Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Lbro44 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnQN3cX4Csc

I would be interested in your comments on the video and EZ Drummer 2.
Bloody hell, what this guy does not know about EZ Drummer, nobody does ! I got half way thru the video but had to take a break because the pace is very fast and there is so much to take in.

Creating and Saving 'song structures' (which is something important to me) looks like a simple Search/Drag/Drop process. Really quite amazing. In particular, I play a lot of Ballroom Music (Tango, Foxtrot, Rumba, etc) which ALL adhere to a strict 32 x Bar structure. So it would be great to have ready made 'templates' to hand.

Ta,

Paul
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

I was looking on the EZ website looking to see what exactly you got with the deal. I was thinking about what you were saying yesterday regarding the amount of GB size sample library you get with the Jamstix. I could not find a GB size mentioned in the EZ Drummer 2 specifications ?

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Just found this excellent comparison video between Superior and EZ. There is nearly 20GB in DIFFERENCE between them !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-mtIseg23c

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

Well Paul I think the demo is really poor. They have really cut it back to where it really does not work like the real program. I like you can see a real need for some other way than doing drum intros by hand. So I went ahead and forked over $99 for the slim version of JamStixs. I will have to watch some Youtube video of it and read the manual to get up to speed on it. I would not exactly call it intuitive, at least not for this dude.

You welcome on the help, glad to assist where I am able.

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

monsterjazzlicks wrote:I was looking on the EZ website looking to see what exactly you got with the deal. I was thinking about what you were saying yesterday regarding the amount of GB size sample library you get with the Jamstix. I could not find a GB size mentioned in the EZ Drummer 2 specifications ?
Yeah, normally Toontrack is right up front about how many GB of sound files you get with each program or add on pack. But I found no such data. The ONLY thing I found was under the computer requirements. There it states you need 4 GB of free hard disk space to install it. Thus the sound libraries are about 4 GB.

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Makumbaria »

I have Ezdrummer 2 installed here. Sound libraries + application files are using something like 4.10 GB
Cubase Pro 10.5.20 / Wavelab el 10.0.30 / Cubasis 2.8 / CMC-TP/CH/AI/QC/PD / Cubase IC Pro 1.2.2
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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

Yep Makumbaria,
Pretty close to what I got....

On another note, have you owned any drum VSTs before Ezdrummer?

How do you like Ezdrummer 2?

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

Well I had some time to play with Jamstix. I got it to fire Superior Drummer and have a basic understanding of how it works. My main comment right now is that Jamstix is VST PERFORMANCE hungry! It pegs my meter in Cubase that measures VST Performance pretty good in some spots on some drum grooves. This is a pretty powerful machine and has ample resources. On the other hand Superior Drummer for instance stays at about 25% max when it runs.... I even increased my ASIO buffers some and that helped but still I am somewhat disappointed. I know there is a way to turn off sounds in JS3 and they should be set that way when triggering SD 2.0. That may help maybe, will try it in the morning.

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Makumbaria »

I have Ezdrummer 2, Native instruments Abbey Road modern drummer and Addictive drums 1 & 2 (with almost all midi and extension packs)

I think that Ezdrummer 2 is even better than Ezdrummer 1. I was almost ready to upgrade to Superior drums (using Ezdrummer license) when Toontrack released the new version. No regrets so far!

Addictive drums 2 is very good too (and I am already a user for a long time) . It is good to have more than one option, and XLN Audio is a cool company (excellent products and support).
Cubase Pro 10.5.20 / Wavelab el 10.0.30 / Cubasis 2.8 / CMC-TP/CH/AI/QC/PD / Cubase IC Pro 1.2.2
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Dorico 3.1.10 / Halion 6.2.10 / Halion Sonic 3.2.10 / Padshop Pro 1.2.10 / HSO 1.0 / The Grand 3.2.0/

