Locking automation data

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misjavw
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Locking automation data

Post by misjavw »

Is there a way to lock specific automation data? Especially in group tracks in which the automation data is not following any events. It would be great if you could select automation data and select "lock".

I know I could lock the group track but that locks all of the data in the track. I want to lock the data in a specific range or selection, keeping the other data in the track unlocked.
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by ErikG »

Automation on gropus are never following any movement of events. To move automation data on groups you have to move it intentionally.
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by misjavw »

ErikG wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:48 am
Automation on gropus are never following any movement of events. To move automation data on groups you have to move it intentionally.
Yes, I know that. But that is not my issue. I am looking for a way to lock selected automation data, or a range of automation data in a group track. For example: I have a 1 hour program with group level automation. I want to lock the level automation from 20 to 25 minutes. All the other level automation on that group track should not be locked. Is there a way to lock selected automation or a specific range of automation on (group) tracks?
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MattiasNYC
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by MattiasNYC »

Sorry to not answer the question directly, but why do you need to do that? Are you looking to avoid editing data by accident or avoid writing new data when automating?
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by ErikG »

Odd but interesting use case, I am also curious about how you would use it.
I don’t think, but have never tried to lock single data points. If it would be possible it would be using the info line lock data entry. However I don’t think it exists for automation data points but only for “regular events”.
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by miguelnunes »

misjavw wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:01 am
Is there a way to lock specific automation data? Especially in group tracks in which the automation data is not following any events. It would be great if you could select automation data and select "lock".

I know I could lock the group track but that locks all of the data in the track. I want to lock the data in a specific range or selection, keeping the other data in the track unlocked.
Don't know the purpose of your workflow, but the question is intriguing.
have you tried to add a "ghost group" for that purpose? just as a workaround?
I can understand the whole picture, but you do have snapshots, freezes and and many other ways to preserve that perfect mix.
Pinpoint locked automation is intriguing tho..

Cheers

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Re: Locking automation data

Post by misjavw »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:16 pm
Sorry to not answer the question directly, but why do you need to do that? Are you looking to avoid editing data by accident or avoid writing new data when automating?
I was looking for this functionality when doing the following:

I have a timeline with 4 separate episodes of a tv show (15 minutes each). There is group volume automation for each of the 4 shows. Then I received a request for a re-edit in episode 2, inserting 20 seconds of additional material. So, I inserted the extra 20 seconds of program in the show by splitting all the events at the specified timecode location, then selecting all events (audio AND the group automation) beyond this split point and moving them exactly 20 seconds to the right. To make sure this doesn't effect the events for episodes 3 and 4 I locked all the events from those episodes. Unfortunately it is not possible to lock the group automation for these episodes so it moves 20 seconds to the right as well, resulting in that automation being out of sync.

Of course I could un-select the automation for episodes 3 and 4 but it would be great if I wouldn't have to do that and simply lock that data the same way you can lock events.
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by misjavw »

ErikG wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:36 pm
If it would be possible it would be using the info line lock data entry. However I don’t think it exists for automation data points but only for “regular events”.
Correct, there is no "lock" option in the info line when you select automation event(s).
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by MattiasNYC »

I'm not understanding why the automation for episodes 3/4 moved as well even though it wasn't locked. Was that area (for ep 3/4) also highlighted? If it was then isn't the solution to simply not select that area when making a range selection for editing?
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by misjavw »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:23 pm
I'm not understanding why the automation for episodes 3/4 moved as well even though it wasn't locked. Was that area (for ep 3/4) also highlighted? If it was then isn't the solution to simply not select that area when making a range selection for editing?
Yes, the automation was highlighted because I used the function "Select all beyond cursor". I use this function often to quickly select all events that are beyond the current cursor position. When events are locked they are selected (Highlighted in red), but they won't move when you move other events (in this case: the events from episode 2).

