Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by TimoWildenhain » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:28 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:59 pm
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:57 pm
twelvetwelve wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:53 pm


Can't you simply let Cubase launch if it detects a certain Nuendo license? No need to send out additional licenses that one can sell.
This is technically not possible, unfortunately.
Well, not economically desirable is what you mean, correct?

After all with throw particles into each other at the speed of light and analyze petabytes of data to find new particles in the universe, and manage to measure gravitational waves... so, you know... one license for two softwares?... It's not astrophysics...
No, it is technically not possible. Really.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by umfufu » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:32 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:28 pm
No, it is technically not possible. Really.
Without elaboration it is a bit hard to understand how this is not possible.

It's also a little confusing because you wrote that if this is what we meant then you could get behind it. Now we say 'it is', and you say it's impossible.
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:28 pm
If you would be fine with starting either Cubase or Nuendo with the same dongle, I could agree.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by Sugar » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:18 pm
Sugar wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:25 am
For sake of clarity. I remember Steinberg's statement several years ago, that thanks to a [then] new modular coding structure, Cubase and Nuendo share the same code, which would allow an efficient parallel development, and that Nuendo would always have all Cubase features.
Now, your statement implies that it's no longer the case, and that you basically have to code the same features twice. My question is, did you abandon the modular approach? Otherwise, what is the difficulty of merging both programs.
See my other comment above. Both programs share a common sequencer code basis, but on top of that, the code is getting more divers.
It sounds like a terrible waist of resources. Having to port Cubase features to Nuendo instead of maintaining a single application (yes... like PT). This certainly explains why we have to wait so long for Nuendo to catch up with each development cycle.

[SARCASM]You know, in theory, two groups could talk to each other to avoid doing the same work twice.[/SARCASM]

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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by Getalife2 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:21 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:14 pm
If you would be fine with starting either Cubase or Nuendo with the same dongle, I could agree. I’m not sure our Cubase division will release additional licenses to Nuendo users that can freely be shared or sold separately as a second product.
Abso-freakin'-lutely for my part. If my N8 dongle could also open the current version of Cubase, that would be a gamechanger for me, finally ending the awkwardness of the Tick-Tock of the update cycles. If that involves loading a seperate sub-license on the same dongle only, I have no problem with that. There is no desire for trickery or something-for-nothing. Just the desire to have access to Steinberg's top DAW features when paying the 300% premium for Nuendo.

If you can get that approved, I/we would be ever so grateful!

And again, thanks for all of the answers. I know it takes a little time, but it makes a big difference for me.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by ChrisPolus » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:40 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:59 pm
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:57 pm
twelvetwelve wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:53 pm
Can't you simply let Cubase launch if it detects a certain Nuendo license? No need to send out additional licenses that one can sell.
This is technically not possible, unfortunately.
Well, not economically desirable is what you mean, correct?
One may hope that with a new and more flexible licensing system in the works (that hopefully doesn't rely on dongles), this could be a required use case of that system?
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by ChrisPolus » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:04 pm

