Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Discussions about our next-generation scoring application, Dorico.
Post Reply
User avatar
dwlarson
Junior Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:05 am
Location: Greeley, CO, USA
Contact:

Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by dwlarson » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:02 am

Okay, I'm at my wits' end with this. I have a score [hymn style] which had lyrics with a second verse underneath the first verse. I decided to write out all the measures without repeats or anything for that second verse (and successive verses). I copy/pasted the section, then filtered lyrics for Line Two and pasted into the new section, filtered Lyrics of that section (which were considered as Line Two), right-clicked and selected the various options to make the lyrics Line One. Easy, right?

That immediately swapped the lyrics of the PREVIOUS section I had copied (Verse 1 became Verse 2). When I tried to filter Lyric Line Two of THAT section (to restore it to the original Lyrics Line One), well, everything when awry. It seems that copy/pasting Lyrics from previous sections, then trying to assign them to a certain line position (like Line One), they are still "connected" to the previous section, and changes that as well.

The only thing I could do was to delete the lyrics tagged as Line Two and retype everything. Is it not possible to filter [lower] verses and paste them into other sections as Lyrics Line One? I even tried selecting ALL lyrics and defining them as Line One, but to no avail.

What's really crazy is that if I selected a passage (let's say Stanza Two, where the lyrics are identified as Line Two) and make them Line One, the previous verse lyrics (which were Line One) now become Line Two, and are spaced accordingly. This happens in several subsequent passages with the same copy/paste actions. I am not able to select a second verse (lyrics Line Two) and paste it into another section as Lyrics Line One. Any filtering/selecting/changes affect the original selection as well. Is this the intended behavior?

This file probably started as a Photoscore scan XML imported into Dorico. I did all the typical import actions (reset appearance/layout/stems/beams, remove clefs, etc.), fixed the lyrics as needed in their appropriate line position (lyrics line one, lyrics line two, etc.). Is it not possible to reassign existing lyrics to different lyric line positions?
Win10, i7, 16GB, Dorico 3.1.10, Noteperformer 3.3.1
Sibelius 2019.5 (and holding), Photoscore 7.02
Hauptwerk
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st gen)
Church musician/arranger

User avatar
MarcLarcher
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3775
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:38 am
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by MarcLarcher » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:47 am

Hi dwlarson.
I'm not sure I really understood what your problem was. Just one workflow you might not have tried : select the section you want to change, filter lyrics line 2. In the properties panel, you should see line 2, change it to line 1. Does that give you the result you want ? If necessary, filter lyrics line 1 before and delete them.
Marc Larcher

OS X 10.14.6, macbook pro retina Late 2013
Opera singer (lyric tenor), photographer, sound engineer, XeLaTeX user and music engraver (Dorico Pro 3.5, and Photoscore Ultimate 2020.1.14(9.0.2))
French is my native language

User avatar
pianoleo
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 7391
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:17 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by pianoleo » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:59 am

Marc, dwlarson seems to be saying that when lyrics are copied and pasted they become linked, like linked dynamics. By the looks of things, if you type lyrics in bars 1-8 and then copy them to bars 9-16, it’s impossible to edit them in bars 1-8 without automatically editing them in bars 9-16.

I don’t have a solution, I’m afraid.
Pianist/accompanist/engraver/arranger
2019 Macbook Pro 16" 2.3gGHz 8-core i9, 32GB RAM,
2015 Macbook Pro 13" Retina 3.1GHz dual-core i7, 8GB RAM; running Sibelius Ultimate, Logic Pro X, Dorico Pro 3.5 etc.
& 2017 HP ZBook Studio G3 15.6” UHD quad-i7, 16GB RAM, Windows 10 Pro
Sibelius user since Sibelius 7 (Acorn, 1997), Ex-Sibelius user since Dorico 1.0

User avatar
Daniel at Steinberg
Moderator
Posts: 17109
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:35 am
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:46 am

I'm mystified by this report, and can't make any sense of any of it. Try the following:

1. Start a new project using e.g. the 'Choir SATB, unaccompanied' template.
2. Add a 4/4 time signature.
3. Enter four quarters in the first bar.
4. Add the lyrics "one", "two", "three", "four" to the notes in the first bar.
5. Select the notes and lyrics in the first bar and hit R to repeat it.
6. Now try editing any of the lyrics in bar 2. The lyrics in bar 1 are unaffected.
7. Select the lyrics in bar 2 and copy them to the clipboard.
8. Select the first note in bar 1 and paste: the new lyrics are pasted on top of the existing ones.
9. Without changing the selection, change the 'Lyric line' property to line 2. You now have two lines of lyrics.
10. Again, try editing any of the lyrics in line 2 in bar 1. The lyrics in line 1 bar 1 and in line 1 bar 2 are unaffected.

If you're getting different results to me, please let me know how and what you're doing. Under the hood, lyrics are designed such that they can be linked together, but this functionality is not currently exposed, and Dorico will not link them together.

