Nuage

General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics.
PMedia
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Nuage

Post by PMedia » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:53 pm

Why is no one talking about this yet on this forum. Isn't this exactly what we've all been hoping for such a looonnnggg time. Finally a dedicated Yamaha Steinberg alliance for Nuendo.

Boom!

Well done steinberg/yamaha looks really impressive looking forward to official pricing. So far the rumoured pricing suggests $17,000 for basic 16 fader + Master section and extra 16 fader packs for $12,000 That would be $29K for a fully fledge 32 Fader console and compare that to an icon of just 24 fader at $45K I think its WELL worth it.

I really hope this is a start of gaining more ground in the industry for Nuendo.

Come on guys gave we should be swinging from the rafters. Awesome, so excited!!!!!

I'll be very serious about getting into this for my company.
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Re: Nuage

Post by Dog and Pony » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:50 am

Agreed, Nuage looks amazing and I too will be looking into this to replace the aging Euphonix MC Pro's we're running. John.
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Re: Nuage

Post by TimoWildenhain » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:45 am

Hello,

yes it's indeed a good idea to make a separate Nuage forum. Let's see how this develops (number of posts). Nuage is a fully integrated system solution and many parts of the new Nuendo mixer have also been designed to fit the Nuage overall layout. There is no pricing yet, but it won't be more expensive than comparable products currently available on the market. Yamaha will show some prototypes on selected events and exhibitions within the next months.

Thanks,
Timo
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Rotund
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Re: Nuage

Post by Rotund » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:44 am

Yes, these controllers finally close the protools gap.
To me, that was thee one area where PT had a major advantage...
Lots of impressive looking controllers that actually function well.
No longer the case.

Wondering if there will be a slightly scaled down version made available?
I think the price (rumors) is the reason that this topic isn't seeing much action.

Congrats Steinberg, this is definitely a giant leap for all Nuendo kind.
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Re: Nuage

Post by csd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:43 am

Timo,

Will Nuage work without the Dante card and I/O, or at least with just the Dante card?

Will we be able to buy just a master unit and start from there?

Granted the price rumors may not be accurate, but I'm sure they aren't far off.
That pits a base Nuage system directly against the Avid/Euphonix MC Pro, and not far from a D-Command. Honestly, that will be a very tough sell for all but the most dedicated Nuendo rooms here in the US.

Most studios where Nuage is most likely to sell are small to mid-sized post rooms in regional markets, not established LA post houses. And even those are already heavily dependent on ProTools. The MC Pro offers excellent integration with both ProTools and Nuendo via Eucon. Nuage sounds like it is HUI with everything but Nuendo. That's already one strike against Nuage.

For that price range, I, and I think most studios will have a hard time risking a Nuage/Nuendo dedicated install vs. a proven and industry compatible MC Pro/ProTools combo with Nuendo as an extra DAW.

I hope Steinberg/Yamaha have considered this and the price rumors are on the high end. I like the Nuage concept and general design, but price will end up being the main selling point, or non-selling point given the competition and Nuendo's lack of presence in the post market here in the US.

Thanks.
Last edited by csd on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nuage

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:44 am

Csd, spot on.
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Re: Nuage

Post by TimoWildenhain » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:48 am

csd wrote:Timo,

Will Nuage work without the Dante card and I/O, or at least with just the Dante card?

Will we be able to buy just a master unit and start from there?

Granted the price rumors may not be accurate, but I'm sure they aren't far off.
That pits a base Nuage system directly against the Avid/Euphonix MC Pro, and not far from a D-Command. Honestly, that will be a very tough sell for all but the most dedicated Nuendo rooms here in the US.

Most studios where Nuage is most likely to sell are small to mid-sized post rooms in regional markets, not established LA post houses. And even those are already heavily dependent on ProTools. The MC Pro offers excellent integration with both ProTools and Nuendo via Eucon. Nuage sounds like it is HUI with everything but Nuendo. That's already one strike against Nuage.

For that price range, I, and I think most studios will have a hard time risking a Nuage/Nuendo dedicated install vs. a proven and industry compatible MC Pro/ProTools combo with Nuendo as an extra DAW.

I hope Steinberg/Yamaha have considered this and the price rumors are on the high end. I like the Nuage concept and general design, but price will end up being the main selling point, or non-selling point given the competition and Nuendo's lack of presence in the post market here in the US.

