an example, do I take the outputs 3 & 4 and into a single stereo jack (female for the headphone connection to plug into), i.e. a 'Y' cable? Or am I way off?

I think I will be able to work out the routing of cue sends but the physical outs to headphones is the bit I'm not getting.

Can anyone help please?

Thanks
Al
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Asgardao
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by Asgardao » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:49 pm

You can have up to 5 stereo mixes out of your MR816, 4 cues with monitoring. Assign outputs for your cue channels. If you want to use all 4 cue channels + monitor, one cue has to be assigned to a digital output. Go to Devices - Audio Hardware Setup and assign two of the cues to Phones 1 and 2. Make sure one of them is the digital output using cue (assuming you don't actually want to use the digital output). Now you have two players covered with headphones. For the remaining two, buy a headphone amplifier or two adapters 2 mono -> 1 stereo.
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by thinkingcap » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:29 am

aljames wrote:So my big question is, how do I assign the outputs in the control room setup? I ask because ideally I want each performer to have a stereo headphone mix. So to use the vocalists headphone mix as an example, do I take the outputs 3 & 4 and into a single stereo jack (female for the headphone connection to plug into), i.e. a 'Y' cable? Or am I way off?
If you´re talking about line outs - You plug them into a Headphone amp. The headphone amp feeds the headphones. You don´t plug the phones directly into the line outs.
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by aljames » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:40 am

Thanks for these two replies. So I dodn't realise I had to get a seperate heaphone amp.

Cant I just take a 'Y' twin mono jack cable out of the back of the interface, say channels 3&4 into a stereo mini jack female? And the singer plugs his headphones into that?

If I absolutely have to get a headphone amp, am I right in saying this would need to be one with four stereo inputs as well as outputs?

Appreciate the help
Thanks
Al
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by aljames » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:20 am

...and if I need a headphone amp, would this one do it? http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/HA8000.aspx

p.s. I thought the whole point of VST control room negated the need for a seperate headphone amp?
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by thinkingcap » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:13 am

aljames wrote:Cant I just take a 'Y' twin mono jack cable out of the back of the interface, say channels 3&4 into a stereo mini jack female? And the singer plugs his headphones into that?
You can do that, you just won´t get a very loud signal
aljames wrote:If I absolutely have to get a headphone amp, am I right in saying this would need to be one with four stereo inputs as well as outputs?
If you want 4 different mixes - yes
aljames wrote:..and if I need a headphone amp, would this one do it? http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/HA8000.aspx
Yes
aljames wrote:p.s. I thought the whole point of VST control room negated the need for a seperate headphone amp?
The controlroom does not negate the use of a headphone amp, just as it does not negate the need for a proper power amp for your speakers, or just like the mixer does not negate the need for a proper mic preamp on the input stage.
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by Puma0382 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:48 am

Fine words indeed, from that thinkingcap chap... ;)

Al - the main 'outs' of most multi-output Audio Interfaces are of course line-level signals only; no power amp component on these. If they did, they'd have a physical volume control of some sort, to adjust individual output.

thinkingcap has your answers.!

Good luck; should end up with a nice, flexible system for you (and musicians) to work with. The Control Room will really come in to its own.

:)

Bob
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by aljames » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:12 pm

Thanks Bob. And yes thinkingcap I hear you loud and clear. Thank you for that informed reply I appreciate it.

It makes a lot of sense now. One last question. If there are only four cue mixes within cubase, how would I work around having an extra two musicians wanting to be part of a cue mix?
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by thinkingcap » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:23 pm

aljames wrote:Thanks Bob. And yes thinkingcap I hear you loud and clear. Thank you for that informed reply I appreciate it.

It makes a lot of sense now. One last question. If there are only four cue mixes within cubase, how would I work around having an extra two musicians wanting to be part of a cue mix?
Use regular sends, or have different musicians share one mix...
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by Puma0382 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:29 pm

aljames wrote:Thanks Bob. And yes thinkingcap I hear you loud and clear. Thank you for that informed reply I appreciate it.

It makes a lot of sense now. One last question. If there are only four cue mixes within cubase, how would I work around having an extra two musicians wanting to be part of a cue mix?
A trip to Maplins for a (simple/passive) headphone splitter box..? Just need to get them to share the same feed somehow.

