In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

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gongsoundsgood
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In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by gongsoundsgood »

I had gotten' used to in place rendering single plugins on the master section on version 9
If I have more than one plugin on the master section and I just want to render one of them I know to turn off ones not required.
I have noticed that even when individual plugins are off they still get applied when in place render is executed on required plugin that is on.
So, in order to apply a specific individual plugin's settings I have to remove any other plugins from the Master Section prior to the in place render.
Moreover, this occurs when master section is bypassed and off too?
Is this by design now?

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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by PG »

A change has been done in this domain. No more option "Exclude bypassed plugins from rendering", because this state was often a source of confusion for users (on? off?).
But there is a solution for your case, see picture:
2017-12-13_11-45-29.png
(13.18 KiB) Not downloaded yet
(this is a WaveLab Pro picture, but the feature is also in WaveLab Elements).

If you press S, the plugin is Soloed. Now, if you press the button pointed by the red arrow, only the non-bypassed plugins are rendered. What you are looking for.

Additional note: even with the standard Render method, you don't need to remove plugins to skip them for rendering. You can use the On/Off button, which is different from Bypass. This is the button at the right most side on the picture.
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gongsoundsgood
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by gongsoundsgood »

check - No bypass & solo'd one plugin that I wanted. All Good.

Thanks Philippe. Additional note noted. Solo, bypass didn't seem to be behaving right.

I was only reporting how it was for me. Removing them was the only nuclear way I could find to prevent the plugins applying unexpectidly, already being an Elements user.

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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by XLR »

To double check if I captured it right:
- Clicking on "Bypass" in the master section will not hinder the plugin's processing while rendering, it will remain active
- If I want to leave a plugin in the master section, but don't want to have it included in the rendering process, I have to "switch it off" before rendering instead of "bypassing" it
- "Switching off" works when I open the plugin's GUI window and click on the "power button" in the WL plugin window frame
- I can't access the "on/off-Switch" from the master section to toggle on/off, but only from each plugin's GUI window
- I can recognize which plugins were "on" / "off" in the master section, because the "switched off" ones get grey (the 'bar' and the letters also, no matter whether the plugin window is open or not)

- And there is another way, if I only want to render with only one plugin included, by "soloing" this plugin in the master section ("solo button"). - But that will only work for 1 plugin at a time, not for several plugins from a chain at once.

Right...??

Thanks in advance!

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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by PG »

- I can't access the "on/off-Switch" from the master section to toggle on/off, but only from each plugin's GUI window
Yes you can, with a right click, from the slot menu.
- And there is another way, if I only want to render with only one plugin included, by "soloing" this plugin in the master section ("solo button"). - But that will only work for 1 plugin at a time, not for several plugins from a chain at once.
Not exactly, if you use the function "render in place", all bypassed plugins are excluded. Solo is the extrem case.
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by nkf »

Is it only me thinking that is going now somewhat messy? In a better world there would be two solid Master sections: one which works plain simple and straightforward like in Nuendo/Cubase. A second Master/Monitoring Section could be for those with EQ monitoring, pre playback needs etc. Bypass should stay as Bypass and nothing else, no left or right click. Instead of doing this, render functions got different behaviours. In the heat of the production you need abolutely clear and precise meanings. To remember different rendering behaviours with "in place" or for a new file is crazy and prone to doing mistakes.
Could well be I missed something, but I only need playback with all bypassed plug ins, single or combination of bypassed plug ins and playback with all plug ins and all this as straightforward as possible. Rendering should render exactly what I hear NOW, partly in the region, in place or to a new file, otherwise it is a trap. I use dozens of apps and machines during production and cannot focus my work only on WL and its 'specialities'.

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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by PG »

Rendering should render exactly what I hear NOW, partly in the region, in place or to a new file, otherwise it is a trap.
This is precisely why the old option was removed, to prevent confusion with a semi-visible option.

Yet, there is a special workflow that was requested multiple times, to only render one plugin among many (to ask to choose the best one to apply). And this is why there is this special render option, found in a deficated place, and only there.
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by XLR »

nkf wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:12 pm
In a better world there would be two solid Master sections: one which works plain simple and straightforward like in Nuendo/Cubase. A second Master/Monitoring Section could be for those with EQ monitoring, pre playback needs etc. Bypass should stay as Bypass and nothing else (...) In the heat of the production you need abolutely clear and precise meanings.
+1 !!

I'd move off-hand with you to this best of worlds! :-)

I don't want to have to struggle with "fundamental basics" whil working on audio, like having to think about different options to have a plugin "in" or "out" of the chain (or - worse - "nearly out" vs. "totally out", ...). I need the fundamentals to be simple and easy, to be handled 'blind' for concentration on the sound and tweaking my plugins' knobs.

No, I'm not getting confused if a plugin, clearly marked as "bypassed", also doesn't affekt the sound. That's what I expect - even if it fidgets with it's meters - because I set it to "bypassed" mode just to have it not affecting my rendering results.

And if I intend to try out one special plugin, and further want not only to listen to it, but to render with only this single plugin for a test (e.g. to try it with CPU hog features that cannot reliably be pre-listened), I'm totally happy with "bypassing" all the other plugins in the chain and having only this one active. And render.
I don't need (or want) a special "solo" function for this special purpose, or having to "switch off" all other plugins instead of bypassing - if just simply "bypass" is the only thing I want, like a plane hardware bypass in a real console...!