First of all, thanks for all the responses.
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:57 pm
ChrisPolus wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:16 pm
For game audio, when it comes to the creation of countless SFX, this is not linear such as a movie or piece of music is. Is there anything in planning to cater to this workflow?
That being said, I’m not saying there’s no room for improving SFX layering. But workflows are very divers. Often, the folder structure is being used to create a grid for different sound layers. Sometimes these sounds are brought together as sound blocks. But the biggest challenge is the recreation of the sounds within the game environment, so that the round-trip time between e.g. Wwise and Nuendo can be reduced. We have some ideas though ;-)
Exactly. I meant visual organization of many multi-track sound effects. So they are easier to find in a big project, easier to manage and rename. You mentioned folders, which is one way. But folders are not active, you cannot render folders. I don't know what you mean by sound blocks but it would be nice for example to being able to quicker render a multi-track sound effect. Select all events and then...? Bounce in place renders each of the clips individually. Render selected events does the same, just to disk instead of the project. There's only the normal audio mixdown process, which is tedious as you have to set the L and R locators, hit render, give it a name, import it again. SFX cannot be handled like stems, or whole tracks. They're individual bits of several tracks of layered audio material. It would help for example to handle the folder events (the events that display when you close a folder) as real events you can render in "render selected events" or "bounce in place". Put several tracks in a folder, close the folder, select that folder-event and hit render selected event. That would be such a time saver to render out many multi-track SFX.
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:57 pm
ChrisPolus wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:16 pm
that Steinberg might be a little understaffed.
Well, yes. We are looking for more, new, skilled people. To be honest, finding developers that are not only developers but also devoted toward our industry is not an easy task.
Maybe some Cakewalk people are willing to move ;)
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:57 pm
ChrisPolus wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:16 pm
interface of Nuendo and de-clutter it?
Oh yes, but that’s a huge task. However, we have an internal working group that analysis ways on how the application can be operated smoother and faster. One big step in that direction has been done with WaveLab 9 generation.
Oh this is truly music to my ears and I can't wait to see this implemented.
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm
ChrisPolus wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:17 pm
replace the unflexible eLicenser dongle with something more modern
Yes. This is, however, a long-term work as it will affect all our database/license management systems.
This is also great to hear as I'm losing my mind over this daily. Having an eLicenser AND an iLok doubles the chance to just lose one of them. So I mostly leave them in the studio, and could then pull my hair out when I would desperately need them on the road. It's a real productivity killer. I could open Logic, Reaper, Studio One, Reason, use my Waves and Native Instruments plugins, fix something with RX and use Ozone and Neutron, ... but I cannot open Nuendo to get any work done.
I hope long-term doesn't mean decade but a product cycle or two :-/
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:50 am

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:28 pm
No, it is technically not possible. Really.
On July 21, 1969 Neil Armstrong put his foot on the moon. Then he managed to get back here to earth.
Fly-by-wire: a380 carries max 850+ people and a 1.25 million ton weight... computers...

But more on-point: If it's possible for you to somehow allow me to run Nuendo v1-6 using my Nuendo v7 license, but not v8, then how on earth is it technically impossible to re-write the code so that I could also run Cubase? (though not both at the same time obviously)

Sorry, it may seem like I'm being needlessly arguing this, particularly since I have no dog in this fight, but I really find it incredibly hard to believe it's technically impossible. Time travel is technically impossible, as is traveling faster than light. I don't think this is. I have an extremely hard time seeing how this is anything other than an economic issue.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by Getalife2 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:14 am

MattiasNYC wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:50 am
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:28 pm
No, it is technically not possible. Really.
On July 21, 1969 Neil Armstrong put his foot on the moon. Then he managed to get back here to earth.
Fly-by-wire: a380 carries max 850+ people and a 1.25 million ton weight... computers...

But more on-point: If it's possible for you to somehow allow me to run Nuendo v1-6 using my Nuendo v7 license, but not v8, then how on earth is it technically impossible to re-write the code so that I could also run Cubase? (though not both at the same time obviously)

Sorry, it may seem like I'm being needlessly arguing this, particularly since I have no dog in this fight, but I really find it incredibly hard to believe it's technically impossible. Time travel is technically impossible, as is traveling faster than light. I don't think this is. I have an extremely hard time seeing how this is anything other than an economic issue.
I'm gonna stick my neck out here and attempt to clarify what I think Timo is saying.

I think he is saying that SB may be open to allowing Nuendo users to run Cubase as well.

I think what he is also saying is that the means by which SB would do that (if they do) will not be via the specific technical mechanism you are requesting.

Two different answers for two different questions.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:36 am

I understand what he's saying. But he makes a fairly good point when he says that it'd be a possible problem to hand out Cubase licenses to Nuendo owners if the licenses are 'untied' because users might resell them. That then becomes a monetary issue, meaning loss of revenue.

Now, I actually wrote Nuendo users could get a Cubase license as well, but what I really meant (but didn't write clearly) was that Nuendo users should get one license to open either DAW. So it's interesting that Timo took what I wrote literally (which is understandable), because when he did that he put the finger on the actual issue. And of course it's true you can program software so that one license can cover two apps. And so "we can't" really means "we won't", and the reason for that is again money/resources.

Again though, I think other users would probably be far more happy about getting Cubase than me, I care pretty much exclusively about Nuendo.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by Romantique Tp » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:19 pm

I have no idea what post production people even want to do with this Cubase license. If they gave Nuendo licenses the ability to run Cubase then it would only run the versions of Cubase released before that Nuendo version.

