Cubase Artist requires the USB eLicenser

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Re: Cubase Artist requires the USB eLicenser

Post by Guest »

distante wrote:
filterfreak wrote:Then you need to be more careful , that's not steingbergs fault .My old sx3 dongle has travelled every weekend but still lives and does the job its meant too .
And how can you know that I'm not? :roll:
Well ,unless you had a defect dongle then it's user error ? or are you perfect ? ;)

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Re: Cubase Artist requires the USB eLicenser

Post by distante »

filterfreak wrote:
distante wrote:
filterfreak wrote:Then you need to be more careful , that's not steingbergs fault .My old sx3 dongle has travelled every weekend but still lives and does the job its meant too .
And how can you know that I'm not? :roll:
Well ,unless you had a defect dongle then it's user error ? or are you perfect ? ;)
Of course not :lol:

Are you? since you have that sx3 dongle :roll:
Hear and See Rock Songs maded with Steinberg's UR824 and Cubase 7: bit.ly/CorazonTRM ("Corazón") and bit.ly/AnimalTRM ("Animal")

Do you want to show your music or any audio work made with Cubase? fb.com/groups/Made.With.Cubase/

My Stuff:
UR824 and Cubase PRO 8.0.20 on Windows 8.1 64bits / 16GB RAM / Core i7 4790K / GTX970 4GB VRAM )
*Always the latest version available.
A bunch of Mics, Pres and Toys, Plugins and Heart

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Re: Cubase Artist requires the USB eLicenser

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distante wrote: Are you? since you have that sx3 dongle :roll:
far from it , im a full on rock "n" roller but I look after things that are valuable to me ;)

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Re: Cubase Artist requires the USB eLicenser

Post by Mr. Beer »

I can't believe that this debate still happens here. I been on this forum for about 10 years now and it still amazes me that some people think the dongle is going to magically go away. Well It's not. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other DAWs. It's pretty simple. ;)
My wife said I was delusional, I almost fell off my unicorn laughing.

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Re: Cubase Artist requires the USB eLicenser

Post by Guest »

Mr. Beer wrote:I can't believe that this debate still happens here. I been on this forum for about 10 years now and it still amazes me that some people think the dongle is going to magically go away. Well It's not. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other DAWs. It's pretty simple. ;)

i'll drink to that !!!!!!! :D :D

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Re: Cubase Artist requires the USB eLicenser

Post by -steve- »

Mr. Beer wrote:...it still amazes me
Et voilà!
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Re: Cubase Artist requires the USB eLicenser

Post by distante »

It just that I got 8GB USB $15$ drives that are build stronger that the elicencer thingy :?
Hear and See Rock Songs maded with Steinberg's UR824 and Cubase 7: bit.ly/CorazonTRM ("Corazón") and bit.ly/AnimalTRM ("Animal")

Do you want to show your music or any audio work made with Cubase? fb.com/groups/Made.With.Cubase/

My Stuff:
UR824 and Cubase PRO 8.0.20 on Windows 8.1 64bits / 16GB RAM / Core i7 4790K / GTX970 4GB VRAM )
*Always the latest version available.
A bunch of Mics, Pres and Toys, Plugins and Heart

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Re: Cubase Artist requires the USB eLicenser

Post by Guest »

distante wrote:It just that I got 8GB USB $15$ drives that are build stronger that the elicencer thingy :?
this is an age old topic , buy a rubber case to put it in and use a usb extension lead on your lappy so it never leaves your bag and you should never have a problem

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distante
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Re: Cubase Artist requires the USB eLicenser

Post by distante »

any rubber case recommended?
Hear and See Rock Songs maded with Steinberg's UR824 and Cubase 7: bit.ly/CorazonTRM ("Corazón") and bit.ly/AnimalTRM ("Animal")

Do you want to show your music or any audio work made with Cubase? fb.com/groups/Made.With.Cubase/

My Stuff:
UR824 and Cubase PRO 8.0.20 on Windows 8.1 64bits / 16GB RAM / Core i7 4790K / GTX970 4GB VRAM )
*Always the latest version available.
A bunch of Mics, Pres and Toys, Plugins and Heart

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Re: Seriously!?

Post by Elektrobolt »

Plasuma wrote:What benefit does the user gain from having the USB licenser?
1. A feeling of quasi-fulfillment for "investing in Steinberg's security"

Beyond that, nothing. Steinberg gains control over the licenses and who can use the software. Users lose control over their licenses, and those who are foolish don't complain about it because they don't see themselves needing that flexibility at that moment.



The comparison is entirely invalid because the key to your car is actually being held in a safety deposit box that only the car manufacturer has access to.

If you want to drive your car, you have to go to the manufacturer's safety deposit box, stand in line and verify your identity with a special passkey, and wait for an official automated response.