Derrek
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: East Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by Derrek » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:10 pm

I think this illustrates what the OP wants to do but cannot. The Dorico file is annotated to describe the problem.
testLyrics.zip
(259.67 KiB) Downloaded 37 times
Dorico Pro 3.5.0.1020, Finale (v26), GPO, JABB3, GWI, NotePerformer 3, CuBase Pro 10.5 newbie
Windows 10 (also Mac Catalina as alternate)
US English Keyboard

Derrek
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: East Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by Derrek » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:40 pm

As a follow-up, I tried the following:
  1. Use the Edit > Filter to copy just the notes of the selection.
    Image
  2. Use the Edit > Filter to cut just the Verse-2 lyrics and paste them into the notes just copied.
    Image
  3. With those copied lyrics selected under the new notes, use the Properties to change the lyrics from Verse-2 to Verse-1.
    Image
copyLyrics01.png
(10 KiB) Not downloaded yet
copyLyrics02.png
(9.71 KiB) Not downloaded yet
copyLyrics03.png
(43.04 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Dorico Pro 3.5.0.1020, Finale (v26), GPO, JABB3, GWI, NotePerformer 3, CuBase Pro 10.5 newbie
Windows 10 (also Mac Catalina as alternate)
US English Keyboard

User avatar
dwlarson
Junior Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:05 am
Location: Greeley, CO, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by dwlarson » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:58 pm

Derrek, we might be on to something here. Instead of cutting Verse 2, just copy so you can see what happens.

If I use the Properties panel to change the the newly pasted lyrics to Line 1, all is good. Now do exactly the same thing but Rt-click and select Lyrics|Line|Line 1. They will change to Line 1, and the first section lyrics will swap as well. This is also true using Translation Line 1, etc.

If using the Properties panel, all works well. If using Rt-click menu options, the lyrics remain linked. Interesting!
Win10, i7, 16GB, Dorico 3.1.10, Noteperformer 3.3.1
Sibelius 2019.5 (and holding), Photoscore 7.02
Hauptwerk
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st gen)
Church musician/arranger

randywombat
Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by randywombat » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:02 pm

I get the same problematic behaviour as dwlarson. Here is the sequence:

(1) Create a flow with two empty bars.
(2) In the first bar, input some notes.
(3) Under those notes, input two verses of lyrics, set as 'line 1' and 'line 2'.
(4) Select everything in the first bar and press R to copy it to the next bar.
(5) Delete both lines of lyrics under bar 2.
(6) Marquee-select the line 2 lyrics (only) in bar 1.
(7) Alt-click to copy the selected lyrics under the notes in bar 2.
(8) With the lyrics in bar 2 still selected, choose Edit > Lyrics > Line > Line 1.

The result is that the lyrics in bar 2 change to line 1 as expected, but it also causes the two lines of lyrics in bar 1 to swap lines, even though nothing in bar 1 was selected.

This behaviour is exhibited anytime the lyrics are copied to a new location in the score; they remain mysteriously linked to the lyrics in bar 1 from which they were originally copied.

The strange behaviour doesn't happen if you use the properties panel to change the lyric line, rather than Edit > Lyrics > Line > Line 1.

[edit: our posts crossed, but we have both made the same discovery]

Derrek
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: East Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by Derrek » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:28 pm

My "solution" does not use R to repeat the initial measure. It uses the Edit > Filter to copy only the notes. I then Filter and copy the Verse-2 lyrics to the copied notes separately so they are not linked.

I am not claiming that dwlarson is wrong; I am saying I found a way to work around the problem. Even though Dorico may ultimately change the way their program works to make this situation easier, at present I believe my solution is the most efficient option to accomplish what I think dwlarson is trying to do.
Dorico Pro 3.5.0.1020, Finale (v26), GPO, JABB3, GWI, NotePerformer 3, CuBase Pro 10.5 newbie
Windows 10 (also Mac Catalina as alternate)
US English Keyboard

randywombat
Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by randywombat » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:37 pm

Derrek wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:28 pm
My "solution" does not use R to repeat the initial measure. It uses the Edit > Filter to copy only the notes. I then Filter and copy the Verse-2 lyrics to the copied notes separately so they are not linked.
Yes, there are certainly workarounds -- in fact, the bug only arises in a specific set of circumstances, so most of the time a workaround won't even be needed. Still, it's intriguing to identify the quirk, and hopefully useful to the developers when they come to squash it.

Derrek
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: East Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by Derrek » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:45 pm

I agree that identifying the quirk is helpful for the developers. My initial thought was that the OP was at wits end for a solution (any solution?) and that those seeking to help did not fully understand the OP's problem.

When I then found a solution, I wanted to share it so the OP could get on with the project if he or she had not found another way.
Dorico Pro 3.5.0.1020, Finale (v26), GPO, JABB3, GWI, NotePerformer 3, CuBase Pro 10.5 newbie
Windows 10 (also Mac Catalina as alternate)
US English Keyboard

User avatar
dwlarson
Junior Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:05 am
Location: Greeley, CO, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by dwlarson » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:17 pm

I'm not seeking a solution any more (retyping a couple verses was far faster than puzzling out why it was an issue). Now we have identified a definite quirk (bug?) in that different procedures which SHOULD produce identical results do not.

+Changing the pasted Line 2 lyrics to Line 1 with the Properties panel panel produces expected results.

