Fingering and String Numbering

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2handband
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Fingering and String Numbering

Post by 2handband »

About 80% of everything I notate is for fretted instruments used in a classical context, and/or ensembles including them. I'm a little concerned about fingering. The only fingering I've found so far is what is standard for pianists, with guitar fingering conventions nowhere to be found. Also, if there's an input for string numbers I have not found it yet.

I might also point out that unless there is a shortcut I'm missing the input protocol for the fingering that does exist is painfully slow. Do these features exist, or at least are they on the near-term path to implementation? I'm looking at dropping quite a bit of money here, and for my work this stuff is critical.

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dankreider
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by dankreider »

Until fingering is more speedy to enter, if this is a major workflow consideration for you, I highly recommend a Stream Deck. It's $140 and worth every penny (IMO).

Fingering is a breeze on it. Check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=246&t=142671&hilit=stream

One keypress to add a fingering and advance to the next note.
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pianoleo
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by pianoleo »

Guitar fingering will come when tab comes, which is not yet. I’d bet money that when it turns up it’ll blow the competition out of the water.
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by 2handband »

dankreider wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:24 pm
Until fingering is more speedy to enter, if this is a major workflow consideration for you, I highly recommend a Stream Deck. It's $140 and worth every penny (IMO).

Fingering is a breeze on it. Check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=246&t=142671&hilit=stream

One keypress to add a fingering and advance to the next note.
Thanks, but it's not just speed. I need to be able to input standard classical guitar string numbers and fingering indications. If I absolutely can't do it in Dorico, and there's no expectation of short-term implementation, that's a showstopper. I have to have it.

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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by pianoleo »

There are hideous workarounds but if I were you I’d wait.

On the basis that: “80% of everything I notate is for fretted instruments used in a classical context, and/or ensembles including them.”
Last edited by pianoleo on Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pianist/accompanist/engraver/arranger
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by 2handband »

pianoleo wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:42 pm
There are hideous workarounds but if I were you I’d wait.

In the basis that: “80% of everything I notate is for fretted instruments used in a classical context, and/or ensembles including them.”
That sucks... I was looking forward to ending my relationship with Sibelius. Granted, Sibelius doesn't do this natively either but there's a really good set of plugins for the job. So far Dorico seems better in almost every way, but this is an absolute must-have feature for me. I'm going to keep getting acquainted with it for the duration of my trial period, but after that I'll have to check back once the guitar features get implemented.

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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by R Pearl »

There are string indications: Playing Techniques>Scroll down to Guitar, and open that pane - string indications are there. Personally, I find them too large, so I select them and reduce them to 82%. For right hand fingering, we have to use text - select a pitch and hit Shift-x. Same for fret indications. However, just as in Sibelius, once you have used one of these (say a VII) you can click and alt-click it when it is used again.
So, left hand fingering, check.
Right hand - sort of.
String indications, check.

Not perfect, but not too bad, either.

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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by dankreider »

R Pearl wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:27 am
There are string indications: Playing Techniques>Scroll down to Guitar, and open that pane - string indications are there. Personally, I find them too large, so I select them and reduce them to 82%. For right hand fingering, we have to use text - select a pitch and hit Shift-x. Same for fret indications. However, just as in Sibelius, once you have used one of these (say a VII) you can click and alt-click it when it is used again.
So, left hand fingering, check.
Right hand - sort of.
String indications, check.

Not perfect, but not too bad, either.
You can easily create custom playing techniques to your heart’s content! And invoke it via any custom shortcut you want.

Not sure there’s a need for any workarounds. But perhaps I’m not understanding the exact request.

If the playing technique editor is the solution, I’d recommend the StreamDeck. Easy to program macros into it, and assign any custom playing techniques to the user-defined keys!

These are precisely the sorts of things that StreamDeck is made for: oft-repeated functions that can’t be mapped to a single key command.
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by R Pearl »

@Dan - yes, I'm aware. I don't use the Streamdeck, but was just responding to the OP with regards to what is currently there, in Dorico.

I may have to look into this, myself. I haven't found the time usage to be inhibiting - so far...