Ivory II Italian Grand / Ravenscroft 275 / Vienna imperial piano / Alicia Keys Piano / Addictive drums 2 & Keys / Ezdrummer 2 / Abbey Road Modern Drums / GPO 5 / VSL / Vienna Mir pro 24 /Bias amp & FX 1 & 2/ Amplitube 3 & 4 / Kuassa Creme & One / TH2 & 3 / Mercuriall Spark & Reaxis / Nugen Audio / Slate Digital / Wave Arts / Waves V9 & V10 / Softube / Toneboosters / NI / Neural DSP Darkglass ultra / PSP audioware / Markstudio 2 /

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

Makumbaria wrote:I have Ezdrummer 2, Native instruments Abbey Road modern drummer and Addictive drums 1 & 2 (with almost all midi and extension packs)

I think that Ezdrummer 2 is even better than Ezdrummer 1. I was almost ready to upgrade to Superior drums (using Ezdrummer license) when Toontrack released the new version. No regrets so far!

Addictive drums 2 is very good too (and I am already a user for a long time) . It is good to have more than one option, and XLN Audio is a cool company (excellent products and support).
Very good then, sounds like you have the bases covered for the bongo's! I wonder how long it might be until a version 3.0 comes out for Superior Drummer? I have not heard a thing on that though...

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Voodoo »

Lbro44 wrote:Well I had some time to play with Jamstix. I got it to fire Superior Drummer and have a basic understanding of how it works. My main comment right now is that Jamstix is VST PERFORMANCE hungry! It pegs my meter in Cubase that measures VST Performance pretty good in some spots on some drum grooves. This is a pretty powerful machine and has ample resources. On the other hand Superior Drummer for instance stays at about 25% max when it runs.... I even increased my ASIO buffers some and that helped but still I am somewhat disappointed. I know there is a way to turn off sounds in JS3 and they should be set that way when triggering SD 2.0. That may help maybe, will try it in the morning.

LB
There are 3 things i would do:
1) switch off "load on demand" under options
2) set "midi only" in the mixer
3) load a predefined externalVstiKit like "addictive drums->ad jamsitx". These kits are set to midi only
Peaks can happen here too, while jamstix is (re)creating parts. But never with dropouts.

further:
you can create indivdual things/mappings with the input-transformer within cubase and save these tracks (together with your drum-vsti) as a track-preset. This makes things much easier ;)


... and you are right. It has a learning curve. I mentioned that earlier. Best advice i can give you: go slow. Try basic things like powervalue, drummer exchange. Dont invest time in the dropdowns to early. They are mostly advanced, but powerful.

btw. what is the demo missing? I never tried it.

Have fun
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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

Hi Voodoo,
I will try the suggestions you make for reducing the VST load. I did some reading at the JS Forum and I am not the only one with pops and clicks along with high VST resource use. I see where different versions of JS has had a varied amount of problems with this issue.

Maybe I am too critical of the Demo and it would be of some use. Here are the limitations of it:
Demo Limitations
•random audio noise
•very limited stock kit (reduced layers, sounds and articulations)
•no XL sounds
•MIDI output and export set all notes to 'Kick'
•Some 'Save' functions are disabled

I think the better demos are the full version ones with a time bomb after 30 days. But oh well.

On another note and in response to Paul's question. Cubase (the full version) triggers and drives GA3 just fine. I just tried that and it works. So It might be worth looking into down the road if one wants to enhance GA3. But I am still really concerned about the VST performance. I see JS has a new 3.6 version beta out and maybe that has better VST resource usage.

