STEINBERG! Make the DAW better!

All feature requests and suggestions for upcoming releases of Cubase Pro 9, Cubase Artist 9 and Cubase Elements 9 can be posted here.
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Blunt
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STEINBERG! Make the DAW better!

Post by Blunt »

Forgive the click bait title ;) I was just interested in what you guys thought.

I myself hardly ever use any Cubase stock insert plugins. As there are a lot of us requesting improvements to the DAW so we can work faster and more efficiently, does it make sense for them to spend valuable time working on there new Eq and the like, when they could be implementing many of our requests.

Don't most of us use third party plugins anyway?

After all we are the guys that use this DAW every day, and a lot of the requests I see would make my life so much easier! Why don't we have a voting process on which new features the community wants, and lets get some of these features actioned!

Rather than just requesting new features over and over again and them ignoring us, can we all agree to ask Steinberg to implement a voting system so that they can really get a better idea what new features everyone would benefit from?

What do you guys think?

I love this DAW and have been using it since it was called Pro 12 and don't want to change but I feel the improvements could come faster.
Last edited by Blunt on Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Blackout »

Amen.

Having said that, I do believe that some of their plugins are made by outside '3rd party' companies so whilst your point is completely valid, its more of a falling down of allocation of funds for development than allocation of programmers/resources that $teinberg is failing with.

They believe that a new plugin will entice new buyers ($400) over fixing the actual damn program that only might entice existing customers to upgrade ($100).

Basicially , its only about a money grab and their priorities are completely up the river. Just a shame that we were lead to believe that things would be truely different 'this time' when the clear evidence from the release of c9 is that its 'business as usual'.
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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by ResonantMind »

Blunt wrote:Forgive the click bait title ;) I was just interested in what you guys thought.

I myself hardly ever use any Cubase stock insert plugins. As there are a lot of us requesting improvements to the DAW so we can work faster and more efficiently, does it make sense for them to spend valuable time working on there new Eq and the like, when they could be implementing many of our requests.

Don't most of us use third party plugins anyway?

After all we are the guys that use this DAW every day, and a lot of the requests I see would make my life so much easier! Why don't we have a voting process on which new features the community wants, and lets get some of these features actioned!

Rather than just requesting new features over and over again and them ignoring us, can we all agree to ask Steinberg to implement a voting system so that they can really get a better idea what new features everyone would benefit from?

What do you guys think?

I love this DAW and have been using it since it was called Pro 12 and don't want to change but I feel the improvements could come faster.
I think a lot of people likely do use the stock plugins. Also, whenever I hear Logic users talk about how awesome Logic is, they usually mention the included plugins. But a lot of Logic users are becoming fed up with the direction the program has gone, so Steinberg is likely trying to capture some of that market.

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Steinberg »

Blackout wrote: Having said that, I do believe that some of their plugins are made by outside '3rd party' companies so whilst your point is completely valid, its more of a falling down of allocation of funds for development than allocation of programmers/resources that $teinberg is failing with.
All current plug-ins are developed in-house and those who work on the plug-ins set do now develop Cubase.

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Blackout »

Fabio Bartolini wrote:
All current plug-ins are developed in-house and those who work on the plug-ins set do now develop Cubase.
well thats even worse then Fabio...from what you have said now, there is no excuse now for updating more plugins over fixing the DAW workflow and bugs!
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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Steinberg »

Blackout wrote: well thats even worse then Fabio...from what you have said now, there is no excuse now for updating more plugins over fixing the DAW workflow and bugs!
If in your opinion no fixing, no stability improvement and no workflow enhancement went into Cubase 9... I surrender.

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by folkfreak »

Blackout wrote:
Fabio Bartolini wrote:
All current plug-ins are developed in-house and those who work on the plug-ins set do now develop Cubase.
well thats even worse then Fabio...from what you have said now, there is no excuse now for updating more plugins over fixing the DAW workflow and bugs!
even more so, when the "improved" maximizer still sounds worse that every other maximizer I own, including the free ones..

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Blunt »

Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Blackout wrote: well thats even worse then Fabio...from what you have said now, there is no excuse now for updating more plugins over fixing the DAW workflow and bugs!
If in your opinion no fixing, no stability improvement and no workflow enhancement went into Cubase 9... I surrender.

Hi Fabio,

I really didn't start this to create animosity towards you guys but more to open a dialogue between us and you.
I'm sure we all appreciate the work you do, but at the same time what I'm asking for is a way that we can submit our requests to Steinberg and feel like you guys hear what your users really would like to see.

