Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post general topics related to Cubase Pro 10, Cubase Artist 10 and Cubase Elements 10 here.
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by miul »

nordlead26 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:45 am
kampot wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:57 pm
Cubase used to be industry leading DAW in the days of cubase SX and prior.
But now other DAWs like studio one, logic, reaper etc have functions and stability that cubase lacks, and cost much less.
even thou cubase has some unique features, but it's still behind others especially with no ARA2 support, not as intuitive as other DAWs, very laggy preset manager, etc.
Maybe because Steinberg think they're still the leaders ? They're not anymore , they contributed alot to the DAW industry with VST, VST3, ASIO etc. But after the part of the Steinberg team left Steinberg and went to AIR / Avid, Presonus etc, everyone left at steinberg don't really know what they're doing anymore
give example of what lags or functions ... make a list
I think if you read a bit above, you will find enough of them

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by greggybud »

In_Stereo wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:37 am
I want to stay with Cubase because of how advanced it is for film scoring and large-scale song production over the other DAWs I've tried (including Studio One), and it would benefit every single person on this forum if they made it their highest priority to make the workflow as fast as possible. This does NOT mean turning Cubase into another DAW, but it DOES mean being inspired by new (even some old!) designs of others and implementing them into the Cubase environment in the Cubase way.
The recent long-standing bug addressing disable/enable track export/import that messed up midi assignments has finally been fixed. I think this shows some dedication toward film commercial composers who desire enhanced workflow. When a concept shows up first in another DAW, I think it takes Steinberg a bit more time to integrate it in Cubase due to it's age.

I agree with this basic concept of improved workflow. I have been raging about workflow and core functions ever since the release of outsourced 3rd party stuff like LoopMash and then later on...sigh....new and improved LoopMash. :roll: wondering if Steinberg would ever re-focus on basic core functions of a DAW and stop doing what 3rd parties can often do better. However I think there is a threshold where the user also needs to take what is given in Cubase, and customize it to the next level by configuring user specific objectives with tools that go far beyond the scope of Cubase.

I feel some users get sucked into the DAW controller trap ultimately becoming unhappy because MCU won't take them near as far as they thought. Then they realize the ultimate solution is Yamaha Nuage until you see the price. DAW controller is fine for very basic mixing, but most users want much more DAW integration than what MCU protocol allows.

Personally, for users who desire streamlined and much more fast workflow, and understand the solution isn't a MCU DAW controller, Metagrid greatly improves speed because of the following:

1. a button for every available Cubase key command,
( However agreeing with your basic post which is Steinbergs responsibility, I wish they would add the missing key commands, then update the very outdated search method. Then update the entire KC window including improving creating micros, and organize it so the user knows which Cubase windows belong to which KCs. I'm thinking this has been ignored for years because frankly, KC's don't sell Cubase. Reliance on speed and specifically KC's is something that becomes a value over time and with a maturing DAW environment I think that time has come.)
2. integrate Cubase Macros,
3 integrate logical presets,
4. integrate 3rd party logical presets created by that famous pirate Jono,
5. a organizational method for anyone who use hundreds of tracks
http://www.metasystem.io/video/video.html

In my world, this is how I got more fast. It wasn't a MCU DAW controller, it wasn't a wireless phone app, it wasn't Soft tube console integrating my UAD tools...It's $14 Metagrid that could make it worth buying a used iPad, or in my case, permanently borrow my wife's iPad, while still proclaiming I don't belong to the religion of Apple.

So when you ask for improved fast streamlined workflow, make sure it really benefits the basic user, and isn't a function of something that should be an extension of Cubase.
The latest Cubase version, Wavelab 10, Intel Core i9 7920X @ 2.90GHz Windows 10 64bit, 64 gig all SSD drives (Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050ti, 2 34" LG ultra wides and 1 28" all @2560x1080) iCon QconPro, Metagrid, 4 MidiTimePiece's = 32in/outs, UAD-2, SoundToys, NI, Waves, Arturia, and lots of hardware synthesizers most of them controlled by MidiQuest 11.

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by In_Stereo »

greggybud wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:47 pm
In_Stereo wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:37 am
I want to stay with Cubase because of how advanced it is for film scoring and large-scale song production over the other DAWs I've tried (including Studio One), and it would benefit every single person on this forum if they made it their highest priority to make the workflow as fast as possible. This does NOT mean turning Cubase into another DAW, but it DOES mean being inspired by new (even some old!) designs of others and implementing them into the Cubase environment in the Cubase way.
The recent long-standing bug addressing disable/enable track export/import that messed up midi assignments has finally been fixed. I think this shows some dedication toward film commercial composers who desire enhanced workflow. When a concept shows up first in another DAW, I think it takes Steinberg a bit more time to integrate it in Cubase due to it's age.