Thanks.
Hello csd,

Nuage works without Danke card, but you have to differentiate what "Nuage" means in this context. Nuage as a controller can be used via the common ethernet network (Cisco hub is recommended).

The audio interfaces can also be used on a common ethernet port. In that case, the DVS (dante virtual soundcard, software installation) is required to establish the connection to the interface. It acts as a driver. For a better performance a Dante Soundcard (hardware) is recommended. It guarantees the maximum performance and reliability, as its a proprietary connection without having the computer OS involved heavily. At least if you would plan to use more than one interface, I would strongly recommend to take the dante hardware network card.

Regarding the Nuage sections, it's planned to offer them separately, so you can either purchase the fader unit, the master unit or both in conjunction with each other.

Pricing hasn't been officially announced by Yamaha yet, so I cannot say something on this currently.

The difference to EuCon is that Nuage is not just a controller that uses a protocol in-between for translating the commands. Nuage has been designed around Nuendo, including view functions and other features that are especially made for that integration, for example dedicated buttons, labelings, direct access to pre-configured monitoring etc. For example, Nuage offers specific window layouts that make dual-channel operation with Nuendo 6 very easy.

Thanks,
Timo
Timo Wildenhain - Head of Business Unit
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Re: Nuage

Post by csd » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:10 am

Thanks for the reply Timo.

That sounds promising. I can see the need for the Dante card over general ethernet - that makes sense. Being able to work without the I/O (or add the I/O later if desired), also makes it more flexible for those of us with RME setups, etc.

There is a lot I like about Nuage over the other options - dedicated Nuendo integration; the visual layout with standard 24" LCDs (would work perfectly with my setup), size and form factor seems just right and the modular options seem well-thought out.

I look forward to the final release, and official pricing.

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Re: Nuage

Post by TimoWildenhain » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:03 pm

csd wrote:Thanks for the reply Timo.

That sounds promising. I can see the need for the Dante card over general ethernet - that makes sense. Being able to work without the I/O (or add the I/O later if desired), also makes it more flexible for those of us with RME setups, etc.

There is a lot I like about Nuage over the other options - dedicated Nuendo integration; the visual layout with standard 24" LCDs (would work perfectly with my setup), size and form factor seems just right and the modular options seem well-thought out.

I look forward to the final release, and official pricing.
You're welcome. I think official pricing will be announced sometime soon. Please note that the monitors
are not part of the system delivered. We recommend the 24" HP monitor series, but you can freely choose your preferred manufacturer (at least it has to be a 24").

Thanks,
Timo
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Re: Nuage

Post by Dog and Pony » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:10 pm

The difference to EuCon is that Nuage is not just a controller that uses a protocol in-between for translating the commands. Nuage has been designed around Nuendo, including view functions and other features that are especially made for that integration, for example dedicated buttons, labelings, direct access to pre-configured monitoring etc. For example, Nuage offers specific window layouts that make dual-channel operation with Nuendo 6 very easy.
This all makes sense for Nuendo but understand that most of us in the regional market in the US tend to jump between different DAW's depending on our needs. For instance, we occasionally get a session that requires ProTools or sometimes we find Logic to be a more useful tool to create a certain sound. Eucon gives us the flexibility to jump between these tools and get the same level of integration. Nuage looks very nice and I'm excited to test it out but the fact that it uses HUI for other programs is a drawback. Like the others, I'm hoping pricing reflects the realistic market for a Nuendo/Nuage based room; if the price is right then we will be very interested. John.
5 systems with N8, N10, Nuage, Artist Series, Faderport 16, Windows 10, MacOSX 10.12 and many more toys.

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Re: Nuage

Post by csd » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:08 am

+1 to Dog and Pony's post.
TimoWildenhain wrote:
You're welcome. I think official pricing will be announced sometime soon. Please note that the monitors
are not part of the system delivered. We recommend the 24" HP monitor series, but you can freely choose your preferred manufacturer (at least it has to be a 24").

Thanks,
Timo
I am hoping you will be able to tell us that the early rumors of 18-22k euros are way off.
If distributors use the current conversion rates, that puts it at $24k-28k USD. That's more than an Icon D-Command ES or MC Pro. And an MC Pro runs Eucon with multiple DAWs, and most rooms are already going to be ProTools, so this pricing would make Euphonix and Icon systems seem like a bargain - probably the opposite of the intended effect I presume.

