Cubase Score!

Post general topics related to Cubase Pro 9, Cubase Artist 9 and Cubase Elements 9 here.
Alexandre de Faria
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Cubase Score!

Post by Alexandre de Faria » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:13 am

hi everyone,

I know Dorico is the new thing.

I just wanted to say that the score in Cubase is a masterpiece on its on!!

I can't live without it and I hope Steinberg don't even think of touching that feature.

I'm currently doing this major work and have thousands of score to prepare for the recording sessions (Full orchestra and Choir). Yes, little Cubase score is not only being the one used but it is doing the job greatly!

I've always used it. But this time I really needed to get a tough and big jog done. I never used the score editor at this depth of detail.

After a couple of days getting into the advance tricks and secrets I realize no dedicated Score editor could do the job as the way I am doing it with the score editor.

Seriously, congratulations to the team involved in the editor. It's a powerful and rich feature many users do touch.

Alex

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by TheMaestro » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:31 am

Amen!

Yes, contrary to what we often hear, the Score Editor is so intuitive and you can get great looking scores very quickly when you well learn how it works. And it's only when you get into the details that you realize that it is indeed a "masterpiece". ;)
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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Alexandre de Faria » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:02 am

TheMaestro wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:31 am
Amen!

Yes, contrary to what we often hear, the Score Editor is so intuitive and you can get great looking scores very quickly when you well learn how it works. And it's only when you get into the details that you realize that it is indeed a "masterpiece". ;)
I totally agree with every word!

I dare say, with the right settings, Cubase makes 80% of the job for you.

and you well mentioned the " details". When I found the "Marker to Rehearsal marks" (or something like this), it blew my head off. Or adding note symbols in ghost parts, that replicate this tiring work automatically. Come on, this is incredible!

Nice to have someone to praise that beast with!

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Musicmind » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:07 am

Couldn't you please upload an example of the final result?
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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Alexandre de Faria » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:28 am

I'd be very glad to, sure. Let me just reach my deadline and I'll post something.

It comes out as profissional as any other pro score editor. But within Cubase, which is a blessing (not to say one less software to purchase)

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Alexandre de Faria » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:21 am

I also forgot to say something I've been using for a couple of months now.

My third monitor (in vertical position, for the scores) signal is split and the signal feeds my two studio rooms. This way musicians can play straight from the score editor. Great for many situations, mainly when you're not arsed to print parts.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by suntower » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:40 am

Agreed. I use it every day. I hope to God that SB wises up and figures out a way to integrate Dorico -into- Cubase. The integration is what makes ALL the difference.
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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by djw » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:50 pm

Alexandre de Faria wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:13 am
I can't live without it and I hope Steinberg don't even think of touching that feature.
Personally, I'm gonna be happy when I can seamlessly use Dorico in/with Cubase. It would be good if they keep the legacy editor too though.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Alexandre de Faria » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:48 pm

well, the things are I fear for the score editor. SB is fully commited to Dorico. However, the nearset possible integration might be what we have now between Cubase and Halion: Edit in Halion editor button. Dorico and score editor have very different philosofies. I hope Micheal Michaelis team still have room to keep developing the score editor, although I have my doubts.

That's one of the reason I opened this thread. To tell SB we care for the editor.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Puma0382 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:26 am

And just to provoke a little more conversation... (I'm a complete novice/hobbyist only, wrt notation.!).

You seem pretty happy with how things are.! What more would you say is needed/needs fixing(?), without requiring huge amounts of effort, engineering wise.? :-)
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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by eboats » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:08 pm

Credit to Steinberg for including the Score Editor, but what the industry really needs is a professional notation driven DAW. I'd love to see a pro level notation package like Sibelius or Dorico seamlessly integrated into a DAW. It'd be a real workflow time-saver.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Alexandre de Faria » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:26 pm

Puma0382 wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:26 am
And just to provoke a little more conversation... (I'm a complete novice/hobbyist only, wrt notation.!).

You seem pretty happy with how things are.! What more would you say is needed/needs fixing(?), without requiring huge amounts of effort, engineering wise.? :-)
Hey Puma, thanks for joining the thread.

Well, I guess there are many things, and I hope Steinberg keeps developing the score editor. Here are some:

1. An option to add a new track into an existing Layout. Say you have a full orchestra layout already set. But you want to include a Harp in there. This will be seen as a new layout, and you have to set the Layout design again. AFAIK one cannot do this right now

2. The editor in full screen on a monitor in vertical position hides some buttons off the screen.

3. some small bugs: I prefer to use number rehearsal marks. Here, the editor does not like it very much and sometimes they turn into letters. Solution: I stopped investigating why this was happening and am using letters instead. No biggy.

