Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

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TimoWildenhain
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Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by TimoWildenhain » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:10 am

Hi all,

thanks very much for your replies and reports regarding the latest update. Obviously there
are problems with the 5.1.1 update with regards to the video engine. We already have set up
a special team that is working since last week to analyse why the video is not playing correctly
in some cases. Based on defective projects, which have kindly been send to us by some users,
we're now able to analyse these issues using real-world projects and are also using even more
different video cards in our testing scenarios.

I'll keep you posted. I expect that more information will be available soon.

Thanks,
Timo
Timo Wildenhain - Head of Business Unit
Professional Audio Unit
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by zvenx » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:22 pm

Thanks for the communication Timo. Maybe this is the time as I have been advocating for years, to increase the size of your beta team?
rsp
richard sven patterson
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by ltf3 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:37 am

Hi

Thank heavens! I *just* came back to Nuendo (Mac Based) after a very happy experience with Cubase 5.5 and recently Cubase 6 seems good too (all Radio work though). I installed the latest 5.1.1 with great hopes...

But I loaded up the first Movie project and Native video playback was h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e. Unusably intermittent.

The Video option to use the Apple Cinema Desktop preview doesn't work at all ! (black screen).

Thank heavens our Intensity Pro card seems to output nicely ... though not at the native frame rate size I want.

On the other hand Logic Studio 2 does the video however you tell it to (all of the above) as smooth as silk.

With the price premium of Nuendo it's really tough to see how this situation exists... no different from V4, which was why I abandoned it.

Still, acknowledgement that there's a problem is at least some progress. I look forward to a prompt fix!

Best

PS : no, it's not my Video format etc ... it's the program.

Lee
Lee

Cubase 8.5, Nuendo 10, Cubasis ( gotta luv it ), Arturia Audio Fuse, OS 10.13.6, IMac Quad Core 3.2 GHz i7, 32GB RAM, Radeon Graphics 4GB

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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by troupeaudio » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:03 pm

+1
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Rustami » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:33 pm

I understand something wrong with video engine, but also I suspect you guys are using some strange video formats. I can make Nuendo video engine stuttering also by using heavily compressed H264 etc... I re-encode such videos. That's it.
PS : no, it's not my Video format etc ... it's the program.
Really?... Could you post example video?
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Rustami » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:36 pm

zvenx wrote:Thanks for the communication Timo. Maybe this is the time as I have been advocating for years, to increase the size of your beta team?
rsp
Why do you think the size of beta team is small and increasing it solves all problems?
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by zvenx » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:44 pm

Because of this statement for example:
Obviously there are problems with the 5.1.1 update with regards to the video engine.
unless these problems were seen in the beta cycle, and ignored....
I don't think it will solve all problems, but certainly increase the likelihood of problems being found....

rsp
Last edited by zvenx on Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
richard sven patterson
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by zvenx » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:46 pm

But quite frankly for me and many others Nuendo has 'problems'.....some 'basic' problems exist in released versions, and don't' get fixed in subsequent releases etc....look at this forum and the old forums.....it is either the problems were found and ignored or not found...Being a member of several beta teams for several different companies, unless SB is completely different, this continued trend suggests to me that it may be a combination of both, quite frankly more of the former, unless SB is completely different than all the other companies I beta test for.....making a more diverse beta team will clearly help the latter.....

Clearly I am not privy to the Nuendo beta team discussions, but for example the video auto scaling that was removed....I am pretty sure other beta teams would have kicked up a stink about that being removed......maybe they did and were ignored.....maybe you need louder voices on the team..

rsp
Last edited by zvenx on Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
richard sven patterson
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Cubase 10 | MacBookPro Retina 2.8Ghz Quad Core I7 | 10.14.5 | 16GB | NI Komplete Audio 6 | UAD-2 Satellite Thunderbolt Quad |

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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Rustami » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:52 pm

So, problems could be found but not fixed for some reason? Right?... And concerning video engine, as I said, it can be related to using some strange video formats which are not used normally... Of course it can be just some specific configuration...
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Rustami » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:54 pm

Clearly I am not privy to the Nuendo beta team discussions, but for example the video auto scaling that was removed....I am pretty sure other beta teams would have kicked up a stink about that being removed......maybe they did and were ignored.....maybe you need louder voices on the team..
You really think some LOUDER VOICES can help if developers have decided to remove it because of future re-design?....
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by zvenx » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:56 pm

yes that too is possible, problems found but could not be fixed.....shouldn't those at the very least be in a read me issues file? My bigger problem with this update for instance with regard to video, is that they broke stuff that worked before, almost all the problems I have seen with video and 5.1.1 including mine, is it breaks formats and files that worked before.......and that work fine in other products.........

rsp
Last edited by zvenx on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
richard sven patterson
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by zvenx » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:00 pm