$10-12k for a base fader + master system (without I/O) would likely sell fairly well in the US, but I fear at $25k Yamaha would be lucky to sell a dozen units in the US.

Perhaps Yamaha has leaked high prices to surprise the market and build much more excitement when a more realistic price is announced?

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Re: Nuage

Post by PMedia » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:30 am

Far be it from me to stick up for Steinberg because they have peeee'd off over the years but what option did they have? They can't use Eucon because Avid own it. And Avid aren't about to let the main opposition integrate Eucon into a new console that could undermine Avid entire Hardware department.

So the only other option is Hui isn't it?

Icon is ProTools only? so Nuage is one better - offering Hui

I'd say the minute they CAN???? strike a licencing deal with Avid to run Eucon then Boom! software update and we'll all be very very happy

Price wise yes I'd love it to be as cheep as I can get. But yamaha are not going to give it away but hopefully they will price it very competitively

Also is Hui really that bad? I use Eucon in my MC Mix and Control and to be honest 95% of what I use it for can be done in HUI. People who use Pro Tools as there main DAW will never buy a Nuage when they can already buy an Icon or MC Pro. And they use Pro Tools not because of their choose of console but because they like the software. Nuage will sell to the market like me who use primary Nuendo and sometime protools.
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Re: Nuage

Post by PMedia » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:32 am

csd wrote:Perhaps Yamaha has leaked high prices to surprise the market and build much more excitement when a more realistic price is announced?
Let hope that true
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Re: Nuage

Post by MattiasNYC » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:44 am

PMedia wrote:Also is Hui really that bad? I use Eucon in my MC Mix and Control and to be honest 95% of what I use it for can be done in HUI.
I think you sort of have a good point. I can totally see how HUI in a lot of cases is just as good as Eucon. Certainly if all one is doing is automating using faders on a device like the MC Mix then it's probably fine. I think the problem is though that at that price range (Nuage's) HUI won't be good enough. At that price range I'd expect much tighter integration. After all, if you can get just as much out of a HUI device then why buy Nuage?

I think pricing will be very determining of success in the US.
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Re: Nuage

Post by csd » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:09 am

PMedia wrote:Far be it from me to stick up for Steinberg because they have peeee'd off over the years but what option did they have? They can't use Eucon because Avid own it. And Avid aren't about to let the main opposition integrate Eucon into a new console that could undermine Avid entire Hardware department.

So the only other option is Hui isn't it?
It doesn't matter what Steinberg's protocol options were. They have to compete with the existing market by making their controller and DAW more attractive in every aspect. Currently in the US (I can't speak for other markets), that makes price the number one consideration. And since Nuendo isn't widely used and accepted in the US, compatibility with other DAWs, particularly ProTools becomes the second most critical consideration.

But Nuage is really just a Nuendo controller. If Nuage were a Eucon controller it would have an uphill battle at any price point, but as a proprietary controller for Nuendo, it has an even bigger challenge to find a customer base.

Basically, I see Yamaha/Steinberg having only one real option for selling in the US - price it to undercut both the MC Pro and Tango by a good margin, and low enough that some Avid Artist series studios will take interest.
They aren't just selling Nuage and a proprietary protocol, they are having to sell studios on the risk of banking their business model on Nuendo and basically putting ProTools on the sideline.

I wish them luck, and hopefully Nuage and Nuendo 6 will be successful. I like what I see in it's integration with Nuendo (esp. visual mixer channel mapping to standard 24" monitors we already have in house), but I don't like the price rumors I'm hearing, compared to just sticking with less risky Eucon options.

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Re: Nuage

Post by Fredo » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:52 am

Eucon -On the side of the Controller- is owned by Avid and exclusive to Avid.
Eucon -On the side of the DAW- is open for Third Parties. (Mainly because it was developed by Steinberg/Euphonix)


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Re: Nuage

Post by Dog and Pony » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:09 pm

I'm not suggesting Yamaha and Steinberg shouldn't make a profit off of Nuage, I'm merely pointing out that it would appear their best bet for gaining a bigger share of the market with Nuage is to price aggressively. Hopefully the cost of development is not such that they need to keep the price high; one would assume that a company the size of Yamaha can afford to develop a product such as this somewhat inexpensively and absorb a longer time period for recovering that investment. If that is the case then they should be able to offer the Nuage at a lower price point in an effort to grab a bigger market share. Any investment that I or any other studio makes in a product like Nuage is a two way street, Yamaha needs to profit but I need their product to survive and thrive. In my opinion, at a high price point the chances of survival for Nuage in the US are fairly slim.
As for HUI, I could work with it! John.
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Re: Nuage