If you just want to try the new features then you can just wait for the Cubase 9.5.10 update and download the trial version to get a good idea of what you'll be able to do in the future.
Every time someone says "it must be easy to add/fix", a programmer dies.

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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by TimoWildenhain » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:27 pm

Hi everyone,

ok, maybe I have been unclear on this.

Now to make it very clear: it is not possible that a current Nuendo license can open a newer Cubase license.
The system cannot look up the Nuendo version and make a newer Cubase license available. I'm not going to explain
the technical background on this.

Finding ways to integrate features faster in Nuendo, that have been released with Cubase first, is a topic
we discuss. However, there are many side effects on the development as mentioned.

Thanks,
Timo
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by TimoWildenhain » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:39 pm

Sugar wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 pm

It sounds like a terrible waist of resources. Having to port Cubase features to Nuendo instead of maintaining a single application (yes... like PT). This certainly explains why we have to wait so long for Nuendo to catch up with each development cycle.

[SARCASM]You know, in theory, two groups could talk to each other to avoid doing the same work twice.[/SARCASM]
Well, the underlying branch structure is still one sequencer structure for both applications. However, the natural branching of the
code adds complexity, agreed. But there are no two teams doubling work. There are the core sequencer teams, the music and pro audio teams, including also WaveLab. The beauty of the two-brand solution is that you have dedicated teams and products. With a one-product solution (like PT), you would have to cater for ALL possible user groups with every release of that one product (e.g. music, post, broadcast, games, live, scoring, mastering....). Typically, companies just running one-brand product strategies offer more generic features but less dedicated functions for a certain type of work. Which won't make you happy in the long run, as it rarely speeds up your work. Also, the number of external tools and workarounds is much higher with such products.

Thanks,
Timo
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by TimoWildenhain » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:43 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:36 am
I understand what he's saying. But he makes a fairly good point when he says that it'd be a possible problem to hand out Cubase licenses to Nuendo owners if the licenses are 'untied' because users might resell them. That then becomes a monetary issue, meaning loss of revenue.

Now, I actually wrote Nuendo users could get a Cubase license as well, but what I really meant (but didn't write clearly) was that Nuendo users should get one license to open either DAW. So it's interesting that Timo took what I wrote literally (which is understandable), because when he did that he put the finger on the actual issue. And of course it's true you can program software so that one license can cover two apps. And so "we can't" really means "we won't", and the reason for that is again money/resources.

Again though, I think other users would probably be far more happy about getting Cubase than me, I care pretty much exclusively about Nuendo.
You are right with regards to the second license. We simply cannot provide every Nuendo user a second, freely moveable Cubase license. The Cubase product management wouldn't agree on that.

With regards to the technical solution, please refer to my previous post. However, I'm sure that will be possible with the next generation of our licensing system.

Best,
Timo
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by ChrisPolus » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:38 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:43 pm
With regards to the technical solution, please refer to my previous post. However, I'm sure that will be possible with the next generation of our licensing system.
Which answers my question / what I had hoped. That's good to hear. Now let's hope the new licensing system is not 5 years away.

I'm really grateful you answering all these questions. It clarifies the direction SB is taking and what work is being done behind the scenes currently, both short and long term. I now know better what to expect and I can adjust my needs accordingly. If I need something quicker than your roadmap, I can use another DAW, if I can wait for a feature I know is in the works, then it's easier to bear andwait. But at least I know and I can act!

I'm sure we would all be glad if you'd be here more often. It doesn't always have to be you, Timo, of course, I guess you have a lot on your plate. But somebody from Steinberg, a regular QA person, a link between development and forum, at least acknowledging that a reported bug has been registered and work to fix it is under way and when to expect a fix, so we don't get the feeling of talking into a black hole. Also support tickets being closed without comment doesn't help, which we've heard a few times here. So having somebody that can update us on the status would be extremely highly appreciated. Again, to make decisions on how to continue with owr own projects: Do I wait for a fix or do I need to look elsewhere to solve a problem.