Rustami wrote:
Clearly I am not privy to the Nuendo beta team discussions, but for example the video auto scaling that was removed....I am pretty sure other beta teams would have kicked up a stink about that being removed......maybe they did and were ignored.....maybe you need louder voices on the team..
You really think some LOUDER VOICES can help if developers have decided to remove it because of future re-design?....
Yes... I really honestly do. unless SB is that arrogant a company. Like I said, I beta test for other companies and I see how developers listen to loud (not abusive, by loud I mean those who don't sit and quietly accept that status quo and decree read to them from the powers that be) voices especially if many beta testers agree with the original dissent.
rsp
Last edited by zvenx on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
richard sven patterson
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Rustami » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:01 pm

zvenx wrote:yes that too is possible, problems found but could not be fixed.....shouldn't those at the very least be in a read me issues file? My bigger problem with this update for instance and video, is that they broke stuff that worked before.....

rsp
Yes, would be nice if they put known problems into I&S document. Not related to beta-testers though.
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Rustami » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:02 pm

zvenx wrote:
Rustami wrote:
Clearly I am not privy to the Nuendo beta team discussions, but for example the video auto scaling that was removed....I am pretty sure other beta teams would have kicked up a stink about that being removed......maybe they did and were ignored.....maybe you need louder voices on the team..
You really think some LOUDER VOICES can help if developers have decided to remove it because of future re-design?....
Yes... I really honestly do. unless SB is that arrogant a company. Like I said, I beta test for other companies and I see how developers listen to loud (not abusive) loud voices especially if many beta testers agree with the original dissent.
rsp
They listen to loud voices when it's technically possible.
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by zvenx » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:04 pm

So are we therefore to assume that auto scaling will not be back unless they have to do a complete rewrite of something that will make it technically possible?

I find it hard to believe that for instance the broken cleanup which I reported since last july or the edit mp3 tag or the track preset panning if observed by the beta team and 'reminders' made are technically not possible to fix....
A beta team members gets first line access and will of course most likely ensure that their workflow problems get addressed.....
rsp
Last edited by zvenx on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
richard sven patterson
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Rustami » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:07 pm

zvenx wrote:yes that too is possible, problems found but could not be fixed.....shouldn't those at the very least be in a read me issues file? My bigger problem with this update for instance with regard to video, is that they broke stuff that worked before, almost all the problems I have seen with video and 5.1.1 including mine, is it breaks formats and files that worked before.......and that work fine in other products.........

rsp
You forgot about pros, when saying that. Is there any other product that allows smooth editing and moving video on timeline? Nuendo 4 can't do that, Nuendo 5 can. Also, Nuendo 4 couldn't show DV video in high quality mode normally. Nuendo 5 can.... I have no problems here with video, using H264, DV, Photo-JPEG (Of course SD only as my PC is quite slow).
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Rustami » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:08 pm

zvenx wrote:So are we therefore to assume that auto scaling will not be back unless they have to do a complete rewrite of something that will make it technically possible?

rsp
I guess so
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by zvenx » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:10 pm

Rustami wrote:
zvenx wrote:yes that too is possible, problems found but could not be fixed.....shouldn't those at the very least be in a read me issues file? My bigger problem with this update for instance with regard to video, is that they broke stuff that worked before, almost all the problems I have seen with video and 5.1.1 including mine, is it breaks formats and files that worked before.......and that work fine in other products.........

rsp
You forgot about pros, when saying that. Is there any other product that allows smooth editing and moving video on timeline? Nuendo 4 can't do that, Nuendo 5 can. Also, Nuendo 4 couldn't show DV video in high quality mode normally. Nuendo 5 can.... I have no problems here with video, using H264, DV, Photo-JPEG (Of course SD only as my PC is quite slow).
see my point above :-)....you got what you want.... many of us others didn't...
with 5.0 I could use h264 videos as is sent to me by my clients... by 5.1.1 I have problems with those same h264 formats and no longer can autoscale.you are happy, I am not at all.
rsp
richard sven patterson
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Rustami » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:16 pm

zvenx wrote:
Rustami wrote:
zvenx wrote:yes that too is possible, problems found but could not be fixed.....shouldn't those at the very least be in a read me issues file? My bigger problem with this update for instance with regard to video, is that they broke stuff that worked before, almost all the problems I have seen with video and 5.1.1 including mine, is it breaks formats and files that worked before.......and that work fine in other products.........

rsp
You forgot about pros, when saying that. Is there any other product that allows smooth editing and moving video on timeline? Nuendo 4 can't do that, Nuendo 5 can. Also, Nuendo 4 couldn't show DV video in high quality mode normally. Nuendo 5 can.... I have no problems here with video, using H264, DV, Photo-JPEG (Of course SD only as my PC is quite slow).
see my point above :-)....you got what you want.... many of us others didn't...
with 5.0 I could use h264 videos as is sent to me by my clients... by 5.1.1 I have problems with those same h264 formats and no longer can autoscale.you are happy, I am not at all.
rsp

I wouldn't say "many". A few users on this forum, yes. Obviously. And I am sure those issues will be addressed. Enlarging beta-team will not cover all specific cases anyway (it's not that I am against it. This is simply not root of problem).
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by zvenx » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:21 pm

One of my favourite products that I am fortunate enough to also be a beta tester.... there is no one on the team that uses Tiger still and there was a problem apparently with Tiger that clearly slipped through beta testing.....Now that company increased the beta team and included ppl who still use Tiger......