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dankreider
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by dankreider »

Sorry RPearl, I responded to the wrong comment!
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2handband
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by 2handband »

R Pearl wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:03 am


I may have to look into this, myself. I haven't found the time usage to be inhibiting - so far...
It's actually pretty bad. I have to shift-F for every single individual note I want to put fingering on. To fully finger a score takes practically forever done this way.
R Pearl wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:27 am
There are string indications: Playing Techniques>Scroll down to Guitar, and open that pane - string indications are there. Personally, I find them too large, so I select them and reduce them to 82%. For right hand fingering, we have to use text - select a pitch and hit Shift-x. Same for fret indications. However, just as in Sibelius, once you have used one of these (say a VII) you can click and alt-click it when it is used again.
So, left hand fingering, check.
Right hand - sort of.
String indications, check.
Found the string indications... holy gods those are huge. Where in the context menu is the option to resize? And is that something you can automate, or do you have to do it individually for every one?

I don't care about right-hand fingering; I never include it. But for left-hand I want to be able to put it right next to the note since that is what is standard in guitar scores as opposed to the piano convention of placing it vertically above the staff. And I need a streamlined process; I input a great number of these things every day.

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dankreider
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by dankreider »

2hand,

Use the playing techniques editor.

And I feel like a broken record, but... Streamdeck solves your problem.
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by 2handband »

dankreider wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:10 am
2hand,

Use the playing techniques editor.

And I feel like a broken record, but... Streamdeck solves your problem.
In the playing techniques editor... not seeing an option to resize. Hope I'm not being a pain, but I really do want to solve this... I really would prefer NOT to renew my Sibelius subscription. I'm looking into the streamdeck gizmo. I'd prefer it to be solved with software rather than hardware, but I may not have that option just yet.

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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by MarcLarcher »

Dear 2handband,
You can input all you playing techniques, and then select them all with the filter to perform a "batch scaling"
I found that Dan's idza with the Stream deck is very efficient, specially when it comes to fingering, adding playing techniques or intervals. This little object is stunning.
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by R Pearl »

2handband wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:46 am
dankreider wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:10 am
2hand,

Use the playing techniques editor.

And I feel like a broken record, but... Streamdeck solves your problem.
In the playing techniques editor... not seeing an option to resize. Hope I'm not being a pain, but I really do want to solve this... I really would prefer NOT to renew my Sibelius subscription. I'm looking into the streamdeck gizmo. I'd prefer it to be solved with software rather than hardware, but I may not have that option just yet.
To resize: you can enter all the string indications, then Filter for Playing Techniques; hit Command-8 (Mac), and you'll see the Scale option there.

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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by Romanos401 »

2handband wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:30 am
R Pearl wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:03 am


I may have to look into this, myself. I haven't found the time usage to be inhibiting - so far...
It's actually pretty bad. I have to shift-F for every single individual note I want to put fingering on. To fully finger a score takes practically forever done this way.

I'm still holding out hope that they will one day implement a "fingering mode". I think it would be brilliant if there was a toggle in write mode (just like there is for note spacing or stave spacing in engrave mode) where you could just arrow around between notes and press number keys to add fingerings. It would be in keeping with their current UI and would greatly speed things up. I know that Daniel has mentioned (many times) that Dorico has difficulty figuring out how to progress between notes however I'd be content if we could arrow around the same way we can in a score where the orange note head pops around. I don't need auto advance (lyric style). I'd be more than happy to arrow around the score. I think this would be brilliant.
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by Romanos401 »

I'll also add in case Daniel sees this, it would be nice to be able to assign fingerings to either custom key commands or midi commands. I'd love to program midi shortcuts on my keyboard. I'm loving the midi assignability of many of the functions. My keyboard has 48 midi programmable buttons above the piano keys and it's a phenomenal way to interact with the program. (As always, I'm more than happy to wait my turn for features I'd like to see implemented!)
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dankreider
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by dankreider »

Romanos, you can do that now with really very little fuss. Not strictly "native" to Dorico, but easily done. Are you Windows or Mac?
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Romanos401
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Re: Fingering and String Numbering

Post by Romanos401 »

Mac. I've decided to just do some Macros on my keyboard in the meantime.
🎵 Director of Sacred Music, Organist, Choral Conductor, Composer; Adjunct Organ Instructor at Goshen College
💾 Dorico 3.5 pro, Noteperformer, Hauptwerk 5 Advanced, StudioOne pro 4.6, On1 2020, FinalCut Pro, Camtasia, Wavelab Elements
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