Plus, the frequently occurring request to SB of course, for a couple more CR sends (sorry, 'Cues'..), please...?
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by thinkingcap » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:47 pm

Puma0382 wrote:
aljames wrote:..- having an extra two musicians wanting to be part of a cue mix?
A trip to Maplins for a (simple/passive) headphone splitter box..? Just need to get them to share the same feed somehow.
Yeah reading helps... :oops:
The HA 800 has Splits for a second headphone on the back
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by galvinstephen » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:54 pm

Good question actually.
I ahve always thought it odd that these interfaces - Fireface, Saffire Pro40, etc. have 1/4" mono jacks on the back. Why not XLR's?
For that matter, if, as the designers claim the outputs are to used for headphones mixes or cue mixes, why not have four, five or six headphone outputs on the interface, with suitable software routing?
I suspect the manufacturers just copy each other without thinking too deeply about how people actually use the products. :roll:
Another one: Why do so many interfaces have just two Hi-Z inputs, and 8 line-level? Could it be that they have not envisaged the possibilty that a band night have three guitar-players or four? Five? How many bands have a vocalist, bass player and three synthesizers? Ha. [Yes I am sure there must be some. :roll: ]
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by Puma0382 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:27 pm

thinkingcap wrote:
Puma0382 wrote:
aljames wrote:..- having an extra two musicians wanting to be part of a cue mix?
A trip to Maplins for a (simple/passive) headphone splitter box..? Just need to get them to share the same feed somehow.
Yeah reading helps... :oops:
The HA 800 has Splits for a second headphone on the back
No need for it really, was there - I had you down as an alright guy til that... :o

You're actually expecting folk (other than the OP) to read and ingest the entire contents/detail of embedded links (especially any that you post..). The conceit is beyond me.

Still, feeling better now..? Good for you.
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by Asgardao » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:14 pm

Test your equipment before purchasing a headphone amp if you don't have any other use for it. At least my AKG K240 Studio phones could blow my ears away when connected to MR816's regular outputs. You'll probably do fine with just Y-adapters.
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by aljames » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:03 pm

It's too late unfortunately. I've purchased the behringer HA8000 based on info I got on this thread that suggested I would definately need one. It's not the end of the world was only £97

Besides the HA400 will not do the job as there is only one stereo input ye? The HA8000 has 8 stereo ins.

Al
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by Diggers70 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:43 pm

aljames wrote:...and if I need a headphone amp, would this one do it? http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/HA8000.aspx

p.s. I thought the whole point of VST control room negated the need for a seperate headphone amp?
I've used one of these before and if memory serves there are indeed 8 outputs with separate output volumes. But there are only two ins. So you would only be able to generate 2 distinct cue mixes fed to this device. Each output on the headphone amp is switchable between the A and B input. So if you were hoping for four individual headphone mixes this won't do but it will of course allow volume control of the total mix level for each output.

And the one I used was really noisy, but can't be absolutely sure that it wasn't noise BEFORE the headphone amp.

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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by aljames » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:52 pm

This unit has 8 x stereo ins on the back which when operational, render the two stereo ins disabled. So this unit will in fact do all four separate cue mixes yes?
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by Diggers70 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:57 pm

Ah ok .. sorry that seems to have been a curve that I threw you .. yes it indeed looks like you're right .. I don't remember the unit I used having individual ins but indeed that looks like the case (sorry for any confusion/anxiety caused) :)

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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by aljames » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:19 pm

No worries. Thanks anyway for your input.

Al
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by thinkingcap » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:04 am

galvinstephen wrote:Good question actually.
I ahve always thought it odd that these interfaces - Fireface, Saffire Pro40, etc. have 1/4" mono jacks on the back. Why not XLR's?
Probably because you can fit more 1/4" jacks on an interface of 1 RU, than you can XLRs
galvinstephen wrote:For that matter, if, as the designers claim the outputs are to used for headphones mixes or cue mixes, why not have four, five or six headphone outputs on the interface, with suitable software routing?
I suspect the manufacturers just copy each other without thinking too deeply about how people actually use the products. :roll:
Some people use Headphone amps, in the recording room, so that the musician can set his volume (or even mix) himself, without having to tell the recording engineer, or go into the room, where the interfcae is located. Maybe the way you use products must not necessarily be the way "how people actually use the products". I
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by thinkingcap » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:04 am

Sorry, Puma0382 I think you misunderstood. I was talkin about myself, because I did not read it thoroughly enough (therefore the :oops: , and not the :roll: ... Was not directed at you or anyone else.
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by aljames » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:24 pm

What's the lowest latency reverb out there if I wanted to add some in their cue mixes? Also will the channel strip compressor in C7 add any noticeable delay and if so is it better to add this as an insert or send?
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by Split » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:37 pm

I think Room Works is a Zero Latency Reverb.

Click on plugin Info and you can see the latency amounts for all your plugins, clicking on the column headers will sort them in order.
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Re: Setting up Cue Sends - help please?

Post by aljames » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:02 pm

No matter how low a buffer setting I set it to I still seem to get a kind of doubling effect when using room works. And that's at 2ms. I am doing it by inserting on the channel not the input channel. Correct way to go about it?
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