4. Sometimes, in the turn of a page, a note may be missing if it is not fully quantized. Solution: quantize that specific note.
Last edited by Alexandre de Faria on Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Alexandre de Faria » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:35 pm

eboats wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:08 pm
Credit to Steinberg for including the Score Editor, but what the industry really needs is a professional notation driven DAW. I'd love to see a pro level notation package like Sibelius or Dorico seamlessly integrated into a DAW. It'd be a real workflow time-saver.
I agree. That's why I quit standalone score editors a long time ago and adopted the score editor. I was using Sibelius in its early version. The integration of the score editor within Cubase is worth it.

Unfortunatelly, Dorico doesn't seem to have been built with this integration in mind and I assume it would be quite hard to accomplish this integration.

Steinberg might have two options: bring something from Dorico into the score editor, or bring something from Cubase into Dorico
Last edited by Alexandre de Faria on Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Alexandre de Faria » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:49 pm

btw, I'm learning some tricks and would love if anyone mind sharing some tricks of their own in here.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Brian Roland » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:24 pm

I too love the Cubase Score integration. While it's not an engraver's dream....it's really good at a lot of things!

When it comes to working with percussion stuff, nothing else can touch it in terms of work-flow. Diamond Editor, extremely versatile drum mapping, easy assignment to stave position and note shape, ease of re-routing pieces to any plugin/channel etc....

I do hope the Dorico dev team are taking notes on how CuBase handles percussion.................and I hope they integrate a more orchestral oriented form of Groove Agent that's as easy to map out and get onto a stave as it is in CuBase!

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by mbira » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:55 am

I also love the score editor. I don't use it for fully engraved charts or anything, and I think it would be tough to get it to compete with something that specializes in that, but it works great for my needs-to print out charts of specific parts for songs for band members to learn. It's so much faster and more convenient that trying to use a third party tool!

I expect eventually Dorico will take over, but I certainly hope that is long after they have managed to get it fully integrated with Cubase.
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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Puma0382 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:18 pm

Alexandre de Faria wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:26 pm
Puma0382 wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:26 am
And just to provoke a little more conversation... (I'm a complete novice/hobbyist only, wrt notation.!).

You seem pretty happy with how things are.! What more would you say is needed/needs fixing(?), without requiring huge amounts of effort, engineering wise.? :-)
Hey Puma, thanks for joining the thread.

Well, I guess there are many things, and I hope Steinberg keeps developing the score editor. Here are some:

1. An option to add a new track into an existing Layout. Say you have a full orchestra layout already set. But you want to include a Harp in there. This will be seen as a new layout, and you have to set the Layout design again. AFAIK one cannot do this right now

2. The editor in full screen on a monitor in vertical position hides some buttons off the screen.

3. some small bugs: I prefer to use number rehearsal marks. Here, the editor does not like it very much and sometimes they turn into letters. Solution: I stopped investigating why this was happening and am using letters instead. No biggy.

4. Sometimes, in the turn of a page, a note may be missing if it is not fully quantized. Solution: quantize that specific note.
OK - interesting points; none of these will I hit any time soon, for sure.. lol.! But, I am keen on hearing these ideas and concerns from more 'pro' users and to see how SB respond.
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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by hesca116 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:42 pm

Alexandre de Faria wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:28 am
I'd be very glad to, sure. Let me just reach my deadline and I'll post something.

It comes out as profissional as any other pro score editor. But within Cubase, which is a blessing (not to say one less software to purchase)
Hello Alexandre!

Can you show us the power of the Score Editor?