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Lbro44 wrote:On another note and in response to Paul's question. Cubase (the full version) triggers and drives GA3 just fine. I just tried that and it works. So It might be worth looking into down the road if one wants to enhance GA3.
Hi,

I have yet to experiment more with the OUTPUT routings of GA3 in Artist 7.5, but I am sure its going to be adequate in this department (for me at least). Just need to work out if my OUT'S need to be in STEREO or MONO? And as with the demonstrations in my recent video upload, I think I am happy with what GA3 and Artist 7.5 are able to achieve in
'real time' via JBridge. As stated earlier, at present, I don't really think I can justify the £250 hike up to Cubase Full. I am really a total novice and so I would be worried that a bigger DAW might be daunting and above my intellect! :ugeek:

Even though there is about 18GB difference between Superior and EZ VSTs, I am not 100% sure as to why the sizes differ so vastly. I know that the former uses 24 bit samples against (I think) 16 bit on the latter. And there are extreme differences in the amount of mic's and their positionings in Superior. Maybe this makes it greater in size. I really liked the fact that EZ is much simpler to use and had pre-assigned FX on all the individual kits and drums etc. Mic positioning and intricate FX assignments (for drums) is not something which I really want to be getting bogged down with and so I would most likely run with the onboard Presets.

However, I am 99% going to hold out for the much awaited GA4 though I may be tempted to download a 'trial' for EZ if it exists.

Ta,

Paul

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

Oh, I made a typeo here: Cubase (the full version) triggers and drives GA3 just fine. It should read: Cubase (the full version) allows Jamstix to trigger and drive GA3 just fine.

I am pretty sure that would be true of Artist as well.

On Sample sizes, I would think Superior's 24 bit samples certainly would swell the size of them and yes, all the mic positions also has something to do with it. But I also would not be surprised to find out that Superior simply has more samples in it than does EZ2.

I think if you ever to go with the full Cubase version that you will pick it up rather quickly. You have about 80% of it now, (just a rough guess mind you). So transitioning over to it should be fairly easy for you.

LB
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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

Voodoo wrote:
Lbro44 wrote:
LB
There are 3 things i would do:
1) switch off "load on demand" under options
2) set "midi only" in the mixer
3) load a predefined externalVstiKit like "addictive drums->ad jamsitx". These kits are set to midi only
Peaks can happen here too, while jamstix is (re)creating parts. But never with dropouts.

further:
you can create indivdual things/mappings with the input-transformer within cubase and save these tracks (together with your drum-vsti) as a track-preset. This makes things much easier ;)


... and you are right. It has a learning curve. I mentioned that earlier. Best advice i can give you: go slow. Try basic things like powervalue, drummer exchange. Dont invest time in the dropdowns to early. They are mostly advanced, but powerful.

btw. what is the demo missing? I never tried it.

Have fun
It seems some of the settings you suggested do indeed help. However 1. pops up a message when changed that says you need to restart JS to enable the setting change. When I do that the switch is back on each time... strange?

Thanks for your help Voodoo,
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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Lbro44 wrote:Oh, I made a typeo here: Cubase (the full version) triggers and drives GA3 just fine. It should read: Cubase (the full version) allows Jamstix to trigger and drive GA3 just fine.
Ok, I see ! lol :D

Lbro44 wrote:But I also would not be surprised to find out that Superior simply has more samples in it than does EZ2.
Yes, I would say this is most likely the case now that I think about it.

Lbro44 wrote:I think if you ever to go with the full Cubase version that you will pick it up rather quickly. You have about 80% of it now, (just a rough guess mind you). So transitioning over to it should be fairly easy for you.
Ha ha, that's very kind of you. I only wish it were true. :?

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Voodoo »

That must be LoadOnDemand. Maybe a rights-problem?
It should have no effect, if you use a midi-only-kit or use the midi-only-switch?
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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Voodoo wrote:That must be LoadOnDemand. Maybe a rights-problem?
It should have no effect, if you use a midi-only-kit or use the midi-only-switch?
I am totally out of the conversation here on this topic (ha ha) but I am still crediting you with 'Thanks' for your contributions ! :D

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

Voodoo wrote:That must be LoadOnDemand. Maybe a rights-problem?
It should have no effect, if you use a midi-only-kit or use the midi-only-switch?
Do you use "Run as Administrator" settings on some of the files for Jamstix? Also you are right, it was the Load On Demand setting or button that seems to have a mind of it's own for staying on..? I quickly tried the settings you recommend but that switch still remains on after restarting the plugin.

