Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

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Fra'
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Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:16 am

Hello
My name is Francesco and I am new in this forum.
I'm Italian and I do not speak English well. I hope you will forgive my mistakes.

I have Cubase 6 (Full), and I have a Mac 8 core (2 Xenon 5400, 3.8 GHz - last 2008) with Snowleopard. My sound card is the Motu2408Mk3, PCIe-424. Work with the buffer at 64
Before you use Cubase, I used Logic.

I have these problems:
- As soon as I open Cubase, the Asio resources shown in the panel, already consumes a 5-7% of the cpu
- When I open 35 audio channels, already consumes 30%
- If on each channel I insert the VST "Mono Channel" of SSL-Duende (which is a DSP that does not make full use of the CPU) arrival to 60-70%

I have something wrong on my Mac, or even on your Mac, Cubase consumes so many resources?

With Logic (I am not exaggerating) with the same project, consumed 5% of the CPU ...
I demand your help ...

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Guest » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:19 am

Correct ASIO driver selected?

Fra'
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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:27 am

Yes. PCI-E 424....
I find this of Motu, or i find the drivers of system.
I upgraded to the latest version my cubase and I set the various parameters in order to work with cubase at the best ....

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Weasel » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:27 am

Try these settings and see if things improve.
screenshot_01.jpg
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screenshot_02.jpg
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Dual 6 Core 2.66 MacPro/48gbRAM-OSX 10.12.6/C10.0.60 • MOTU 424e/2408mk3 • 2-MIDI Express 128's ••• DualCore 2.8 iMac/4gbRAM-OSX 10.10.5/C9.0.20 • MOTU/ULmk3 ••• D8B/V5.1

Oh.....so this is the Cornfield?....

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:28 pm

Hello and thanks for your screensaver.
I have the settings the same as yours.
My problem is that I can not work with the buffer "so high". Must be 64. Many musicians, when I did the mix, with all the vst, they want to record new tracks in the same project...
It seems odd that Cubase with the buffer to 64, uses so much resources

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by fishtank » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:03 pm

Fra' wrote: It seems odd that Cubase with the buffer to 64, uses so much resources
OSX has poor performance at low latency compared to properly configured Windows systems - this has been common knowledge for some time. Also, you may want to consider an RME interface instead of MOTU, as RME typically outperforms everything else at low latency (at least on Windows systems).

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by playz123 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:07 pm

I'm sorry, but with that many audio tracks etc. your buffer setting is too low....period. What do you mean you can't work with a higher setting?? Latency would still be unnoticeable at 5 or 6 msec as per Weasel's images. Why not try it and see?
Cubase 10.5.12, Cubase 9.5.50, WaveLab 9.1.0, 2014 Mac Pro, 3.5 GHz, 6 core, OS 10.14.6, 32 GB RAM, RME Multiface II with HDSPe interface, CC121.

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:25 pm

fishtank wrote:OSX has poor performance at low latency compared to properly configured Windows systems - this has been common knowledge for some time. Also, you may want to consider an RME interface instead of MOTU, as RME typically outperforms everything else at low latency (at least on Windows systems).
I always knew (but I could be wrong) that Motu he was having problems with Windows, but Rme and was better under Os Microsoft. Motu, under OSX, worked better

playz123 wrote:I'm sorry, but with that many audio tracks etc. your buffer setting is too low....period. What do you mean you can't work with a higher setting?? Latency would still be unnoticeable at 5 or 6 msec as per Weasel's images. Why not try it and see?
already at 128, some musicians complain...
5ms latency to be honest sometimes it bothers me ...
I used the other software of Apple, because he had 2ms latency without burdening the CPU. I do not understand why cubase works differently with the same driver and same vst....

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by JMCecil » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:25 pm

Fra' wrote: With Logic (I am not exaggerating) with the same project, consumed 5% of the CPU ...
Do you really mean CPU? Or do you mean the ASIO performance meter? If you can playback that many tracks with all plugins processing in Logic at 5% CPU, you have the worlds greatest MAC/Logic setup in history.

If you are talking about having the template loaded, but NOT playing back, then you are probably talking about ASIO performance and not CPU, as neither Cubase nor Logic should show much if any CPU load at rest.