I guess I just have to un-highlight the automation data manually, or select the events I DO want to move using the range select tool (2).
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by Fredo »

You can insert a range of silence within the timeline, that way you don't need to move everything that is to the right side of your insert.
And by inserting silence (I think that is what it is called - not in front of my system now) you also avoid these problems with automation (or anything else) not moving along.

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Re: Locking automation data

Post by Fredo »

From the manual:
Inserting Silence
You can insert empty track space from the start of the selection range. The length of the silence equals the length of the selection range.

To insert silence, select Edit > Range > Insert Silence.

Events to the right of the selection range start are moved to the right to make room. Events that are intersected by the selection range start are split, and the right section is moved to the right.

HTH
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by misjavw »

Thanks for the tip Fredo, I am familiar with the "Insert silence" function, but that doesn't work when there are locked events to the right of the range. I want to move a specific range of the automation without moving the automation that is to the right of it. By inserting silence for a specific range you move everything that is to the right of this range, to the right. If there are any events on the right side that are locked, they won't move (which is what I want because I want them to remain at their location). But it is not possible to lock any group track automation data, resulting in it moving to the right as well, (which I don't want).

My question remains: is it possible to lock specific (selected) automation events in a group track?
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by Fredo »

Then the answer is no I am afraid.

Fredo

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Re: Locking automation data

Post by ErikG »

No it isn’t possible, but the workaround like Fredo mentioned above is to do the reverse. First avoid locking events, then insert time at the needed point in time, then delete time between the different parts (same length of course).

Or use the reconform tool, but that requires that you know how to create simpl dummy EDLs. Or just get the actual EDLs needed in the first place. That’s what we do 100% of the time.
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by Fredo »

The reconform tool was my second suggestion, but Erik beat me to it.


I think you can even do with a simple EDL that you write yourself. No need for the original EDL me thinks.
If you devise the project timeline into big chunks (if this is possible at all), regardless of how many smaller bits are in between these chunks, then these blocks can be moved with minimal EDL information, no?

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Re: Locking automation data

Post by MattiasNYC »

Still seems to me that just selecting only what needs to move is the easiest solution. I mean, how is that not the fastest way to accomplish this goal?
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by Getalife2 »

I enjoy reading threads like this one just to remind myself of how delighted I am to work on straight up music projects!

Understand that I have the greatest respect for you genuine post guys, I'm just happy it's you and not me dealing with this!
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by ErikG »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:06 pm
Still seems to me that just selecting only what needs to move is the easiest solution. I mean, how is that not the fastest way to accomplish this goal?
Yes with a single edit a manual fix is almost always fastest.
And with a single edit I would use insert time and delete time.
It is very simple add time where needed remove time where not and everything stays in sync.

Why not just select and move?
Because you want all your automation every parameter to move along in the selection.
For me with 20+ groups with many parameters on each and 10 or so fx channels with plenty of automation that just isn’t doable.

If you don’t have or use automated fx channels groups or vcas then yes just moving things are best.
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by misjavw »

The reconform tool could be a solution, but in our workflow we never use EDL's. We only receive AAF's from our clients and I think most of the video editors don't know how to handle EDL.

As my issue usually involves multiple edits instead of just one edit / insert, I think that manual selection of the events that have to be moved (including group automation) is the way to go for now. But it would be a nice option to be able to lock automation data in the same way you can lock events. This way you can prevent moving it accidentally. Surely, a feature like that wouldn't be so difficult to implement, would it?
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by The Sound Post »

If I were in that situation, I would just delete the other 3 episodes and save as a new project. Insert silence, done. You would end up with 2 projects, but hey, it's fast and failsafe.
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misjavw
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Re: Locking automation data

Post by misjavw »

The Sound Post wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:31 am
If I were in that situation, I would just delete the other 3 episodes and save as a new project. Insert silence, done. You would end up with 2 projects, but hey, it's fast and failsafe.
That'll work i guess. :lol:
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