Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by brycem » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:43 am

How long is the dropout? I'm seriously not hearing anything objectionable on my system with rme hdspe aes cards. A slight gap to allow the delay compensation to realign when inserting plugins, that's all. Nothing that kills the mojo!
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Joe90 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:11 pm

+1

Yes!
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by brycem » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:37 am

brycem wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:43 am
How long is the dropout? I'm seriously not hearing anything objectionable on my system with rme hdspe aes cards. A slight gap to allow the delay compensation to realign when inserting plugins, that's all. Nothing that kills the mojo!
I just timed how long the audio dropout is by dragging an ozone maximizer plugin up/down a slot on an audio channel (project running at 96khz). Times are approximate. (I used a stopwatch while listening, did multiple tests to get a ballpark figure, would have been more accurate if I could be bothered recording the stream and measuring the gap.)

The dropout gets shorter as the soundcard buffer size is decreased.

At 4096 - dropout ≈ 1.3 seconds.

At 2048 - dropout ≈ 0.85 seconds.

At 1024 - dropout ≈ 0.6 seconds.

At 512 - droupout ≈ 0.45 seconds.

At 256 - dropout ≈ 0.3 seconds.

Playback seems to continue in the background (it resumes at the correct position as if the song hadn't stopped).

I guess I've never found it annoying as I usually stop playback when I move or add plugins (got burned by a few crashes on old versions of cubase when trying to do this).
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Joe90 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:24 pm

brycem wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:37 am
brycem wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:43 am
How long is the dropout? I'm seriously not hearing anything objectionable on my system with rme hdspe aes cards. A slight gap to allow the delay compensation to realign when inserting plugins, that's all. Nothing that kills the mojo!
I just timed how long the audio dropout is by dragging an ozone maximizer plugin up/down a slot on an audio channel (project running at 96khz). Times are approximate. (I used a stopwatch while listening, did multiple tests to get a ballpark figure, would have been more accurate if I could be bothered recording the stream and measuring the gap.)

The dropout gets shorter as the soundcard buffer size is decreased.

At 4096 - dropout ≈ 1.3 seconds.

At 2048 - dropout ≈ 0.85 seconds.

At 1024 - dropout ≈ 0.6 seconds.

At 512 - droupout ≈ 0.45 seconds.

At 256 - dropout ≈ 0.3 seconds.

Playback seems to continue in the background (it resumes at the correct position as if the song hadn't stopped).

I guess I've never found it annoying as I usually stop playback when I move or add plugins (got burned by a few crashes on old versions of cubase when trying to do this).
I was with you, until I tried Studio One...

It's one of those things that you don't even notice until you use another DAW and notice how smooth it is to add/copy/paste plug-ins/vsti's, or add/remove tracks, or route them, and then you come back to Cubase and it feels so clumsy and stuttering.

Take this (fairly typical scenario), one producer in a room with a couple of topliners working on a song idea, producer is working on the track while the writers are doing their thing, every time the producer wants to do anything on Cubase it glitches the audio...

need to load up a new synth sound as you have inspiration for a new lead line? - glitch
need to load up a rough vocal channel cos someone has a killer melody? - glitch
need a cool creative reverb/delay effect on a vocal part? - glitch

It's an absolute creativity killer and the writers don't understand, as they probably use logic or ableton at home which both play smoothly, so it reflects badly on us for using Cubase.

Even if you don't collaborate, once you get used to the workflow of looping a short section to work on it and experimenting with fx/extra vsti layers it's really distracting when the audio cuts out every time you do one of these things, it really kills the flow of what you are working on.

Someone else also mentioned ear/brain fatigue from mentally compensating from all those tiny stops and starts whilst you are trying to concentrate on the audio. I hadn't considered this previously. but I believe this is also a great point.
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by brycem » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:54 pm

I can totally appreciate that it would be annoying. I just hadn't realised the gap was that long as I've adapted my workflow to the fact that cubase isn't capable of adding or moving plugins on the fly :) If it's possible to make the audio engine gapless, stable, and with rock-solid phase-accurate delay compensation then I'm all for it :)
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by n0nspaz » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:10 pm

+1
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Steve Helstrip » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:55 pm

Let's keep this thread going and hopefully have this in time for Christmas.
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Zoberflote » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:29 am

Not sure if this is related but I noticed that when I have "Track Selection Follows Event Selection" checked in my Preferences, audio cut outs occur when I'm moving between different events/tracks. When this box is not checked, these cut outs do not happen. I made a post about this in the "Issues" forum.