If we are talking ASIO performance, then there are multiple explanations. But, keep in mind that cocoa and/or AU plugs behave differently than VST plugs. For example, VST3 allows for loaded plugins to NOT process when not being used. VST2 plugs are always processing (not entirely true, but enough true for this discussion).

And again, if we are talking ASIO performance, the way Logic and Cubase report ASIO load is different and can't be compared % to %. They aren't reporting the same thing.
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by JMCecil » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:16 pm

Fra' wrote: already at 128, some musicians complain...
5ms latency to be honest sometimes it bothers me ...
Are you using plug-ins that add additional latency to the monitoring loop back to the musicians? It makes no sense that the "musicians" are complaining. Why are they getting ANY latency from the DAW? I track at 256ms regularly. Hell, I've tracked at 1024 when I had a full 32 ins from a desk. Never had a problem with the musicians.
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:07 pm

I have understanding that cubase don't works correctly with the buffer of less than 128.
If my Motu she had the Directmonitoring option, I would have solved the problem. On the PC is enabled, not in OSX ..... but the responsibility, as well as of Steinberg is also of Motu and Apple.

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:14 pm

JMCecil wrote: Do you really mean CPU? Or do you mean the ASIO performance meter? If you can playback that many tracks with all plugins processing in Logic at 5% CPU, you have the worlds greatest MAC/Logic setup in history.
you want a screenshot? :)
I use 70% dsp .... should be so also in cubase ... also considers the power of the mac pro ...

PS: In logic is shown the consumption of the CPU. I see eight indicators of performance. They refer to the number of core of the cpu

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by JMCecil » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:20 pm

Fra' wrote: you want a screenshot? :)
I use 70% dsp .... should be so also in cubase ... also considers the power of the mac pro ...
yes, because I believe you are looking at the ASIO load, not the CPU load .. even more so now.
PS: In logic is shown the consumption of the CPU. I see eight indicators of performance. They refer to the number of core of the cpu
And, like I said before you are comparing apples and oranges.
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Split » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:23 pm

JMCecil wrote:
Fra' wrote: already at 128, some musicians complain...
5ms latency to be honest sometimes it bothers me ...
Are you using plug-ins that add additional latency to the monitoring loop back to the musicians? It makes no sense that the "musicians" are complaining. Why are they getting ANY latency from the DAW? I track at 256ms regularly. Hell, I've tracked at 1024 when I had a full 32 ins from a desk. Never had a problem with the musicians.
Glad to see someone else talking sense about "latency" although 1024 does usually generate complaints but 128 should not be a problem and to say 5ms bothers you, is it really 5ms?

If musicians were bothered by 5ms no one could ever get anything done.
??????Split
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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:30 pm

the buffer to 128 is not exactly 5ms... is almost 6ms.
The human ear is at the limit with 5ms

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:32 pm

JMCecil wrote: yes, because I believe you are looking at the ASIO load, not the CPU load .. even more so now.
Ok! from the study I send you the screenshot...

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by JMCecil » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:33 pm

Cubase Performance (F12) is an ASIO load indicator, not necessarily a CPU load indicator. Although there is a correlation.
Logic shows you CPU load. These are not the same thing. And, the two systems measure differently. Plus, AU reports differently than VST. Even within version of the VST and AU SDKs the features for performance reporting/usage are different.

My point is you are looking at a horse and a cow and can't figure out why they don't look the same.

The better test is to look at the actual CPU meter (not the one in either host) while playing back a song with similar plugin setup. My understanding is that Logic runs a little better than Cubase on OSX, but OSX is a pig compared to Windows for audio. Almost every measurement I've seen comes to this conclusion.
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Split » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:42 pm

How far away do you sit from you speakers? 6ms is equivalent to 2 meters, so for headphones it equivalent to sitting 2 meters away from a speaker and saying the propagation delay is too much to work with?

There may well be some other factor thats increasing the reported latency?
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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:45 pm

JMCecil wrote:Cubase Performance (F12) is an ASIO load indicator, not necessarily a CPU load indicator. Although there is a correlation.
Logic shows you CPU load. These are not the same thing. And, the two systems measure differently. Plus, AU reports differently than VST. Even within version of the VST and AU SDKs the features for performance reporting/usage are different.

My point is you are looking at a horse and a cow and can't figure out why they don't look the same.