And if I want to have only my monitoring altered, not the rendering result - e.g. with referencing stuff, or with emulating plugins like e.g. "MixChecker", that alter my expensive monitors to an appreciated customers nasty boom box or iPhone sound, I'd be happy to have this in a - clearly separated! - "monitoring chain", with inserts only to the monitoring, clearly different and separated from my master bus / audio processing chain.

For me, the sophisticated long-grown structure of good old consoles makes a lot of sense - it's developed up to a maximum of handling comfort and a minimum of confusion. - And that's what I'd strongly whish also my software to be like...

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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by PG »

Reading my past message, I think I was not clear enough. Hence let me summarize:

From WaveLab Pro/Elements 9.5.15 (and this has changed since 9.5.0), when a plugin is individually bypassed, it is never rendered. Therefore: "What you hear is what you render".
This is what the majority of users would expect. In the past, there was an additional option, that would lead to confusion. This option has been removed.

The "Render in Place" + solo buttons on the plugin is a special workflow to ease the rendering of a single plugin among many.

The plugin On/Off function is an extra option if you want to completely exclude a plugin so that it does not eat any CPU.
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by profdraper »

That's all fine & makes sense. However ( I think this may have been posted elsewhere):

Using WL Pro 9.5 & round tripping from Nuendo (or Cubase):
The new Restore Rig /Denoiser/Learn function will NOT render-in-place; PITA.
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by PG »

The new Restore Rig /Denoiser/Learn function will NOT render-in-place
Yes it does (you need to use WaveLab 9.5.15)
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by profdraper »

Thanks for the suggestion, but I am using 9.5.15.45; perhaps there may be something else I'm missing (?) but the behaviour seems consistent.
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by PG »

but the behaviour seems consistent.
What is your exact procedure then?
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by profdraper »

Thanks. That's:
Open in Wavelab 'wild camera dialogue' clip from Nuendo or Cubase;
Insert Restore Rig on the Master bus;
Adjust Restore Rig modules /parameters as required;
Render in place.
All Restore Rig changes render correctly – except for any adjustments made via the DeNoiser Learn function.
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by PG »

All Restore Rig changes render correctly – except for any adjustments made via the DeNoiser Learn function
When did you have the plugin to "learn"? This is not quoted in your description.
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by profdraper »

OK, thanks again:

The plug is set to Learn while playing or looping the file. Unusual in that the behaviour is quite different to learn functions in say, Waves, RX6, Accousonics etc where the 'learn' curve stays in place & memory for processing. From the WL9.5 plugin guide, I checked:
The Noise options allow you to define a section in an audio file that contains a staticnoise that you want to remove and then remove it.
1. Play back the audio section that contains the noise that you want to removeand click Learn. RestoreRig records the audio for a few seconds.
2. To remove the recorded static noise in the audio file, click Reset.
And so the 'Reset' instruction is odd via comparison to other NR plugs. In any case, in Learn mode the Static Level function activates and playback works to preview the noise reduction - Dynamic Level can also be running, or not. Render in place now ignores any Static Level settings created by the Learn function.

Alternatively, and attempting to follow the instructions from the manual, ie, ''To remove the recorded static noise in the audio file, click Reset'. This does not remove the noise or commit the settings to the file; rather it does as expected: re-sets the learn function and turns off Static Level.
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by PG »

Hmm, the manual seem completely wrong. I will see with the manual writer. To remove the noise from the audio file, you must render in place, without clicking on Reset!
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by profdraper »

Yes, thanks. But as per the original post - Learn, then Render in Place does not work for Static Level. The file is the same. AFAIK, all other Master FX render in place correctly as expected, this includes all elements of the Restore Suite, except for Static Level.
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by bob99 »

profdraper wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:23 pm
Thanks for the suggestion, but I am using 9.5.15.45; perhaps there may be something else I'm missing (?) but the behaviour seems consistent.
profdraper wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:35 pm
But as per the original post - Learn, then Render in Place does not work for Static Level.
Fwiw, the static render or static render in place works ok here in 9.5.15.45 on Win 10, as long as the Static level percentage is turned up. But then again, I'm not using the Cubase/Nuendo interchange so maybe that makes a difference?

The static render doesn't work correctly at all in 9.5.10 here.

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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by profdraper »

Fwiw, the static render or static render in place works ok here in 9.5.15.45 on Win 10, as long as the Static level percentage is turned up. But then again, I'm not using the Cubase/Nuendo interchange so maybe that makes a difference?
Thanks for the tip: you are indeed correct - Static Render in place WORKS with a standalone audio file, but NOT with round-tripping from Nuendo or Cubase. Perhaps better using my time for object-oriented editing with DOP /ERA-D or similar.

UPDATE:
Got it working for round-trip - the Static level percentage already auto activates to some value when using 'Learn'; the trick seems to be to wiggle that dial to any new setting, then the thing renders. Go figure.
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Re: In Place Render has changed in Wavelab Elements 9.5

Post by bob99 »

profdraper wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 am
UPDATE:
Got it working for round-trip - the Static level percentage already auto activates to some value when using 'Learn'; the trick seems to be to wiggle that dial to any new setting, then the thing renders. Go figure.
Oh wow, I didn't check that. I manually adjusted the percentage after Learn.

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