I agree with this basic concept of improved workflow. I have been raging about workflow and core functions ever since the release of outsourced 3rd party stuff like LoopMash and then later on...sigh....new and improved LoopMash. :roll: wondering if Steinberg would ever re-focus on basic core functions of a DAW and stop doing what 3rd parties can often do better. However I think there is a threshold where the user also needs to take what is given in Cubase, and customize it to the next level by configuring user specific objectives with tools that go far beyond the scope of Cubase.

I feel some users get sucked into the DAW controller trap ultimately becoming unhappy because MCU won't take them near as far as they thought. Then they realize the ultimate solution is Yamaha Nuage until you see the price. DAW controller is fine for very basic mixing, but most users want much more DAW integration than what MCU protocol allows.

Personally, for users who desire streamlined and much more fast workflow, and understand the solution isn't a MCU DAW controller, Metagrid greatly improves speed because of the following:

1. a button for every available Cubase key command,
( However agreeing with your basic post which is Steinbergs responsibility, I wish they would add the missing key commands, then update the very outdated search method. Then update the entire KC window including improving creating micros, and organize it so the user knows which Cubase windows belong to which KCs. I'm thinking this has been ignored for years because frankly, KC's don't sell Cubase. Reliance on speed and specifically KC's is something that becomes a value over time and with a maturing DAW environment I think that time has come.)
2. integrate Cubase Macros,
3 integrate logical presets,
4. integrate 3rd party logical presets created by that famous pirate Jono,
5. a organizational method for anyone who use hundreds of tracks
http://www.metasystem.io/video/video.html

In my world, this is how I got more fast. It wasn't a MCU DAW controller, it wasn't a wireless phone app, it wasn't Soft tube console integrating my UAD tools...It's $14 Metagrid that could make it worth buying a used iPad, or in my case, permanently borrow my wife's iPad, while still proclaiming I don't belong to the religion of Apple.

So when you ask for improved fast streamlined workflow, make sure it really benefits the basic user, and isn't a function of something that should be an extension of Cubase.
Agreed on many fronts. I've been using Metagrid for a while now and couldn't work without it. I don't use any other kind of controller -- I have no use for them personally.

What I'm referring to are mostly things that can't be addressed with Metagrid -- they are internal things that slow down workflow which I've outlined in many other posts, and when improved will serve to speed things up for everybody...well, again, everybody except for those who might be irrationally glued to an older, slower way of doing them (which is an odd phenomenon I see here sometimes). There are plenty of ways that Cubase is fast and plenty of ways that it's not. Most of the things I've mentioned benefit both basic users and advanced users.
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by kampot »

it’s almost impossible to find modern producers that made hits recently in pop music that used cubase.
It’s mostly Logic X, ProTools, or Ableron Live

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs ?

Post by kampot »

-steve- wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:26 pm
kampot wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:57 pm
[...]But after the part of the Steinberg team left Steinberg and went to AIR / Avid, Presonus etc, everyone left at steinberg don't really know what they're doing anymore
This is the very definition of trolling- making untrue statements and insulting actual human beings.

Look at the names in the About dialog of various versions of Cubase over the years, are the same names there, year after year? Yes.

And frankly speaking, if you don't know the workflow of other DAWs how would you be able to estimate their utility?

Sorry for the harshness, but the Internet Negative Bias Distortion Factor means that complaints are more prevalent than positive comments throughout the Internet. This then feeds more complaints, which energizes the cycle producing more complaining, which in turn feeds more complaints etc., etc.,
Not trolling. Here are some facts.

Here is about Presonus Studio One:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_ ... _software)

Studio One originally began development under the name K2, as a follow-up to the KRISTAL Audio Engine.[1] Although development for this follow-up began in 2004,[2] it transitioned in 2006 to a cooperation between PreSonus and KristalLabs Software Ltd., a start-up founded by former Steinberg employees Wolfgang Kundrus and Matthias Juwan.


And here is about A.I.R. (Former Wizoo - Steinberg Partner) :

https://www.airmusictech.com/company

Based in Germany, AIR Music Technology started as Wizoo Sound Design, one of the earliest pioneers in virtual instrument technology. The AIR team is responsible for the core of much of the effects offerings in Avid’s Pro Tools® software, and also developed a suite of award-winning virtual instruments specifically for Pro Tools.


https://www.steinberg.net/en/newsandeve ... d-295.html

Steinberg/Wizoo VSTi’s discontinued

January 2, 2008
Steinberg has today announced a change in the status of older products developed together with Wizoo Sound Design GmbH.