Also, there are cut outs when "Sync Selection in Project Window and Mix Console" is selected and I am selecting different tracks/events during playback.

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by mozizo » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:25 pm

Zoberflote wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:29 am
Not sure if this is related but I noticed that when I have "Track Selection Follows Event Selection" checked in my Preferences, audio cut outs occur when I'm moving between different events/tracks. When this box is not checked, these cut outs do not happen. I made a post about this in the "Issues" forum.

Also, there are cut outs when "Sync Selection in Project Window and Mix Console" is selected and I am selecting different tracks/events during playback.
as far as i can tell from my experience cubaendo 10,has more drops from various actions than previous cubendo versions.
the good news,users see that many other DAWs resolved this issue,and finally steinberg pay attention probably, and it's on the feature request poll.hopefully ver 10.5 rinsome news regarding this
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by mitchiemasha » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:02 pm

+1...

I wish all the people who've mentioned it here voted for it as #1 priority in the last poll. Perhaps then it would of beat export to video at #2. It did get high at #11 but I expected it to be in the top 5 at least.

It never used to bother me much, thinking it was a given but, it's getting more annoying with every session.
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by currentsound » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:07 am

I was thinking about this the other day. I could easily have an assistant mix my productions while I'm creating them by using the control surface an extra computer screens already in the studio if the audio didn't cut out. This would mean I could finish songs quicker and take on more clients. At the moment, the mixing needs to be done afterwards. The same as when recording, mixing could be done at the same time.

There is one major problem with that workflow though, it doesn't need just a continuous playing audio engine but also a Cue-solo function like on DJ mixers and radio station panel mixers instead of soloing so that tracks can be cued instead of soloed and the cue set to either a set of headphones or a Cue output that is created and setup in the control room.

There should also be a way to flip the solo buttons on Eucon control surfaces to act as Cue buttons or a simple 'solo to cue' function in the mixer that makes all solo buttons act as Cue buttons instead.

Then to make it even better, if multi touch support was added, a second screen could be used to mix a song while the song was being created or recorded.

So, I'd suggest:
Continuous Audio Player
Mixer Cue-solo buttons and seperate Cue-solo output in the Control Room that is assigned to mixer Cue-solo buttons
Mixer 'Solo to Cue-solo' link button
Muti-Touch support

This equals another person that can mix a song while the song is being produced or recorded which is an almost twice as fast workflow which means quicker turn around times and more money for busy studios and professionals.

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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by sonic74 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:30 am

mitchiemasha wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:02 pm
+1...

It never used to bother me much, thinking it was a given but, it's getting more annoying with every session.
I am pretty sure it's damaging in multiple ways.
Last edited by sonic74 on Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by sonic74 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:32 am

New year's resolution for Steinberg :

Gapless Audio Engine
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by currentsound » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:06 pm

sonic74 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:32 am
New year's resolution for Steinberg :

Gapless Audio Engine
lol. Nice one.

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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by mozizo » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:53 pm

Actually it would be nice to have it even without payed upgrade necessarlly in the future.its kind of mandatory now days
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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by In_Stereo » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:46 pm

I've been deeply learning Reaper, and once you use gapless audio, when you come back to Cubase you feel like you're tripping down stairs every time you do so many things. Let's catch up will all other DAWs!
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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by audiosprite » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:41 am

+1
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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by simthembile » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:43 am

In Cubase 11, this will be history.

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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by wagzy » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:07 am

+1 Gapless Audio.
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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by Anubian » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:50 am

+1

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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by auggybendoggy » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:40 pm

+1

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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by john charles » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:23 pm

+1

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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by kostal » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:31 am

+1

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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by outerspacecat » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:07 pm

+1000 The most annoying issue when you are used to work with Logic, Live and Studio One. These constant interruptions of the audio stream are the biggest (work)flow killer in Cubase.

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Re: Proper audio engine: Gapless Audio!

Post by svennevs » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:24 am

+1

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