Sometimes, a fix is only scheduled for the next regular update cycle, which takes a few months. It would be great if critical bugs (e.g. highly marketed features that don't work) would be fixed with special patches that don't take months. I don't know if testing stands in the way of quickly delivering a hot fix, because so many cases have to be tested or what the problem is.
Last edited by ChrisPolus on Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by jorisdeman » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:47 pm

For what it's worth, I'm currently demoing C9.5 and must give SB a lot of credit for making the UI a lot more responsive.

On my new PC at least, the GUI is fast; I'd say on a par and possibly faster than N7, which is a great improvement. I've not had the chance to try this on the Mac yet though.
The new automation and click track are both fab too, and very welcome features.

Whatever this new licensing scheme is, I hope in the future it will overcome the leapfrogging issue that we currently have.
I appreciate that not all post people are interested in Cubase's feature set, but for someone like me who's less post and more music composition/game audio production based, they are all worthy and well thought out additions to the feature set.

It might sometimes take a loooong time for Cubendo to catch up with some of the features of other DAW's, but I have to give props for the fact that when they do, they often exceed the functionality of other DAW's.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:44 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:43 pm
You are right with regards to the second license. We simply cannot provide every Nuendo user a second, freely moveable Cubase license. The Cubase product management wouldn't agree on that.
I wouldn't agree to it either if I was in their position.
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:43 pm
With regards to the technical solution, please refer to my previous post. However, I'm sure that will be possible with the next generation of our licensing system.
I think this is a difference in how we use language. I meant that software could be programmed so that it was possible, not that it currently could easily be done. So we're basically saying the same thing then. Sorry if that was confusing.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:53 pm

Romantique Tp wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:19 pm
I have no idea what post production people even want to do with this Cubase license. If they gave Nuendo licenses the ability to run Cubase then it would only run the versions of Cubase released before that Nuendo version.
What I was suggesting was that the version nomenclature be synchronized. By that I didn't mean just changing what they're called, but making sure that a Nuendo v8 actually has all the features of Cubase v8. I could be wrong, but it seems as if the two apps are now "mislabeled". Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Nuendo v8.x to include all the features of Nuendo v9.x? So let's just say for the sake of the point I was making that they're 'synchronized'.

Now what you say above isn't really the case. Cubase gets released before Nuendo, meaning that if there are new features for both Cubase gets them first and then Nuendo. Since a fair amount of users over the years have been annoyed by Nuendo always getting those same features later even though it was paid for the solution would be to get the ability to run that version of Cubase. So, it would be something that was released before Nuendo, but belonging to the same level of development, the same 'sequencer version' (again assuming they're "synchronized").

That was what I meant.

As for why someone would use it? There seems to be people here making good use of Nuendo's features that aren't post-only, that aren't Nuendo-only. So if your workflow allows for it you could actually benefit from doing certain things in Cubase and then switch over to Nuendo to finish. The line between music and post as far as what we do might be pretty clear, but the line between what features we use in either isn't as clear in my opinion. For example: New sampler features - for music sampling or for film sound design???
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by TimoWildenhain » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:14 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:53 pm
Romantique Tp wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:19 pm
I have no idea what post production people even want to do with this Cubase license. If they gave Nuendo licenses the ability to run Cubase then it would only run the versions of Cubase released before that Nuendo version.
What I was suggesting was that the version nomenclature be synchronized. By that I didn't mean just changing what they're called, but making sure that a Nuendo v8 actually has all the features of Cubase v8. I could be wrong, but it seems as if the two apps are now "mislabeled". Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Nuendo v8.x to include all the features of Nuendo v9.x? So let's just say for the sake of the point I was making that they're 'synchronized'.

Now what you say above isn't really the case. Cubase gets released before Nuendo, meaning that if there are new features for both Cubase gets them first and then Nuendo. Since a fair amount of users over the years have been annoyed by Nuendo always getting those same features later even though it was paid for the solution would be to get the ability to run that version of Cubase. So, it would be something that was released before Nuendo, but belonging to the same level of development, the same 'sequencer version' (again assuming they're "synchronized").

That was what I meant.