Previously a development partner of Steinberg, Wizoo has since been acquired by Digidesign. This acquisition ended the development partnership between Steinberg and Wizoo.

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by pkmusic »

Interesting timing because I'm nearly at the end of an album that's taken a year. In that time I upgraded to 10. In order to make it easier for my collaborators, I have been putting wavs into the DAW they use and sending them project. This has meant becoming a bit familiar with ProTools, Logic and Studio One. I have used Reaper as well. It's been hard work but it has made it faster. Imo, there is no DAW that has it all. But for me, Cubase is the most creative DAW. It's the integration of MIDI and recording that works very well. Since the latest update, I can thrash the program all day and I get a lot of work done. Integration with WaveLab is especially nice, because I use that a lot. I think the program is going well and I don't want it try and be all things to everyone.
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by telecode »

kampot wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 am
it’s almost impossible to find modern producers that made hits recently in pop music that used cubase.
It’s mostly Logic X, ProTools, or Ableron Live
the word is "prodoozah". with the double "oo"'s in da middle and an "ah!" at the very end!

:D
be cool,

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by Winter Rat »

kampot wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 am
it’s almost impossible to find modern producers that made hits recently in pop music that used cubase.
It’s mostly Logic X, ProTools, or Ableron Live
Perhaps you should become the first one?
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs ?

Post by Centralmusic »

I came from Pro Tools, Logic and S1. Looong time PT and Logic user.

And I must say: its the opposite - all the other DAWs langs behind Cubase 10! this is a fact.

Cubase 10 has all the nice features that I were missing and which I know from Studio One - event effects, more inserts, vsti pics, file browser e.g.
Simple drag volume automation like pro tools is also now possible. And Cubase´s Mix Console and visibility management are a dream!
S1 is obsolete for me now.

Cubase is THE winner in all areas - great Midi Editing, Composing, Mixing, Film Score, Sound Design etc etc...
+ 1
!!! NOTE: This is a user forum. It's from users to users. This is not a technical support forum. Therefore sometime some Steinberg employees appear here and help the users. !!!
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by silhouette »

A lot of this debate is pointless to me. Cubase is there. I use it all the time. I write stuff. I play stuff. I edit stuff. I experiment with stuff. I collaborate with stuff. I mix stuff and even master stuff. It works and does not get in my way. In fact it is second nature. I haven't had any real issues for years. I like the GUI (mostly), so why would I want to change?
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by silhouette »

kampot wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 am
it’s almost impossible to find modern producers that made hits recently in pop music that used cubase.
It’s mostly Logic X, ProTools, or Ableron Live
Don't use your own experience to judge others! It just makes Cubase more attractive to me.

By the way it is "Bampot".
Intel core i7 5960X CPU 3.0 GHz 64bit 32 gig RAM - Windows 10 - AMD RadeonHD 7700 - RME Fireface UC - Cubase 10.5 - UAD Solo + Duo + Quad - Nektar Panorama P1 - Komplete 12 - All uhe - Adam AX7 + Adam Sub 8 - BFD3 - Alchemy - PSP - FabFilter - Fender Telecaster- Wudtone Strat - Gibson L4, 335x2,330L,175 -Ibanez PM100 - Musicman Silhouette x 3 - Warwick Thumb Bass - Kemper Profiling Amp -https://soundcloud.com/silhouette-17

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by skijumptoes »

kampot wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 am
it’s almost impossible to find modern producers that made hits recently in pop music that used cubase.
It’s mostly Logic X, ProTools, or Ableron Live
The funny thing about this, is that myself coming from a Logic background many people feel the same in regards to Logic. The view is many producers step up to Pro Tools when it comes to putting a commercial track out, despite starting in Logic. And the same applies to all DAWs, Pro Tools is just industry standard, Logic is used in education, Ableton has the EDM market and comes bundled with controllers. Cubase is a choice, and if you've picked it you should know why.

Fact is, it just comes down to whats in the studio for commercial artists, all start on a variety of DAWs, and they all achieve pretty much the same thing. But, If Cubase is most suited to the songwriting/creative phase of the track and Pro Tools used for the final mixing and release then whats the issue? I don't buy a guitar or keyboard based on the number of hits it's been on.