I have a coleague that says its crap compared to Finale, but I think its because he doesnt know how to use Cubase. Honestly havent found any flaws in terms of notation or procedure to get a score ready.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by hesca116 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:51 pm

Also,

As a music producer, I have used the score editor as a VERY valuable tool, to do the following production related tasks (most of which take advantage of sequencer related features, such as the Audio to MIDI function from Variaudio)

1. Convert an audio recording to MIDI and then to a Score part in order to share ideas or analyze flaws or virtues in a performance
2. Convert an edited version of a guitar solo recording to MIDI then to TAB in order to hand it over to the guitar player so he can practice it and get it ready for the recording session
3. Record a rehearsal, turn it into MIDI then to score and hand it back to the musicians for them to have something on paper as a reference to study and work on their parts before the recording session
4. Use my talkback mic in the control room to record melody ideas, turn them to MIDI and then show them to the singer right there during the session - specially useful to communicate rhythmic stuff.
5. Turn markers and chord track events easily into lead sheets
6. Turn a quick MIDI recording into a sketch that I can turn over to my arranger guy so he can have a clear idea of what I mean.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Alexandre de Faria » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:30 am

hesca116 wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:42 pm
Alexandre de Faria wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:28 am
I'd be very glad to, sure. Let me just reach my deadline and I'll post something.

It comes out as profissional as any other pro score editor. But within Cubase, which is a blessing (not to say one less software to purchase)
Hello Alexandre!

Can you show us the power of the Score Editor?

I have a coleague that says its crap compared to Finale, but I think its because he doesnt know how to use Cubase. Honestly havent found any flaws in terms of notation or procedure to get a score ready.

Hi Hesca,

of course I can! I just came back from Prague, where I recorded with the Philharmonic orchestra. 210 pages of full score and all parts extracted, all with the score editor.

How many errors??? Two (yes, 2) notes (my mistake)! Why? the reliability of keeping everything within Cubase.

the irony?? I was too lazy to extract a Harp part and thus asked my assistant to do it in Sibelius. Yes, this one was full of errors.

As soon as I have some spare time I post some pages here.

The Score Editor is all you need

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Hans Nel » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:32 am

OK...but you guys must also see the situation from another perspective. There are composers who compose film Scores by using notation first (like John Williams, James Horner, Danny Elfman, Alan Silvestri etc)...and NOT by Playing/Recording straight into Cubase firstly.

If I could have a Movie Window inside Dorico and compose music for full orchestra (like John Williams) while syncing it to the movie window through timestamps etc. it would be extremely powerful if Dorico had a function in the "File" menu that says "Export to Cubase". Dorico perhaps creates an xml file. This file is IMPORTED into Cubase which in turn sets up all parameters such as:
0) Cubase detects the used VST's and loads them;
1) Each Stave in Dorico becomes a track with all envelopes, velocities, panning etc already set up;
2) The Movie is loaded in the Movie Window; and
Now have fun fine tuning your "Mock-up" with the movie!

The Good thing is, there is no need for copyists for the Movie Casting as Dorico already has the score and parts print ready! Guys like Hans Zimmer records entire scores into Cubase (the way HE prefers) and then copyists has to be rented to notate the entire film score publishing standard for the conductor and orchestra...whilst Dorico to Cubase will be perfect for me as I love composing on the score (again like John Williams and James Horner orchestrates on huge scoring paper and pencil and let copyist Notate the penciled score in Sibelius, Finale or Dorico) and then export to Cubase for my Mock-Up!
Last edited by Hans Nel on Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Alexandre de Faria » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:41 am

Hans Nel wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:32 am
OK...but you guy must also see the situation from another perspective. Their are composers who compose film Scores by using notation...NOT playing/Recording straight into Cubase.


The Good thing is, there is no need for copyists for the Movie Casting as Dorico already has the score and parts print ready! Guys like Hans Zimmer records entire scores into Cubase (the way HE prefers) and then copyists has to be rented to notate the entire film score publishing standard for the conductor and orchestra...whilst Dorico to Cubase will be perfect for me as I love composing on the score (again like John Williams and James Horner om huge scoring paper and pencil) and then export to Cubase.
hi Hans,

or you simply create your midi tracks with blank midi events and insert your notes into the score editor. Cubase will have the score and parts ready to print like Dorico would.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by hesca116 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:59 pm

Hans Nel wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:32 am
OK...but you guys must also see the situation from another perspective. There are composers who compose film Scores by using notation first (like John Williams, James Horner, Danny Elfman, Alan Silvestri etc)...and NOT by Playing/Recording straight into Cubase firstly.

Hans, I agree with Alexandre here.

You can work strictly via Score Notation within Cubase.
The note input would be a matter of:

1. Creating a MIDI track for each timbre
2. Creating a MIDI part within each track with the lenght of the whole score
3. Type away your notes.

PLUS, in Cubase you can input notes via several metods diferent than the regular "MIDI recording within the sequencer". Step recording is particularly fast and comfortable in my opinion, but you can combine mouse+keyboard, use only the mouse, use the computer keyboard and even record your ideas or mock-ups directly to the score.

