Record In Editor turns itself off

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bender-offender
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Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by bender-offender »

After going through some tests, I believe there is a bug in the Key Editor with the “record in editor” button.

1. Open a MIDI region in a Key Editor window (not the Lower Zone). If “record in editor” is not enabled, enable it.

2. Save the project and leave the Key Editor window open, then quit Cubase. [EDIT] Key Editor needs to be open but not the focused window.

3. Reopen the project and check and see if “record in editor” is still enabled.

On my system, I have two displays and I open the Key Editor on my 2nd display then I lock it to a screenset. So I’m not sure if either of these two aspects affect the “record in editor” issue I’m having.

Like I’ve mentioned in other threads, I don’t think this “record in editor” was a good implemation into Cubase 9. It serves no purpose. The Key Editor worked just fine in past versions of Cubase. The Solo editor button, on the other hand, DOES make sense.
Last edited by bender-offender on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,

Sorry I don't see the result in your post and am expected result.

Is the Record enable or not after the 3rd step?

Myself I wouldn't expect it. Record Enable state is not stored with the project in general as far as I know, and all Record enabled tracks are disabled after project open (but the selected track). It's for security reason to don't overwrite (record) some tracks by accident.
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by mozart »

I too have problems with "Record in Editor" being very hit or miss as to whether it will be enabled or not.

I also agree that I don't think it's a good implementation and should be dropped in future versions. Previous versions of the key editor worked fine.
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by bender-offender »

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:23 am
Hi,

Sorry I don't see the result in your post and am expected result.

Is the Record enable or not after the 3rd step?

Myself I wouldn't expect it. Record Enable state is not stored with the project in general as far as I know, and all Record enabled tracks are disabled after project open (but the selected track). It's for security reason to don't overwrite (record) some tracks by accident.
Hi Martin,

Thanks for testing this out.

After further testing, I found that you need to have the Key Editor not in focus, then save the project and reopen. I uploaded an MP4 to my Google Drive of a new session after deleting my preferences so that there's nothing on my end influencing this issue (hopefully).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bjbc40 ... sp=sharing
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,

To me it makes sense, it's not Record enabled in this use case.
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by bender-offender »

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:31 pm
Hi,

To me it makes sense, it's not Record enabled in this use case.
Hi Martin,

I strongly disagree. This is a bug (or poorly designed). If it was designed to turn off automatically then it would turn off every time Cubase is opened regardless of whether any editor was left open or not. When I exit Cubase with “record in editor” enabled in the Lower Zone and no Key Editor window opened, then “record in editor” is still engaged when I reopen Cubase.

In past versions of Cubase (8.5 and earlier — as well as Logic), if you wanted to record in the editor, you would simply have it in focus. If you did not want to record in the editor, you didn’t have it in focus. This worked great and perfect, so why add a second record button?

Also, this is not a safety feature. “Undo” and “Retrospective Record” are a safety feature. MIDI isn’t destructive audio; it can be undone or finely edited if one was to accidentally record over existing MIDI data.
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

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bender-offender wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:42 am

Like I’ve mentioned in other threads, I don’t think this “record in editor” was a good implemation into Cubase 9. It serves no purpose. The Key Editor worked just fine in past versions of Cubase. The Solo editor button, on the other hand, DOES make sense.
I rely quite heavily on 'record in editor'. I do orchestral composing and am flying around editing a ton of tracks. So if I am on a track in the project, but I click on another track's part and it opens in the editor, with 'record in editor' it will record to that track/part without having to go to the project and change tracks as a separate step. Maybe I misunderstand your statement "I don’t think this “record in editor” was a good implemation into Cubase 9" and you are just referring to the saving of the record state? I have never needed to save a project that I needed the record state saved, is that so you know where you left off? Which would make some sense.
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by bender-offender »

Paulwr wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:09 am
bender-offender wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:42 am

Like I’ve mentioned in other threads, I don’t think this “record in editor” was a good implemation into Cubase 9. It serves no purpose. The Key Editor worked just fine in past versions of Cubase. The Solo editor button, on the other hand, DOES make sense.
I rely quite heavily on 'record in editor'. I do orchestral composing and am flying around editing a ton of tracks. So if I am on a track in the project, but I click on another track's part and it opens in the editor, with 'record in editor' it will record to that track/part without having to go to the project and change tracks as a separate step. Maybe I misunderstand your statement "I don’t think this “record in editor” was a good implemation into Cubase 9" and you are just referring to the saving of the record state? I have never needed to save a project that I needed the record state saved, is that so you know where you left off? Which would make some sense.
Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply. :) I, too, do orchestral composing and have loads of tracks I'm going to and from, so I am in the same boat as you.