The only way you'd ever know how a DAW has affected commercial music is to go back into history and delete it from existence, return back and see the results. There's many many songwriters enpowered by what Cubase delivers. Let's just celebrate that eh? If you start being overly critical then where does it stop? Most people are with partners who have faults, and it's part of the fabric of life or things just get boring.

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by kampot »

LOL, come on, No need to be so butthurt people, facts are facts. Just trying to have here a healthy discussion, if you are a snowflake and can’t face reality and get offended easily don’t post anything in this thread, go watch spongebob or something.

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs ?

Post by kampot »

JimH wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:20 pm
kampot wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:33 pm
and dont want to switch to another DAW like Reaper, Logic or StudioOne becuase of re-learning of workflow.
So the other DAWs are better but you don't want to have to learn how to use them. Doesn't make sense to me.
Because I have invested over $1,000 in cubase throughout the years.

And Cubase can be the best DAW if some things get fixed and some thing get added

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by silhouette »

skijumptoes wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:25 am
kampot wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 am
it’s almost impossible to find modern producers that made hits recently in pop music that used cubase.
It’s mostly Logic X, ProTools, or Ableron Live
The funny thing about this, is that myself coming from a Logic background many people feel the same in regards to Logic. The view is many producers step up to Pro Tools when it comes to putting a commercial track out, despite starting in Logic. And the same applies to all DAWs, Pro Tools is just industry standard, Logic is used in education, Ableton has the EDM market and comes bundled with controllers. Cubase is a choice, and if you've picked it you should know why.

Fact is, it just comes down to whats in the studio for commercial artists, all start on a variety of DAWs, and they all achieve pretty much the same thing. But, If Cubase is most suited to the songwriting/creative phase of the track and Pro Tools used for the final mixing and release then whats the issue? I don't buy a guitar or keyboard based on the number of hits it's been on.

The only way you'd ever know how a DAW has affected commercial music is to go back into history and delete it from existence, return back and see the results. There's many many songwriters empowered by what Cubase delivers. Let's just celebrate that eh? If you start being overly critical then where does it stop? Most people are with partners who have faults, and it's part of the fabric of life or things just get boring.
I agree wholeheartedly. Pro Tools is, or was a tape recorder in code. The midi functionality it has now is an afterthought. Studio's invested large sums in the hardware and are/were disinclined to dis-invest. There was a ubiquity to it's use and less of a reason to move on to a new DAW. Cubase was always the best choice for a home studio as it has always offered a secure midi platform together with the ability to cope with any live recording situation - overdubbing - mixing, you name it. I chose Cubase on Atari and have stuck with it ever since, evolving and learning with it.
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by shanabit »

kampot wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:13 pm
LOL, come on, No need to be so butthurt people, facts are facts. Just trying to have here a healthy discussion, if you are a snowflake and can’t face reality and get offended easily don’t post anything in this thread, go watch spongebob or something.
Until you actually use StudioOnePro, LogicProX and Reaper (I do here) to get a feel of what is and what isn't Im afraid your summation is off. I can make a list of features for each of these that are missing that Cubase has implemented. ARA2 is coming and has been slow to roll out with all the DAWS and is still buggy in them all and for sure will be when Cubase gets it.

Cubase needs MultiTrack Audio Warping more than anything as it's current method is cumbersome. Im no Cubase fanboy here and have been on it since SX1 BTW (Still my preferred DAW).

Always room for improvements of course. Why do you give a crap who made what hit on what DAW? It doesn't matter at all and especially the drivel they call hits these days.

That said, you should grab Reaper for $60 and give it a go. StudioOne has Prime which is FREE as well.
Bang on bro 8-)

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by skijumptoes »

kampot wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:13 pm
LOL, come on, No need to be so butthurt people, facts are facts. Just trying to have here a healthy discussion, if you are a snowflake and can’t face reality and get offended easily don’t post anything in this thread, go watch spongebob or something.
Lifes like a box of chocolates, Forest.

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by Manike »

kampot wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:13 pm
LOL, come on, No need to be so butthurt people, facts are facts. Just trying to have here a healthy discussion, if you are a snowflake and can’t face reality and get offended easily don’t post anything in this thread, go watch spongebob or something.

It's not a healthy discussion once you start calling people snowflakes and tell them to go watch Spongebob.
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by telecode »

This thread a big snore fest. If you like the DAW buy it because it's on sale. If you don't, go get another one. It's really pointless wasting time *witch* about why it doesn't work like other vendors DAWs. Its a totally different product. You either like it or you don't.
be cool,

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by uarte »

Manike wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:09 pm
kampot wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:13 pm
LOL, come on, No need to be so butthurt people, facts are facts. Just trying to have here a healthy discussion, if you are a snowflake and can’t face reality and get offended easily don’t post anything in this thread, go watch spongebob or something.