I haven´t tried Dorico, but I can tell you that from Cubase, you could load the video directly and even sync it with an external video playback device or external transport syncrhonizer. The precision level for syncing events to video is just pristine. BESIDES, using the VST System Link feature, you could even use a separate computer to playback the video or defer the CPU load of the heavy sound banks of your Virtual Orchestra.

Also, a really cool advantage I´ve found Scoring with Cubase is the flexibility and precision of working with articulations. As long as your virtual instrument includes the soundbanks for it, you can basically add ANY symbol to your score (even draw your own symbols) and link it to the instrument in order to have the correct sound changes happen automatically. For instance, with Trilian you can use the score symbols to activate harmonics, glissandos, dead notes, and all sort of custom sounds, all by adding the correct symbol to the staff. When the cursor reaches the symbol, it sends an instruction for the virtual instrument to playback the required soundbank, either note by note or during a specific range of the staff.

Its great.

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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Stephen57 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:24 pm

This year's task will be to learn Score Editor better. Looking forward to seeing examples posted here and keep those tips and workflow ideas coming.

To the OP, good luck with your future projects and thanks for an upbeat post.
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Re: Cubase Score!

Post by Hans Nel » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:36 am

hesca116 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:59 pm
Hans Nel wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:32 am
OK...but you guys must also see the situation from another perspective. There are composers who compose film Scores by using notation first (like John Williams, James Horner, Danny Elfman, Alan Silvestri etc)...and NOT by Playing/Recording straight into Cubase firstly.

Hans, I agree with Alexandre here.

You can work strictly via Score Notation within Cubase.
The note input would be a matter of:

1. Creating a MIDI track for each timbre
2. Creating a MIDI part within each track with the lenght of the whole score
3. Type away your notes.

PLUS, in Cubase you can input notes via several metods diferent than the regular "MIDI recording within the sequencer". Step recording is particularly fast and comfortable in my opinion, but you can combine mouse+keyboard, use only the mouse, use the computer keyboard and even record your ideas or mock-ups directly to the score.

I haven´t tried Dorico, but I can tell you that from Cubase, you could load the video directly and even sync it with an external video playback device or external transport syncrhonizer. The precision level for syncing events to video is just pristine. BESIDES, using the VST System Link feature, you could even use a separate computer to playback the video or defer the CPU load of the heavy sound banks of your Virtual Orchestra.

Also, a really cool advantage I´ve found Scoring with Cubase is the flexibility and precision of working with articulations. As long as your virtual instrument includes the soundbanks for it, you can basically add ANY symbol to your score (even draw your own symbols) and link it to the instrument in order to have the correct sound changes happen automatically. For instance, with Trilian you can use the score symbols to activate harmonics, glissandos, dead notes, and all sort of custom sounds, all by adding the correct symbol to the staff. When the cursor reaches the symbol, it sends an instruction for the virtual instrument to playback the required soundbank, either note by note or during a specific range of the staff.

Its great.
Hey chaps, I totally agree at some points. But let's look at some "facts":
1) I HAVE used DAW's notation modules before (except for Cubase which I asked the guys At Steinberg to tell me how to get to it, because I have Cubase Elements 9 and perhaps this version does not have that functionality...except for the Pro version). I loaded a midi file (2 tracks [Vocal & Piano]) and scanned every section of the GUI but, finding the Piano Roll, I cannot find the Notations Frame.

2) I know for a FACT that the LAYOUT of DAW's (except for Cubase as I never worked on it), does not look good for musicians. Lots of spacing and layout issues that make the parts look amateurish! THAT is why Copyists is used by Hans Zimmer (Who use Cubase) to create prints for orchestra from HIS DAW!

3) Regarding having a screen inside a recording studio, I cannot find it practical for the musicians (especially an orchestra) to look at while playing, unless they all have an iPad on their desk connected to your DAW...unless I understood this need incorrectly.

4) I agree with some guys here that Dorico should (like I mentioned in my first post here) integrate with Cubase in order to get the ABSOLUTE best from both worlds...ie...Best Mock-ups...AND...BEST Engraving for musicians.

5) Remember, Dorico is not just for film composers and those who wish DAW integration, but it is also for teachers, students etc.

6) I...for one...would LOVE integration with Cubase...but Cubase MUST "read" a Dorico file and set up the DAW as far as possible as THAT part can be quite cumbersome!

Keep Cool!
Hans
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