How do you change the input phase

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13 isme lucky number
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How do you change the input phase

Post by 13 isme lucky number » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:16 pm

I am using two microphones to mic a snare drum (top & bottom) and cannot locate info on how to change the input phase in the CB AI6 documentation.
I'm sure that this must somehow be possible, can any one clue me in?

Thanks
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Re: How do you change the input phase

Post by thinkingcap » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:29 am

13 isme lucky number wrote:I am using two microphones to mic a snare drum (top & bottom) and cannot locate info on how to change the input phase in the CB AI6 documentation.
I'm sure that this must somehow be possible,
No, it´s not, unless you use som plugin to do so.
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Split
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Re: How do you change the input phase

Post by Split » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:39 am

In the old days, I used to keep an XLR lead wired XRL at one end, for polarity reversal. For the odd occasions that required it!!!

Marked as such of course :P
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Re: How do you change the input phase

Post by 13 isme lucky number » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:46 pm

Split wrote:In the old days, I used to keep an XLR lead wired XRL at one end, for polarity reversal. For the odd occasions that required it!!!

Marked as such of course :P
Okay so are you saying it is an obsolete technique?

Thanks
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Split
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Re: How do you change the input phase

Post by Split » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:26 pm

13 isme lucky number wrote:
Split wrote:In the old days, I used to keep an XLR lead wired XRL at one end, for polarity reversal. For the odd occasions that required it!!!

Marked as such of course :P
Okay so are you saying it is an obsolete technique?

Thanks
No, not at all... the need for a polarity reverse lead is? (although still handy for the odd thing)

The big versions of Cubase have a "phase" button on every channel input and output.
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Re: How do you change the input phase

Post by 13 isme lucky number » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:58 pm

Aha that is what I was wondering...if the more expensive versions had this feature.
As far as why it's needed I don't know, It's just that the books I have read on recording say that's how to make the snare sound better, hey I'm a drummer what do you expect :D
I will probably need to upgrade to the full fledged version of Cubase, I was just trying out the AI since it came with a Yamaha keyboard.
Thank you so much for your replies,
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Re: How do you change the input phase

Post by halljack » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:01 pm

Split wrote:In the old days, I used to keep an XLR lead wired XRL at one end, for polarity reversal. For the odd occasions that required it!!!
Me to when playing Live. You could make an adapter or
just reverse Pins 2 & 3 on a Mic cable for the bottom snare mic. ;)

And like everyone has said Cubase versions 4-5-6-7 all have phase reverse.

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Re: How do you change the input phase

Post by Split » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:45 pm

13 isme lucky number wrote:Aha that is what I was wondering...if the more expensive versions had this feature.
As far as why it's needed I don't know, It's just that the books I have read on recording say that's how to make the snare sound better, hey I'm a drummer what do you expect :D
I will probably need to upgrade to the full fledged version of Cubase, I was just trying out the AI since it came with a Yamaha keyboard.
Thank you so much for your replies,
When miking the top and bottom of a snare you need to reverse one of the mics (to the other) otherwise the snare will sound thin due to cancellation, mainly of the lower frequencies.

If you think about it, when you hit the top skin, the skin moves away from the top mic, the bottom skin moves towards the bottom mic, when you mix the two signals together you get whats called cancellation occurring.

Also when multi micing a kit, all the spot mics should really be "phase" checked against the overheads at least!

http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/acoustics/phase.htm
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Re: How do you change the input phase

Post by 13 isme lucky number » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:55 am

Split,
Thanks a bunch, I checked out the link...Quite helpful. And thanks for the bit about the overheads I will have to check that out too.
How is that done :?:

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Re: How do you change the input phase

Post by Split » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:16 am

The old school way is, once you have found a sweet spot for the overheads, take say the a kik mic and swap the "phase" (polarity) whilst monitoring the overhead and kik mics whilst the drummer is playing the kik. listen to the result and pick the phase position that gives the most low end. Repeat for all spot mics, picking the best sound for each. once you have gone through all the spot mics against the O/H's job done.

That is a simplified explanation, obviously you will have sweet spotted all the mics first. Some of us like to make sure the primary kik mic results in a positive signal to the speakers so the initial movement of the speaker cone is a forwards (push) movement, so if the in phase sound results in a phase swap of the front kik mic then reversing the O/H phase and unselecting the phase on the kik will ensure that.

With the introduction of daws, it's now possible to phase align the mics visually, I tend not to bother as that technique results in the removing of the sense of distance with further away mics! but is still a valid technique for some.

If you are using room mics as well, pick the best phase for bottom end response against the overheads.
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Re: How do you change the input phase

Post by 13 isme lucky number » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:45 am

Hi Split,
Thanks a million!
I really appreciate the help
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