I can only see some kind of rating or voting system would really identify the most important requests of the community. Which then you could let us know how feasible they are to implement.

I think Steinberg's ability to bring on new users is important and a full price rather than an upgrade fee is more beneficial to all of us in the long run. Having said that, making your DAW stand out from the crowd because of the far superior Feature list would surely be a big draw for any people wanting to change DAW.

What do you think?
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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Minimalist »

Cubase plugins are for people who can't afford third party plugins. I assume there are a lot of those people. Unfortunately, they are holding us back but from a financial standpoint, I understand why it's this way.

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by OxygenBeats »

totally agree! i mostly use 3rd party plugins too, as i believe most people do. I mean, I use some steinberg plug ins, sure... but if anyone really needs an improvement to a plugin, they can always just use a 3rd party plugin that does it better. With your DAW though, it's not so easy.

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Steinberg »

Hello Blunt,

no worries at all. I think that raising your FR on the forum is just fine of course. Keep it up!
We do hear, but besides the constraits, please understand that the forum is not the whole of the userbase nor the only place we get FR from. The new features were voted for 9 as well, and there is a new survey online already, in order to collect feedback for the coming 12 months.

I do see the point of having new features, especially for a major version, but the problem is that resources are not unlimited. It has been requested by a large part of the users to concentrate on stability, workflow and performance. Just look at the 8.5 (or 7.5) forum and see how many 'no features, only improvements' requests.
A lot of work went in Cubase 9 in this respect, less on new features, but this was also a feature request. And I honestly think it was the best thing to do right now.

My previous point was simply: the plug-in set guys work on the plug-ins in any case, without taking away resources from Cubase. The EQ was also another FR, including M/S and Linear Phase capability.

It is a very difficult balance.

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by OxygenBeats »

Fabio. I agree that it's a difficult balance. But there are tons of little requests that I've seen on the forum that really didn't seem technically difficult or would take much time/resources to implement and yet were ignored.

If you guys don't get your feature request ideas from the forum, where do you get your feature requests from? I hope it's not the survey... because just how the forum doesn't represent the whole of the cubase users, I would argue that the survey makes up even a smaller niche than the forum. I'm not on the forum all the time, but I get on every now and then. I completely missed this last survey to vote up feature requests, as I'm sure a ton of other people did.

Steinberg is not my full time job (or part time job), yet I somehow find time to read through lots of feature requests that other people make on the forum. I feel like Steinberg should be paying at least as much attention to them as I do, since that's where they are getting their money from. A lot of people have switched away to other DAWs because Cubase is so far behind in automation and curves. There's a lot of people who are still considering switching (myself included). The automation feature request is all over the place, I don't understand how anyone can miss it. It's the number one complaint I see on youtube, facebook, etc... and yet I'm told that Steinberg STILL has no plans on improving it. It just feels like you don't care about us.

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Blackout »

Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Blackout wrote: well thats even worse then Fabio...from what you have said now, there is no excuse now for updating more plugins over fixing the DAW workflow and bugs!
If in your opinion no fixing, no stability improvement and no workflow enhancement went into Cubase 9... I surrender.
Then why no list of bug fixes and stability improvements released with C9???
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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by djw »

Fabio Bartolini wrote:My previous point was simply: the plug-in set guys work on the plug-ins in any case, without taking away resources from Cubase. The EQ was also another FR, including M/S and Linear Phase capability.
I personally appreciate useful built-in plugins like Frequency. I do hope these features will integrate back into the DAW in the future, like making Frequency integrate with the channel strip EQ.

If they are completely seperate then there's no real benefit over a third-party plugin, but the moment where you can edit the Frequency bands in the MixConsole, or you can even just convert the channel strip EQ to a Frequency instance, then it becomes a real enhancement.

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by smartinuf »

Blackout wrote:
Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Blackout wrote: well thats even worse then Fabio...from what you have said now, there is no excuse now for updating more plugins over fixing the DAW workflow and bugs!
If in your opinion no fixing, no stability improvement and no workflow enhancement went into Cubase 9... I surrender.
Then why no list of bug fixes and stability improvements released with C9???
Exactly! Given the history with frustrated users I would think this would be the first thing to brag about but nothing anywhere that I can find.
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Re: STEINBERG! Make the DAW better!