The better test is to look at the actual CPU meter (not the one in either host) while playing back a song with similar plugin setup. My understanding is that Logic runs a little better than Cubase on OSX, but OSX is a pig compared to Windows for audio. Almost every measurement I've seen comes to this conclusion.
I understand what you mean. Have you explained it very well :)
In fact, my problem, without to look at performance indicators, is that the buffer 64 and the number of plug-in DSP with whom I usually work, cubase does not hold up the workload

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:50 pm

Split wrote:How far away do you sit from you speakers? 6ms is equivalent to 2 meters, so for headphones it equivalent to sitting 2 meters away from a speaker and saying the propagation delay is too much to work with?

There may well be some other factor thats increasing the reported latency?
1 meter ...
I do not think there are other problems .. latency is the same even without plug-ins

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by JMCecil » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:59 pm

Fra' wrote: In fact, my problem, without to look at performance indicators, is that the buffer 64 and the number of plug-in DSP with whom I usually work, cubase does not hold up the workload
Ok, that I understand :)

Again, my understanding (as a person who doesn't use MACs) is that Logic is more efficient with certain plug-ins setups than Cubase. I just don't know enough about it to say which ones may be causing you grief.
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:04 am

... even I do not know why, unfortunately :)

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Weasel » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:42 am

My problem is that I can not work with the buffer "so high". Must be 64. Many musicians, when I did the mix, with all the vst, they want to record new tracks in the same project...
Fra':

You can record live musicians into Cubase and avoid latency problem by utilizing the MOTU CueMix software that comes with the 2408. If you are the registered owner of the 2408, log in and download the latest MOTU Audio Installer:

File Name: MOTU_Audio_Installer-Mac-110806.zip
Type: driver
Date: 2011/08/09
Language: english
Version: 1.6.48575
Size: 18.0MB
Platform: Mac OSX

First bit of advice: if you are using Cubase's Control Room monitoring system…turn it off. On a Mac, it easily adds a 15% increase on your CPUs headroom. Avoid it like the plague.

OK….

The idea is to use the CueMix software to provide a zero latency monitor or headphone mix to the musicians from the 2408 exclusively. You need to do some setup to get this to work well. If you are using Mics, you will need some sort of pre-amplification, as the 2408's analog inputs are Line Level. You may also need a headphone amplifier/splitter if you are recording more than one musician at a time. Here's a diagram of the basic analog I/O connections.
2408Diagram.PNG
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Open the CueMix control Panels and observe these settings. In this example, I'm bringing one microphone into the 2408's #8 Analog Input via an external mic preamp. I am combining the mix from Cubase (via Outputs 1 & 2) and the 2408's inputs (Analog Input 8) in CueMix and sending it out to a headphone amp from the 2408's MainOuts.
MOTU Setup.jpg
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Set record monitoring in Cubase to Manual Mode. This is the best way to avoid confusion and accidental "double monitoring".
VST Prefs.jpg
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You adjust the mix playback from Cubase from Cubase's own Output faders. There is no control in CueMix to do this if you are working exclusively with a single bank of analog I/O from the 2408.

You may find that there may be a level mismatch between the live tracking in CueMix and Cubase's playback of the overdubs back into Cuemix. Simply set the Trim control on the overdubbed channels rather than raising the Track's Fader (very top of the Cubase mixer. Hold Shift to adjust). This leaves you fader room for mixing. In this example, I've raised the Trim on Track 8 by 12dB. This way, there was no level shift between the live mic and the playback from Cubase. These may not be optimal settings for you, so feel free to experiment. I'm only showing you the general idea.

See if any of this helps your situation.
Dual 6 Core 2.66 MacPro/48gbRAM-OSX 10.12.6/C10.0.60 • MOTU 424e/2408mk3 • 2-MIDI Express 128's ••• DualCore 2.8 iMac/4gbRAM-OSX 10.10.5/C9.0.20 • MOTU/ULmk3 ••• D8B/V5.1

Oh.....so this is the Cornfield?....

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Re: Help! Cubase and Mac Pro. Excessive CPU consumption

Post by Fra' » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:20 am

Thanks for taking the time you've spent to show me your procedure.
I will try this solution, although, I believe, I will not stay to use this software...
Thanks to all anyway...

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