If no connection to the repository is available, you cannot drive your car that day.

If the repository is broken into or the branch is closed down for maintenance, you cannot drive your car until they decide they're done.

If you lose your special passkey, you no longer own your car, even if you have a backup and can verify your credentials.

In addition to those risks, you cannot sell your car or your passkey. You also cannot maintain or repair your car yourself - you have to wait for an official engineer to verify if the problem exists, and then they will take your issue into consideration as soon as they get around to fixing all the other issues that don't affect you and adding additional features you never asked for (now you have air conditioning for your trunk! isn't that exciting? too bad your windshield is still missing and now you can't start your car. That'll be $50, by the way).



If you're okay with that, and you think the whole simplified "it's a key to a car" comparison is still valid, get your brain checked.
Well, your numbered bullets kind of went out the window. I did try to make sense of it with my unchecked brain, but of course I failed. ;)

Any company with any online activation/execution scheme has control over the licenses they have sold. That's how they make sure that those who use their software has paid for a license to use it. This benefits all its users in the long run, but some of those people do not want to see it (e.g. you).

Your weak rebuke in the comparison with the car is simply ludicrous.

There is no need to have your computer connected to the Internet for the dongle to operate. Though when you buy your software it needs to be programmed with a corresponding license, sort of like a modern car keys are programmed to operate only with your car.

You can install Cubase on many computers and move the dongle to any computer. That is even more freedom than the car scenario, since you have only the one car for your key. Similarly, if you loose your car keys you pay a fee (likely in the hundreds of dollars) to have them make a new one. That is not free nor convenient. If you loose your car keys at the carnival, you may not drive home, maybe you call the spouse to fish you out, or maybe take a taxi and then return to collect the car, which brings me to a boon. The one very nice feature about the car comparison is that you generally get two keys! (Steinberg!) :)

Nobody is arguing that they especially LIKE the dongle, or that it's convenient, and so on. Personally, I am just making the case that it's reasonable for a company to issue a scheme like the eLicenser. It's not ideal (like many things involving money) but for a user of Cubase, I would rather use my USB port than to have my computer connected to the Internet. E.g. it easily beats Internet DRM, like an Amazon reading device that can recall books from your device.

Our digital capitalist world has been moving towards these "solutions" for a long time.
"Remember that we live only in the present, in this fleeting instant; all the rest of our life is either past and gone, or not yet revealed."

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Re: Seriously!?

Post by Plasuma »

Elektrobolt wrote:Well, your numbered bullets kind of went out the window. I did try to make sense of it with my unchecked brain, but of course I failed. ;)
That was the joke. There's no benefit beyond that one point, and it's not really a benefit. The beginning of the very next sentence suggests where I was going. It probably could have benefited from some ellipses to drive the point home, so I'm sorry if the lack of them was confusing.
Elektrobolt wrote:Any company with any online activation/execution scheme has control over the licenses they have sold. That's how they make sure that those who use their software has paid for a license to use it. This benefits all its users in the long run, but some of those people do not want to see it (e.g. you).
Does the NSA spying on your private life make you safer? Not that it's the same thing, but the point is ultimate control for the sake of self-preservation, and not necessarily user protection or convenience.

You could argue one way or the other, the fact is that dongles are inconvenient and doesn't directly benefit users in any way. There are many other software companies that do not employ these methods, and I chose to go with them instead of the competition because I was entering new domains I haven't yet explored. Steinberg proved to me that dongles are unforgivable restrictions, and I will not be supporting them any longer.
Elektrobolt wrote:Your weak rebuke in the comparison with the car is simply ludicrous.
Thanks for reading it. Not very many people here know how to read words, let alone comprehend them, but you've gone one step further and actually understood what was there. I commend you!
Elektrobolt wrote:There is no need to have your computer connected to the Internet for the dongle to operate. Though when you buy your software it needs to be programmed with a corresponding license, sort of like a modern car keys are programmed to operate only with your car.

You can install Cubase on many computers and move the dongle to any computer. That is even more freedom than the car scenario, since you have only the one car for your key. Similarly, if you loose your car keys you pay a fee (likely in the hundreds of dollars) to have them make a new one. That is not free nor convenient. If you loose your car keys at the carnival, you may not drive home, maybe you call the spouse to fish you out, or maybe take a taxi and then return to collect the car, which brings me to a boon. The one very nice feature about the car comparison is that you generally get two keys! (Steinberg!) :)
I have two eLicenser dongles and one license for Cubase. Where you got the second license is a mystery to me.

When you first get your new car, they give you the key right there on the lot and you can drive what you bought, they also give you spares in case one breaks. When you first buy Cubase, if the license server is down, you have to wait until it's up.