I have been there, it is very easy to get very defensive about beta testing if you are indeed a beta tester for the product.... Human nature...

How I and others I know approach it is if we see a problem reported on a forum, even a forum that is not an official forum, we bring the thread to the beta group for it to be fixed...... I hope the Nuendo team is similar.

rsp
richard sven patterson
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by zvenx » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:23 pm

Rustami wrote:
I wouldn't say "many". A few users on this forum, yes. Obviously. And I am sure those issues will be addressed. Enlarging beta-team will not cover all specific cases anyway (it's not that I am against it. This is simply not root of problem).

I hear you, but if you look at other forums as well you will realise it isn't just a few users here. But I am curious to what do you believe IS the root of the problem?
rsp
Last edited by zvenx on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
richard sven patterson
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Cubase 10 | MacBookPro Retina 2.8Ghz Quad Core I7 | 10.14.5 | 16GB | NI Komplete Audio 6 | UAD-2 Satellite Thunderbolt Quad |

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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Rustami » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:24 pm

zvenx wrote: How I and others I know approach it is if we see a problem reported on a forum, even a forum that is not an official forum, we bring the thread to the beta group for it to be fixed...... I hope the Nuendo team is similar.

rsp
Of course.
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by Fredo » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:09 pm

zvenx wrote:But I am curious to what do you believe IS the root of the problem?
rsp
The "problem" is called product management.
The product manager gets x-amount of development time, in x-amount of time, for x-amount of money.
Within these restrictions he needs to prioritize stuff, taking into account that a small bug can take more time than a big one, that there is a considerable risk factor in touching some area's (that it breaks something else), that an "action" might jeopardize future development and that some "re-designs" are already planned in the future. So anything a product manager decides is per definition the wrong decision for "someone"; just by the sheer fact that it is his job to pake decisions.

So, having to make these choices, taking into account all these parameters makes that there is no "black and white"/"fixed or not fixed", but a careful weighing of the issues and balancing the resources to get something done within a certain time, budget and priority. Which is the very opposite of a user complaining that "his most important bug" is not fixed with the highest priority.

Anyone who runs his/her own business -with success- has no other choice than agree with the above.
Anyone who presents it as being "black & white" doesn't has a clue what he/she is talking about.

And for the record, I think it is safe to say that 95% of all bugs and design issues have been found and/or reported by beta. Beta reports and provides repro's; that's their job description. What happens with the provided information is subject to a truckload of -let me call it- parameters, which are sometimes not always "in sync" with what the user wants.

Best regards
Fredo

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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:21 pm

Rustami,

You can argue this back and forth as much as you want in defense of what the status is, but to the end consumer it looks like this: Steinberg has a premium product and claims it is targeted toward people working in Audio Post production. Key features will undoubtedly then be video playback and OMF/AAF import. As a customer I understand that the initial release of a new version (i.e v5.0) will contain bugs. Manufacturing packaging and media + distribution takes time out of the actual coding so of course there will be a point where the company says "let's release as it currently is and offer an update later to fix outstanding issues". And this time Steinberg did so fairly promptly....

... except it still had OMF and video issues. And now we just got 5.1.1 and it still has those issues. And that functionality is key for those working in post.

Further more, and ironically similarly to a previous issue, the release notes document stated that an issue with OMF imports from FCP had been resolved, and Fredo now stated that a "new" issue had been "uncovered" after this older one had been taken care of. The fixed one apparently "masked" the "new" one. That begs the question of how on earth it was tested? And why the release notes document isn't more specific so that a potential customer (me for example) can know exactly what to expect.

That's a problem for some end users.

I think some of the concerns could be resolved fairly easily:

1) more frequent updates
2) more communication about when those updates can be expected to come out
3) be more proactive and communicate better what has been fixed and what has not (as the release notes doc is clearly not entirely.... illuminating)
4) give Nuendo customers 1 Cubase license so that they can run either off of one dongle (to deal with leaping frogs)

I'm still waiting for this stuff to be resolved before I delve into N5.x.... That's lost revenue....

[/rant]

All in all though Nuendo is a very good product. I also think Steinbergs approach has improved over the last year.

[/moderate rave]
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Re: Nuendo 5.1.1 - video engine

Post by zvenx » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:26 pm

Fredo let me put this to you....have you looked at external forums and seen the reaction and complaints of SB users and ex-SB users compared to other DAW users and ex other DAW users....
I think I can safely state without contradiction based on the forums that I go on, that with the exception of maybe Logic...I think Steinberg has the second most negative reputation and user impressions......it isn't a conspiracy.....to me it is because Cubendo is such a great project made unfortunately by a 'not so great' company, to put it mildly.....so there is indeed a problem, not a 'problem'.

rsp
richard sven patterson
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Cubase 10 | MacBookPro Retina 2.8Ghz Quad Core I7 | 10.14.5 | 16GB | NI Komplete Audio 6 | UAD-2 Satellite Thunderbolt Quad |

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