Post by PMedia » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:28 am

csd wrote:Basically, I see Yamaha/Steinberg having only one real option for selling in the US - price it to undercut both the MC Pro and Tango by a good margin, and low enough that some Avid Artist series studios will take interest.
They aren't just selling Nuage and a proprietary protocol,
Out of interest is Tango Hui Based?
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Re: Nuage

Post by PMedia » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:31 am

Fredo wrote:Eucon -On the side of the Controller- is owned by Avid and exclusive to Avid.
Eucon -On the side of the DAW- is open for Third Parties. (Mainly because it was developed by Steinberg/Euphonix)


Fredo
Yeah its such a pitty Eucon wasn't also somehow kept third party for hardware. The HUI people? are they around - who are they and couldn't we get version 2 Hui that could compete with Eucon?
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Re: Nuage

Post by PMedia » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:35 am

Dog and Pony wrote:I'm not suggesting Yamaha and Steinberg shouldn't make a profit off of Nuage, I'm merely pointing out that it would appear their best bet for gaining a bigger share of the market with Nuage is to price aggressively. Hopefully the cost of development is not such that they need to keep the price high; one would assume that a company the size of Yamaha can afford to develop a product such as this somewhat inexpensively and absorb a longer time period for recovering that investment. If that is the case then they should be able to offer the Nuage at a lower price point in an effort to grab a bigger market share. Any investment that I or any other studio makes in a product like Nuage is a two way street, Yamaha needs to profit but I need their product to survive and thrive. In my opinion, at a high price point the chances of survival for Nuage in the US are fairly slim.
As for HUI, I could work with it! John.
If it is priced well then a studio like me will get one but keep my MC Mix & Control if I want Eucon for my Protools stuff. Lets be honest Producer wont give a sh%^$ what you have as long as you say yes we use Pro Tools and Nuendo and look at all the pretty flashing lights.........
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Re: Nuage

Post by Dog and Pony » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:49 pm

Lets be honest Producer wont give a sh%^$ what you have as long as you say yes we use Pro Tools and Nuendo and look at all the pretty flashing lights.........
True!
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Re: Nuage

Post by PMedia » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:58 am

Hi Timo any update on pricing please?
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Re: Nuage

Post by PMedia » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:49 pm

Sorry guys but this is crazy. Why have you not released any Pricing yet? You get the DAW communities attention and have the spot light on Steinberg for all of 2-3 days and then let it go off the boil. This is product launch suicide. No matter how good any new product is people want to know "How Much".

When Apple release iphone 5 its here are the cool new features and here is the price when Toyota launch a new car they say The Price. But no not Steinberg we are to cool for that

Your marketing Dept needs to be fired.

Where's the big launch, where's the big name endorsement, Hans Zimmer uses Cubase Heaps, Big name post house... Where's the Price, Where's the competition to win one, When can we buy one, Create the hype............!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????????

Its now a month later and people especially the US market will be like "Oh yeah what happened to that new controller.. yawn

I get all your Steinberg email news updates each week and its not even in them. THAT'S YOUR OWN COMMUNITY!

Marketing 101
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Re: Nuage

Post by bilekt3 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:05 am

PMedia wrote:Sorry guys but this is crazy. Why have you not released any Pricing yet? You get the DAW communities attention and have the spot light on Steinberg for all of 2-3 days and then let it go off the boil. This is product launch suicide. No matter how good any new product is people want to know "How Much".

When Apple release iphone 5 its here are the cool new features and here is the price when Toyota launch a new car they say The Price. But no not Steinberg we are to cool for that

Your marketing Dept needs to be fired.

Where's the big launch, where's the big name endorsement, Hans Zimmer uses Cubase Heaps, Big name post house... Where's the Price, Where's the competition to win one, When can we buy one, Create the hype............!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????????

Its now a month later and people especially the US market will be like "Oh yeah what happened to that new controller.. yawn

I get all your Steinberg email news updates each week and its not even in them. THAT'S YOUR OWN COMMUNITY!

Marketing 101
Nicely said. +1 - Same for Nuendo 6 price...
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Re: Nuage

Post by PMedia » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:30 am

Please can we have an update on Nuage
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