Post by OxygenBeats »

Yeah, it's true. Everyone always says their system is faster, more stable, etc... it's the same thing with each release, but there's always more bugs popping up. I mean, it's to be expected, but a smart person doesn't just assume it's more stable unless theirs actual evidence.

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by raytracer »

Blackout wrote:
Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Blackout wrote: well thats even worse then Fabio...from what you have said now, there is no excuse now for updating more plugins over fixing the DAW workflow and bugs!
If in your opinion no fixing, no stability improvement and no workflow enhancement went into Cubase 9... I surrender.
Then why no list of bug fixes and stability improvements released with C9???
Yes!! I'm happy to see bug fixes and stability improvements given high priority. But please provide a version history!!

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Re: STEINBERG! Make the DAW better!

Post by OxygenBeats »

I just upgraded to 9 so I could just test things for myself and stop having to ask so many questions..... and NONE of my native instruments plugins will load, even after I try to "reactivate them" at my own risk. But these are not 32 bit plugins, these are 64 bit plugins!!!!!

WTF? That doesn't seem like an improvement, I use so much native instruments stuff, I literally can't load maybe 75-90% of my projects. I don't remember anyone asking for a feature to ban all the 3rd party plugins you use >:(

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Re: STEINBERG! Make the DAW better!

Post by Steinberg »

Hello,

unfortunately, there is no version history for x.0.0 releases, however, please see this post from the support manager:
viewtopic.php?f=250&t=107153&p=588069#p588069

Native Instruments should pass the validation with no issues, this user also reported them as blacklisted, update via Service Center resolved it:
viewtopic.php?f=250&t=107783
Should not even be necessary - I have Komplete 9 over here and none were blacklisted.

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Re: STEINBERG! Make the DAW better!

Post by Raphie »

Steinberg could implement this https://ideascale.com/
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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Raphie »

I nearly exclusively use the inlcuded plugins, excellent quality and great workflow, intergration in EUCON etc.
The only 3rd PTY plugins I use are Diva and Arousor.

Also the included plugins have been updated in this release, check out the new de-esser, it's great.
It's ignorant to assume that the included plugins are not valuable and no one is using them, you would be surprised
It's also ignorant to assume that everyone works the way TS does.

ResonantMind wrote:
Blunt wrote:Forgive the click bait title ;) I was just interested in what you guys thought.

I myself hardly ever use any Cubase stock insert plugins. As there are a lot of us requesting improvements to the DAW so we can work faster and more efficiently, does it make sense for them to spend valuable time working on there new Eq and the like, when they could be implementing many of our requests.

Don't most of us use third party plugins anyway?

After all we are the guys that use this DAW every day, and a lot of the requests I see would make my life so much easier! Why don't we have a voting process on which new features the community wants, and lets get some of these features actioned!

Rather than just requesting new features over and over again and them ignoring us, can we all agree to ask Steinberg to implement a voting system so that they can really get a better idea what new features everyone would benefit from?

What do you guys think?

I love this DAW and have been using it since it was called Pro 12 and don't want to change but I feel the improvements could come faster.
I think a lot of people likely do use the stock plugins. Also, whenever I hear Logic users talk about how awesome Logic is, they usually mention the included plugins. But a lot of Logic users are becoming fed up with the direction the program has gone, so Steinberg is likely trying to capture some of that market.
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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Blunt »

Raphie wrote: It's ignorant to assume that the included plugins are not valuable and no one is using them, you would be surprised
I did not say they were not valuable at all in my post. I just stated that I myself didn't use them much and wondered how everyone else worked. And whether valuable time was being spent on developing these plugins rather than including more feature requests.

I was trying to open up a discussion on why we couldn't prioritise features to be included in future updates so we all get what we need.

no need to call someone Ignorant :shock: ;)
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Re: STEINBERG! Make the DAW better!

Post by Raphie »

But valuable time has been well spend, 9 is a great upgrade, carrying so much value.
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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by zyguli »

Minimalist wrote:Cubase plugins are for people who can't afford third party plugins. I assume there are a lot of those people. Unfortunately, they are holding us back but from a financial standpoint, I understand why it's this way.
I know professionals who make quite a buck using almost exclusively stock plugins.

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Re: STEINBERG! Forget improving plugins. Make the DAW better

Post by Blunt »

zyguli wrote: I know professionals who make quite a buck using almost exclusively stock plugins.

That is a good point and i'm sure that is the case. The point is how important it is to you to have a DAW packed with incredible features or a DAW with loads of bundled plugins? It would seem from the discussions on here that we can't have both though...
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