+But...changing the pasted Line 2 lyrics to Line 1 lyrics through the Edit menus (Rt-click or top Menu) keeps the pasted lyrics linked to the initial copy -- BOTH change verse lines, even if only one line is selected.

I thought I had uploaded a file demonstrating the issue, but perhaps it didn't come through. I'll try again tonight when I get home.
Win10, i7, 16GB, Dorico 3.1.10, Noteperformer 3.3.1
Sibelius 2019.5 (and holding), Photoscore 7.02
Hauptwerk
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st gen)
Church musician/arranger

User avatar
dwlarson
Junior Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:05 am
Location: Greeley, CO, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by dwlarson » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:51 pm

Take a look at the enclosed file. In Write mode, section B lyrics were copied from section A, then pasted into section B.

Follow these directions closely:

1. Select the lyrics in section B (you'll see in the Properties panel that they are indeed Verse 2).
2. Using the Edit menu (NOT the Properties panel), choose Edit|Lyrics|Line|Line 1.
3. The verses in section A swap places, even if they are not selected; section B lyrics are now Verse 1 as desired.
4. Even more curious, selecting just ONE word in section A or B and changing the Verse Line through the EDIT menu (not the Properties panel) makes the entire verse in both sections swap verse lines. :o

Right-clicking into the menu or using the dropdown menu at the top makes no difference --results are the same. Changing even one word to Line 1 Translation, or Chorus, or anything else makes the entire verse change accordingly.

Using the Properties panel produces the expected results, but the menus do not.

Try for yourself.
(Oops, the board limit for attachments has been reached -- I can't attach the file until something is cleared out). Will try again later.


~Dennis
Win10, i7, 16GB, Dorico 3.1.10, Noteperformer 3.3.1
Sibelius 2019.5 (and holding), Photoscore 7.02
Hauptwerk
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st gen)
Church musician/arranger

User avatar
dwlarson
Junior Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:05 am
Location: Greeley, CO, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by dwlarson » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:31 pm

lyrics test file attached
Attachments
lyrics test2.zip
(301.84 KiB) Downloaded 33 times
Win10, i7, 16GB, Dorico 3.1.10, Noteperformer 3.3.1
Sibelius 2019.5 (and holding), Photoscore 7.02
Hauptwerk
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st gen)
Church musician/arranger

User avatar
dwlarson
Junior Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:05 am
Location: Greeley, CO, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by dwlarson » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:01 pm

Has anyone been able to confirm this anomaly (bug) yet? Daniel, have you had a chance to look at what's happening?
Win10, i7, 16GB, Dorico 3.1.10, Noteperformer 3.3.1
Sibelius 2019.5 (and holding), Photoscore 7.02
Hauptwerk
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st gen)
Church musician/arranger

Derrek
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: East Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by Derrek » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:36 pm

It has only been two days since your last post--and on a weekend at that!
You have a work-around if your need is pressing.
Dorico Pro 3.5.0.1020, Finale (v26), GPO, JABB3, GWI, NotePerformer 3, CuBase Pro 10.5 newbie
Windows 10 (also Mac Catalina as alternate)
US English Keyboard

User avatar
Daniel at Steinberg
Moderator
Posts: 17109
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:35 am
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:20 pm

Sorry that it's taken me a while to get around to looking at this.

When you select a lyric and choose Edit > Lyrics > Line > Line 1, you are changing the line for all lyrics in that line, not only the selected lyric or lyrics. And it is intentional that if you change the line number for an existing verse of lyrics, rather than removing the other lyrics altogether, it swaps them around.

To achieve the result you want in this case, you need to select the lyrics in the second section, use Edit > Filter > Lyrics to select only the lyrics, then in the Properties panel, set the 'Line number' property to 1.

User avatar
dwlarson
Junior Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:05 am
Location: Greeley, CO, USA
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by dwlarson » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:51 pm

Thanks for explaining this, Daniel. Coming from Sibelius (where right-clicking for menu actions is common), it strikes me as a bit counter-intuitive that using the menus produces different actions than using the properties panel. But I do get what you're doing here -- in Sib that would be a change to the Text design itself. Dorico makes such changes to the entire lyric line easily without selecting it. But it does cause a bit of confusion until one sees the difference between the Edit menu and the Properties panel. Thanks for clearing it up, and keep up the great work! :D
Win10, i7, 16GB, Dorico 3.1.10, Noteperformer 3.3.1
Sibelius 2019.5 (and holding), Photoscore 7.02
Hauptwerk
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st gen)
Church musician/arranger

mijostrauss
New Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:57 am
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by mijostrauss » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:53 am

Hi Daniel, your workaround doesn't solve the problem.
Even when only one section is filtered, the lines are changing in the other not selected sections.
Thank you for helping!

User avatar
Daniel at Steinberg
Moderator
Posts: 17109
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:35 am
Contact:

Re: Lyrics copy/paste verses bug?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:03 pm

Can you be a bit more specific, mijostrauss, and perhaps attach a project and some steps to reproduce the specific problem you're seeing?

Post Reply

Return to “Dorico”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kimfierens, scoremasters and 7 guests