What I am referring to about the "record in editor" situation is in the past versions of Cubase (8.5 and earlier), when you were working in the Key Editor and it's the focused window, it would automatically record in any MIDI data I performed into that region, regardless of which track is selected in the Project Window. As it is now (Cubase 9.0 and later), if I open a MIDI region in the Key Editor and "record in editor" is not enabled, when I record in the MIDI CC data, Cubase creates a separate region that overlaps the region I had opened in the Key Editor. This now creates double the work because I need to glue the regions together. So, no, I'm not referring to the Project Window's record state.

What I believe to be an issue isn't so much the "record in editor" function, but that when I leave it enabled and come back to the same project the next day, the button is now disabled. The bug is that if I have the Key Editor opened in a separate window (not the Lower Zone) with "record in editor" enabled and the editor is in the background, exit Cubase, then reopen, "record in editor" is now disabled. However, if I have "record in editor" enabled in the Lower Zone Key Editor, exit Cubase, then reopen, it is still enabled (as it should be). So my point is "record in editor" should stay enabled unless I specifically turn it off -- the same way "solo in editor" works.

Does this all make sense? :)
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by Paulwr »

ah, yes, I understand. Yes, I'd prefer not to need to hit the record button. Really, why else would we be performing the part while focused in the Key Edit area?
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by bender-offender »

Paulwr wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:16 am
ah, yes, I understand. Yes, I'd prefer not to need to hit the record button. Really, why else would we be performing the part while focused in the Key Edit area?
Thanks, Paul -- exactly my point. :)

That's why I asked who'd want to be in the Key Editor with the intention to record but not want the data to end up in that region. If you didn't, you'd simply have the Project Window in focus -- again, like older versions of Cubase.

Glad you were able to understand. :D
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by stan-k »

OK, so I, too, have a problem with Record in Editor, but only after updating to 9.5. The feature worked flawlessly in 9.0, now it's just all over the place.

I have a two monitor setup - sequencer on one, Key Editor on the other. I used to be able (in 9.0) to keep the Editor open and just select parts in the sequencer, then edit/record CC data in the Key Editor. And I only had to activate Record in Editor once (I think I didn't even have to re-enable it after opening a closed session.)

Now, what happens is you open a part, click the Record in Editor button in the Key Editor, record MIDI CC, then select another part, and even though Record in Editor is still active, the data is not written into the Key Editor, but into the sequencer. What helps is if you turn Record in Editor off and on again. Then you can record into the Key Editor again.

So, to me it definitely looks like a bug, and I even submitted it as such to Steinberg, but it has not been fixed in the recent update.

I don't understand why they had to break something which worked perfectly fine in 9.0.

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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,

If I remember right (but I have to say I'm not 100% sure), there was a specification change in this area from Cubase 9.0 to Cubase 9.5. That would explain it. Bu unfortunately I don't remember the details.
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by stan-k »

Hi Martin,

do you know if this has been fixed in C10 or does it behave the same way as 9.5?

I am seriously considering reverting to C9.0 at this point. This bug makes my work so much harder...

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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,
bender-offender wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:42 am
1. Open a MIDI region in a Key Editor window (not the Lower Zone). If “record in editor” is not enabled, enable it.

2. Save the project and leave the Key Editor window open, then quit Cubase. [EDIT] Key Editor needs to be open but not the focused window.

3. Reopen the project and check and see if “record in editor” is still enabled.
On my side in Cubase 10, the Record in Editor is disabled in this case.
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by stan-k »

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:29 pm
On my side in Cubase 10, the Record in Editor is disabled in this case.
Do you have to deactivate and then reactivate Record in Editor every time you select a new part like in 9.5?