It's not a healthy discussion once you start calling people snowflakes and tell them to go watch Spongebob.
+1 - I don't appreciate forum members who resort to ad hominem attacks or even general name-calling.

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by jjjooonnn »

Cubase is the best DAW with no question. and I've used them all.
The only place they're lacking, in my opinion, is having an updated step sequencer for drums.
I've spoken to a lot of people about 3rd party programs they use for drums in Cubase, which I think is crazy.
They genuinely need to update beat designer. I love the idea of it, but it needs a refresh for the modern era.

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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by In_Stereo »

There is no other DAW that works as well for what I do as Cubase does (at least the others that I've tried or used so far).

That said, I do think that those who think it's perfect or near-perfect will always be happier with tweaks to make the workflow faster and more efficient. You can argue personal opinion about how the GUI looks, what actual features you want or don't want, etc., etc. -- but improvements to workflow speed (i.e. less clicks and mousing about are always better than more clicks and mousing about) benefit every single human working on Cubase, which is why I feel that should be the primary focus for Steinberg for upcoming releases.

And for those that prefer working in a slower way in some ways for some reason, well...progress happens, such is life. :-)
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs? (or does it?)

Post by TheDude »

skijumptoes wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:40 pm
TheDude wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:29 pm
I am actually considering to spend my Cubase upgrade money on Studio One in November, if there will be no GUI and at least some audio editing/mixing enhancements.
I've come from being a Mac based Logic user who's swapping to Windows machine, so i've gone through Studio One and REAPER and now at Cubase trying desperately to find a replacement DAW.

...

I could just be experiencing the emperors news clothes of course, but this is definitely a worthy replacement to Logic so far, and if it enables me to stay with windows then my next purchase will be a beast of a machine which would be the cost of a car with Apple! :)

Thanks for the heads up about the Studio One - I will fully road-test it with a couple of upcoming projects around October/November, before the next version of Cubase comes out, to discover all the good, the bad and the ugly and to make my conclusions.

Switching from Pro Tools to Cubase a couple of years ago wasn't an accident for me either - infinite tracks, no lousy subscription schemes, convenient MIDI workflows, included tools/content and the overall performance are really good. All I am saying is, that Studio One's well laid out GUI, where everything is at your fingertips (less mousing/clicking), is what gives me a "studio boner". And an audio editing "Smart" tool. And the mixer channel colors. And a properly implemented HiDPI display support. And several other small, but convenient things, that make a real difference..

In_Stereo wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:39 pm
There is no other DAW that works as well for what I do as Cubase does (at least the others that I've tried or used so far).

That said, I do think that those who think it's perfect or near-perfect will always be happier with tweaks to make the workflow faster and more efficient. You can argue personal opinion about how the GUI looks, what actual features you want or don't want, etc., etc. -- but improvements to workflow speed (i.e. less clicks and mousing about are always better than more clicks and mousing about) benefit every single human working on Cubase, which is why I feel that should be the primary focus for Steinberg for upcoming releases.

And for those that prefer working in a slower way in some ways for some reason, well...progress happens, such is life. :-)

In_Stereo totally gets me - for the "weekend warriors" speed might not matter (and it didn't for me, when I was starting out), but doing more in less time becomes very sexy very fast, when you have deadlines to meet. Easy is good.

Most of the features, that I personally want/need, already exist in Cubase - its just the implementation, that is less than optimal. I don't mean to mock anyone, but sometimes it seems, that GUI design decisions are an afterthought or are made by someone, who hasn't really worked in the audio production before and doesn't fully understand the user's perspective..

Let's hope, that the good people at Steinberg occasionally check out this forum and will destroy this silly assumption with the next Cubase release.

Convenience is where my munez goes :) Just sayin'..

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Carlo
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs ?

Post by Carlo »

auggybendoggy wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:46 am
** Off topic **

Carlo, Atari ST my friend! Rock on. Man I love that thing! Still have my STE in my garage.
:D :D :D
Who did not love Atari?
Rock on!

skijumptoes
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Re: Why Cubase lags behind other DAWs ?

Post by skijumptoes »

Carlo wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 3:10 pm
Who did not love Atari?
Amiga owners, we had the sound chips AND MIDI! :)

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