As for why someone would use it? There seems to be people here making good use of Nuendo's features that aren't post-only, that aren't Nuendo-only. So if your workflow allows for it you could actually benefit from doing certain things in Cubase and then switch over to Nuendo to finish. The line between music and post as far as what we do might be pretty clear, but the line between what features we use in either isn't as clear in my opinion. For example: New sampler features - for music sampling or for film sound design???
Hi Matthias,

in terms of nomenclature, the difference in versioning resulted simply in different lifecycles and different release timings. Cubase now gets an update every year; so in order to get the features first introduced with Cubase into Nuendo asap, we would have to make a Nuendo update also every year. I'm not saying this is no option, but according to the feedback we got over the years, Nuendo users are rather hesitant with updating their application (major update) every year.

Well, it's hard to say which version (Cubase or Nuendo) gets released "first". One could argue that some of the new Cubase 9.5 features have been already introduced in Nuendo 8.0 in June 2017. So, from a Cubase perspective, Nuendo got those features first. From a Nuendo perspective, Cubase gets some features earlier, some of which are more or less useful for Nuendo users. The difference however is, that nearly ALL Cubase features are ported to Nuendo, while only few Nuendo features make it into Cubase. So I can understand that the demand of Nuendo users for the Cubase features is actually higher.

Thanks,
Timo
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by DTSR » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:51 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:09 pm
DTSR wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:32 am
hint, see AR/VR support below, we'll get it as a paid for add on
This topic has per se nothing to do with AR/VR products. But yes, maybe it’s a paid option.... We are talking to a lot of industry people at the moment before releasing something. Our approach is not simply adding an Ambisonics bus and some scripting possibilities. This is not what a VR DAW should look like.
15 months ago you said the following in repsonse to a VR audio related query:
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:32 am
we are in contact with ALL the players you listed and a few more most people don't have on their radar...Integrating Ambisonics will not be the biggest deal and you can expect that this will happen in a future Nuendo version.
If implementing a bus designed (22.2 aside, in case someone offer this is a solution) for dealing with HOA isn't a big deal, why is it taking so long? Instead of developing a "VR DAW" as a separate product/add-on why not address signal flow rigidity? it's clearly bus rigidity that has led to many adopting Reaper at this point, so one would think this is something Steinberg would be eager to address? I just find it curious, it's an obvious weakness in the product, and if it's not a big deal to solve, why not solve it?

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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by TimoWildenhain » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:21 pm

DTSR wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:51 pm
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:09 pm
DTSR wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:32 am
hint, see AR/VR support below, we'll get it as a paid for add on
This topic has per se nothing to do with AR/VR products. But yes, maybe it’s a paid option.... We are talking to a lot of industry people at the moment before releasing something. Our approach is not simply adding an Ambisonics bus and some scripting possibilities. This is not what a VR DAW should look like.
15 months ago you said the following in repsonse to a VR audio related query:
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:32 am
we are in contact with ALL the players you listed and a few more most people don't have on their radar...Integrating Ambisonics will not be the biggest deal and you can expect that this will happen in a future Nuendo version.
If implementing a bus designed (22.2 aside, in case someone offer this is a solution) for dealing with HOA isn't a big deal, why is it taking so long? Instead of developing a "VR DAW" as a separate product/add-on why not address signal flow rigidity? it's clearly bus rigidity that has led to many adopting Reaper at this point, so one would think this is something Steinberg would be eager to address? I just find it curious, it's an obvious weakness in the product, and if it's not a big deal to solve, why not solve it?
Because an Ambisonics bus doesn't make a VR product. And to be accurate, Reaper has no Ambisonics bus. The bus width simply allows
for 64 channels. Yes, we could have opened the bus to 64, same as Reaper. And yes we know that Reaper gets a lot attention in the VR
market because of this. But the VR market is in its beginnings and things need to be considered long-term. Simply adding a 64 ch bus
doesn't bring the VR audio production to the next level.

Now, you picked a comment I had 15 months ago for a product concept that was in conception. During 15 months things change.
However, I've actually never said that Nuendo won't get the tools. I recently said that all options - tools to integrate into Nuendo plus
potentially a separate product - are on the table.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by DTSR » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:48 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:21 pm
Because an Ambisonics bus doesn't make a VR product.
no it doesn't, but, ambisonics has gone from a fringe spatial/immersive audio solution to center stage in less than two years, Steinberg has been slow to repsond.
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:21 pm
And to be accurate, Reaper has no Ambisonics bus. The bus width simply allows for 64 channels.
yep, which has significant implications for the use of ambisonic tool-sets
TimoWildenhain wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:21 pm
Yes, we could have opened the bus to 64, same as Reaper. And yes we know that Reaper gets a lot attention in the VR
market because of this...Simply adding a 64 ch bus doesn't bring the VR audio production to the next level.
offering users a new bus type, let's call it a '64 channel matrix bus' (IO configured as one wants up to 64 channels, in fact why stop at 64?), really isn't a big ask, it's rudimentary at this stage. Deal with the "next level" concerns as the market matures, that can be an optional 'bells and whistles' product/add-on for those who want it.
Last edited by DTSR on Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by fenderchris » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:50 pm