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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

stan-k wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:14 pm
Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:29 pm
On my side in Cubase 10, the Record in Editor is disabled in this case.
Do you have to deactivate and then reactivate Record in Editor every time you select a new part like in 9.5?
When I select another MIDI Part in the project window (project area), the focus jumps to the Project window (project area). So the Record in Editor becomes inactive. It's not red anymore, but it's white. Which means, once the focus will be back in the Key Editor, the Record in Editor becomes active (red). What also happens if I click back to the Key Editor.

If I have multiple MIDI Parts selected at once, and switching between the MIDI Parts by using Currently Edited Part menu, the Record in Editor remains active (red).
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by bender-offender »

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:10 pm
stan-k wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:14 pm
Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:29 pm
On my side in Cubase 10, the Record in Editor is disabled in this case.
Do you have to deactivate and then reactivate Record in Editor every time you select a new part like in 9.5?
When I select another MIDI Part in the project window (project area), the focus jumps to the Project window (project area). So the Record in Editor becomes inactive. It's not red anymore, but it's white. Which means, once the focus will be back in the Key Editor, the Record in Editor becomes active (red). What also happens if I click back to the Key Editor.

If I have multiple MIDI Parts selected at once, and switching between the MIDI Parts by using Currently Edited Part menu, the Record in Editor remains active (red).
In no blame to you, Martin, but this “record in editor” button is absurd. I’ve said it many times — in Cubase 8.5 and earlier, as well as in Logic (and every other DAW I’ve used), when you have the Key Editor window in focus, it is assumed that whatever you record is going to go into that selected region.

Again, when has anyone ever been working in the Key Editor and NOT wanted to record MIDI into that region? Honestly, answer me that question.

If you did not, you’d simply make the Project window the focused window again. I just don’t understand the purpose of the “record in editor” button. And when I say “purpose”, I mean exactly that. Yes, people I’ve spoken to on this forum and directly at Steinberg have told me what this button does, but I’d like to know exactly what Steinberg’s intentions were when implementing this idea.

The biggest issue with all of this is what was once a single (easy) step is now two or more (based on the additional steps needed to glue the new region to the original).
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by stan-k »

Thanks for testing this, Martin.

I don't really have a problem with the button itself, the problem is that in 9.5, when you activate it, record into the editor, then pick another part, then go back to the editor, the button is still red and activated, but when you start recording, it does not record into the editor, but creates a new part in the sequencer. So, now I have to turn it off and then back on again, otherwise it will just continue recording into the sequencer and not the editor like it's supposed to. This kind of thing never happened in 9.0, and like bender-offender said, it recorded into the active window - makes perfect sense to me.

And I also agree with everything bender-offender said, they have just overcomplicated things to such an extent that I actually went back to 9.0 and gonna continue working on the project there. This is truly ridiculous how Steinberg just broke a perfectly adequate and functional feature – if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Sadly, this really cripples my workflow. I will wait until the C10 trial is available and hope that it's back to normal in that one...

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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by stan-k »

OK, fellas, it turns out that we were wrong...

In the Preferences (⌘,) in the Editing section (at the very top) you have to activate ['Edit Solo'/'Record in MIDI Editors' follow Focus]. Now it works as before, at least it does for me. Select any part you want, make the editor window active, and it records directly into the editor.

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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

stan-k wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:57 pm
OK, fellas, it turns out that we were wrong...

In the Preferences (⌘,) in the Editing section (at the very top) you have to activate ['Edit Solo'/'Record in MIDI Editors' follow Focus]. Now it works as before, at least it does for me. Select any part you want, make the editor window active, and it records directly into the editor.
I'm glad you found a solution for you.
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Re: Record In Editor turns itself off

Post by -steve- »

stan-k wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:57 pm
OK, fellas, it turns out that we were wrong...

In the Preferences (⌘,) in the Editing section (at the very top) you have to activate ['Edit Solo'/'Record in MIDI Editors' follow Focus]. Now it works as before, at least it does for me. Select any part you want, make the editor window active, and it records directly into the editor.
Except that this is about a different question and not the OP topic– which asks about the button remaining enabled over close/reopen of Cubase app and project when said window is not focused.
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