You know what is really magical about software that doesn't require this? You can use it right then and there, and you don't have to dedicate an IO slot on your machine for it. You get a serial registered to your name when you buy the program, you enter the serial, whether you're online or not, and you get to use the program. It's a key you insert once and forget about. Companies like Adobe do this, and guess what, they happen to be doing quite a bit better than Steinberg in spite of supposedly harmful rampant piracy.

Back to the car analogy, when your car breaks, you can take it into the shop - ANY shop, whether dealer-owned or otherwise - and see it fixed again in a day or two if you have the money and don't have the time to fix it yourself. If Cubase breaks, you have to wait a week for a response from tech support, at which point you'll be told that your problem either isn't important enough to look into or you'll have to wait for a patch to deploy sometime in a month or two or whenever they feel it has been tested enough. You're also not allowed to fix it yourself, so you basically have to sod off and put all your projects on hold or re-do them in different DAWs until Steinberg feels like announcing a fix.

You conveniently skimmed over that bit, which is interesting considering that's the biggest point of owning a car. You own the damn thing and can do what you want with it, and the security measures are there to benefit YOU as the OWNER, and not the company itself.
Elektrobolt wrote:Nobody is arguing that they especially LIKE the dongle, or that it's convenient, and so on. Personally, I am just making the case that it's reasonable for a company to issue a scheme like the eLicenser. It's not ideal (like many things involving money) but for a user of Cubase, I would rather use my USB port than to have my computer connected to the Internet. E.g. it easily beats Internet DRM, like an Amazon reading device that can recall books from your device.

Our digital capitalist world has been moving towards these "solutions" for a long time.
Nobody thought about it until Steam was a success: "hey, how about we offer services with our DRM, so it's not a blatant pain in the ass?" It took a company with flat management and a "customers first" approach to innovate that area of our digital lives for the better. What do you know, it actually is better, and now everyone else with some mobility is trying to do the "automatic updater / convenience hub... plus DRM" deal, and it's working.

The fact that companies like Waves and NI have already done that and Steinberg hasn't should indicate something there. I really want to leave it to you to draw conclusions from this, since I'm sick of trying to reiterate the same points that have been made time and again, but I don't have the confidence that somebody who supports a manufacturing business model for software production could possibly understand how these things work.

You're welcome to believe what you want and support who you want, but thinking and learning are exercises that I believe more people should take part. Being a fanboy and trying to justify bad practices just doesn't benefit you as a user.
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Box A: Intel 3770K, 32GB RAM, Win 7 Pro x64, Cubase 7.5.0, VEPro 5
Box B: Intel 4930K, 64GB RAM, Win 7 Pro x64, VEPro 5

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Re: Seriously!?

Post by TheNavigator »

Plasuma wrote:Being a fanboy and trying to justify bad practices just doesn't benefit you as a user.
This.

And, if you ask me, customers defending supplier practices which are actually BAD (!) for them (such as DRM, or hardcore annoyances like dongles) are somehow comparable to victims of the Stockholm Syndrome.

I can't even START to calculate how much time I have already lost in my professional life (software engineer) to licensing issues where DRM servers or Internet connections (for licensing, etc...) were down, obscure limitations in installation counts, etc... have stood in the way of my success.

Actually I WOULD use a different DAW, but:

1. Cubase is well established here
2. Cubase is the best DAW
3. I CAN live with the dongle but I would be able to use Cubase for many more things if there was no dongle
4. I hate the fact of having to become a beggar should my dongle ever break and wait for days or weeks until some customer support guy descents to consider helping me out

Still there is no alternative, which is terribad.

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Re: Seriously!?

Post by Plasuma »

TheNavigator wrote: Actually I WOULD use a different DAW, but:

1. Cubase is well established here
2. Cubase is the best DAW
3. I CAN live with the dongle but I would be able to use Cubase for many more things if there was no dongle
4. I hate the fact of having to become a beggar should my dongle ever break and wait for days or weeks until some customer support guy descents to consider helping me out

Still there is no alternative, which is terribad.
Cubase is awesome, but Steinberg doesn't care whether or not you can actually use it, so it pays to be prepared for the inevitable doomsday "dongle death". This is my rule: have a backup DAW and avoid buying important plugs that rely on dongles.

I use FL Studio as a backup, primarily because it's flexible and has absolutely no DRM of which to speak. I don't care much for the workflow paradigm, but the important part is that I can operate with it on a bare-bones system.

You might try FL Studio, Reaper, Sonar, or Digital Performer as a backup. No dongles or other hair-brained DRM schemes involved.
Workstation Specifications
Box A: Intel 3770K, 32GB RAM, Win 7 Pro x64, Cubase 7.5.0, VEPro 5
Box B: Intel 4930K, 64GB RAM, Win 7 Pro x64, VEPro 5

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