Is it even practical to take a project back and forth between Nuendo and Cubase?

The VCA systems are different for a start, so that probably won't work.

What else might not be compatible between the two?
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by TimoWildenhain » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:00 pm

fenderchris wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:50 pm
Is it even practical to take a project back and forth between Nuendo and Cubase?

The VCA systems are different for a start, so that probably won't work.

What else might not be compatible between the two?
This is one of the reasons why the features that have been introduced to Cubase should appear
in Nuendo. I agree that it's the preferrable scenario to have them in Nuendo way earlier.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:02 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:21 pm
DTSR wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:51 pm
If implementing a bus designed (22.2 aside, in case someone offer this is a solution) for dealing with HOA isn't a big deal, why is it taking so long? Instead of developing a "VR DAW" as a separate product/add-on why not address signal flow rigidity? it's clearly bus rigidity that has led to many adopting Reaper at this point, so one would think this is something Steinberg would be eager to address? I just find it curious, it's an obvious weakness in the product, and if it's not a big deal to solve, why not solve it?
Because an Ambisonics bus doesn't make a VR product. And to be accurate, Reaper has no Ambisonics bus. The bus width simply allows
for 64 channels. Yes, we could have opened the bus to 64, same as Reaper. And yes we know that Reaper gets a lot attention in the VR
market because of this. But the VR market is in its beginnings and things need to be considered long-term. Simply adding a 64 ch bus
doesn't bring the VR audio production to the next level.
Ok, but here's where I completely start to lose faith in your company.

You have a bunch of users turning to a different application because it allows for a 64-channel bus, making it suitable for ambisonics. Then you say it's easy enough to make that happen in Nuendo. Then you go on and say that you don't feel like doing that because it doesn't make Nuendo a "next level" VR production DAW. Well, honestly I think that's just silly.

Users here have repeatedly over the years asked for a more flexible routing system as far as channel count goes. If I remember correctly early versions were far more flexible than what we see today. And once that changed you stuck with the channels you decided were good enough for us to use. And if users said they wanted another count, or enough for Ambisonics, you just decided that we didn't need that. Apparently what we need is something else (undefined) which may or may not show up at some undefined point in the future. So, sorry, but that doesn't cut it for me.

While you sit and think about this stellar future VR integration/application, users will get used to Reaper, and its responsive flexible management/development team will put out new features. Users will get used to it so why switch?

What this tells me as a user is that your company's "visionaries" are pretty stubborn. Users want 64-channels for Ambisonics, a technology that more and more people are using and not only Reaper but the main post-production competitor is catering to? Doesn't matter. What matters is that you have some sort of planning in your mind or on some sort of paper, and it must proceed.

The smart thing to do in my opinion is for your company to be at least somewhat agile here. Just bite the bullet and include the necessary channel count. It's no big deal, even you say that. Do that so people can use Nuendo and not have to look at Reaper if that's what's happening.

Heck, I'll put it a different way: What do you have to lose?

Sometimes you guys are just incredibly stubborn. I know I'm repeating myself, but your argument above is why I don't find Steinberg inspiring any longer, or why I feel like I want to invest more money into your product. For the most part there's almost no communication, then users get fed up and the noise is too much for you to bear, and then there's a bug fix (VCA only after massive complaints) and some appeasing talk, but really it feels like the same stubborn leadership and corporate culture.
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Re: Cubase 9.5 Features in Nuendo 8 - When?

Post by Sugar » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:47 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:14 pm
The difference however is, that nearly ALL Cubase features are ported to Nuendo, while only few Nuendo features make it into Cubase.
Timo,
which Cubase features will not be ported to Nuendo?

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