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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Voodoo »

No, i am working as an administrator, but i have the uac to max level within windows.
I tested the lod yesterday and it was working (my steps: load jamstix into intstrumenttrack, switch off load, unload jamstix from track, load jamstax into track . lod was off?)
There is a jamstix.ini. maybe you can set it there? Better you ask in the jamstix-forum. Ralph is a nice guy and very helpful.
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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Voodoo »

monsterjazzlicks wrote:
Voodoo wrote:That must be LoadOnDemand. Maybe a rights-problem?
It should have no effect, if you use a midi-only-kit or use the midi-only-switch?
I am totally out of the conversation here on this topic (ha ha) but I am still crediting you with 'Thanks' for your contributions ! :D
:lol:
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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

Voodoo wrote:No, i am working as an administrator, but i have the uac to max level within windows.
I tested the lod yesterday and it was working (my steps: load jamstix into intstrumenttrack, switch off load, unload jamstix from track, load jamstax into track . lod was off?)
There is a jamstix.ini. maybe you can set it there? Better you ask in the jamstix-forum. Ralph is a nice guy and very helpful.
Well on some plugins that have associated exe files I set them up to run with administrator rights. I see one file that looks like the one to do this with. It is called js3sl64.rtxc. However since it is not an exe windows does not give me the option to run as administrator. Hummm..... I took a look for the ini file and found it. Its location is the Users My Documents area makes me start to think as you that it is permissions a issue. In addition I would say this is this very file that gets written to for that button push inside the plugin. Might have to talk to Ralph to see about this.
Thanks Voodoo!
LB
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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Voodoo »

If its a rights-problem, it should work if you run cubase as an administrtor?

in the ini-file change UseLOD=1 to UseLOD=0 should do it
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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Lbro44 »

Yep I already be running as Admin while in Cubase. Strange, when I went to look at the file the switch was already set to =0. Then I went into JamStix and the Enable Load On-Demand was off. Maybe I had to completely exit Cubase for it to take effect? Strange.

Yep, that is it as I just tested it. One has to close the Jamstix plug and then shut down Cubase to make the change stick. I have not seen that kind of action before.... at least that I can remember.

In further testing my VST performance now stays below 40%. Which is a huge improvement! Thanks Voodoo :)
EDIT - Spoke too soon as the average VST performance meter has dropped down rather nicely. But I still get some massive peaks that peg the meter. I think I will try the beta program and see if that helps.
LB
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Cubase 7.5 64 bit version, Groove 3, Broomstick Bass, Superior Drummer, Jamstix, Amplitube and Jbridge: Win 7 Ultimate. i7-4790K 4.4Ghz, MSI GTX 770 2GB 256-Bit Video, with 16 GB of ram, 3 7200 HDD drives. 3 LCD monitor setup. RME HDSP 9652, DigiMax FS, HP 60 Head Phone Amp & other goodies.
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Cubase 6.02 64 bit version, Groove 3, Broomstick Bass, Superior Drummer and Jbridge: Win 7 Ultimate, Dual boot to both 32 and 64 bit versions. HP 6530b notebook with 8 GB of ram, upgraded to 7200 HDD. Dual LCD monitor setup with add on 19" display. Edirol FA/66.

Voodoo
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Re: Suitable Drum VSTi Player (help?)

Post by Voodoo »

I didnt close cubase and the LoD was set after unloading/loading the plugin?
Sounds like something is caching your data and has a failure here? I find that really strange. :shock:
Asus x99A/USB31, I5820K, 16GB, 3*SSD, 3*SATA HD, Saffire Pro40, UAD2, div. Midigear
Win10x64 pro, Cubase 10pro, Ableton Suite 10, StudioOne V4, Reason10, div PlugIns (nur x64)

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