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Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:40 am
by Iftekharul Anam
When I select a clip in Nuendo, I can't even see sometimes properly whether I have selected it or not. Especially when the clip is red in the first place. I do not see a good reason for liking the philosophy of this camouflage. I think it is madness moving forward like this.

Please make it black, like Cubase.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:27 pm
by ErikG
I’ll just say it again.
NO

If you wonder why use search.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:38 pm
by Fredo
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:05 pm
by Iftekharul Anam
Wow! I am definitely missing something here! I intend to find out what that noble cause may be.

Okay. Since you knowledgeable folks are saying no, should I delete this feature request? Please advise if you will. Please don't say no this time.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:15 pm
by Centralmusic
I´m (among other great post pro features) on Nuendo - because OF THE RED OUTLINE !!!

I don't want the light/dark flickering like in cubase.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:20 pm
by Iftekharul Anam
Okay. At this point, I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing. Guys! Example question, Are you sure you are happy with selecting a red colour clip in Nuendo and how it looks after being selected?

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:27 pm
by -steve-
They are talking about the same thing. You are asking about one very specific case, where the item is the same exact color as the outline. :)

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:48 pm
by HughH
I really agree. I find it difficult to see the tiny red outline - especially when the item is red.

What should I search for?
"The Incredible Joy of Red Outlines"?
"Red or Dead"?

Please enlighten!

I want to experience the Bliss of the Red, also . . .

Hugh

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:06 pm
by Iftekharul Anam
HughH wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:48 pm
I really agree. I find it difficult to see the tiny red outline - especially when the item is red.
Hugh
Thank you for someone finally understanding. I thought I may be going crazy 😂
HughH wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:48 pm
What should I search for?
"The Incredible Joy of Red Outlines"?
"Red or Dead"?

Please enlighten!

I want to experience the Bliss of the Red, also . . .
😂😂😂

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:14 pm
by Tumppi Järnefelt
I'd say no. Clip has to be marked someway when it is selected and this is almost perfect. A little thicker red lines could make it perfect.
And yes, avoid red on clips or tracks...

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:18 pm
by McSound
+1 Thicker red to be more visible !!!

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:43 pm
by Getalife2
There are so very many colors in the rainbow.

Use any of them but red for Clips in Nuendo and the problem is easily solved.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:59 am
by Dietz
Getalife2 wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:43 pm
There are so very many colors in the rainbow.

Use any of them but red for Clips in Nuendo and the problem is easily solved.
Won't work. Singers expect their tracks to be in red (in RED!!, actually) - after all, they are the most important species on earth.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Sat May 02, 2020 4:06 am
by KolaKoffee
Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:14 pm
I'd say no. Clip has to be marked someway when it is selected and this is almost perfect. A little thicker red lines could make it perfect.
And yes, avoid red on clips or tracks...
Well if we're supposed to just work around Nuendo's flaws instead of requesting fixes, why do you need thicker lines? Just hold a magnifying glass in front of your monitor!

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Sat May 02, 2020 6:40 am
by Tumppi Järnefelt
KolaKoffee wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:06 am
Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:14 pm
I'd say no. Clip has to be marked someway when it is selected and this is almost perfect. A little thicker red lines could make it perfect.
And yes, avoid red on clips or tracks...
Well if we're supposed to just work around Nuendo's flaws instead of requesting fixes, why do you need thicker lines? Just hold a magnifying glass in front of your monitor!
I guess for compromise. No need for the attitude dude...

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:19 pm
by Iftekharul Anam
Can we at least have an Option of Cubase style selection? (Along with the Red outline Option)

Loving 10.3 but crying for the option.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:19 am
by luiza177
Iftekharul Anam wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:19 pm
Can we at least have an Option of Cubase style selection? (Along with the Red outline Option)

Loving 10.3 but crying for the option.
+1111111

The red outline is hard to see and useless on red colored clips.

I am however curious about why other users love it so much.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:10 pm
by adunion
+1

As a very recent crossgrader from Cubase (couldn't resist the 40% discount offer) I can only agree. The red outline is extremely annoying when you're used to the behaviour of Cubase all the way since version 4, or even earlier versions, where selected events get inverted instead. As I believe Steinberg wants to attract Cubase users with their current offer, it would totally make sense if they made it an option. It should be a pretty simple thing to do, shouldn't it? I mean just just add "Selection style: Inverted/Outline" to Event Display -> Audio in Preferences and there we go. Everybody will be happy. Please?

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:08 pm
by Fredo
For users who work in Post (for whom Nuendo is made for) it is impossible to work with events that change color.
We sometimes have hundred of tracks and a gazillion small events.
We use colored events to "guide" us through the process.
In my case a Yellow event means that it is unusable, a Pink event means that it needs some TLC, etc ...
So there is no way that events can/may change color when selected.

Again, when you are working on a very big session with a controller, we always use "select event under cursor".
With a gazillion tiny edits, we need to see easily and quickly which event is selected.
To move it, to snap, to process, to set locators, to fade, trim ... whatever.

I understand that people are not used to this, but I can not understand the problem.
As far as I can see, (correct me if I am wrong) the only issue is that the outline is hard to see on bright red tracks.
And even that I fail to understand, because I can not look at full/bright colors for even an hour.
My colored tracks/events are all very light, and even on a red colored event, I can clearly see the outline.

As for the option to make it a preference, that has been requested, but there is a technical problem.
Because of incompatible graphics libraries both can't be used at the same time, it's one or the other.

I'd say, look for a way to make it work for you (for example, avoid RED tracks), because the problem post users simply don't have an alternative.

Fredo

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:48 pm
by Iftekharul Anam
Fredo wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:08 pm
For users who work in Post (for whom Nuendo is made for) it is impossible to work with events that change color.
For people who use Nuendo for not only Post but also many many other things (as the Nuendo feature list significantly suggests),
Fredo wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:08 pm
As for the option to make it a preference, that has been requested, but there is a technical problem.
Because of incompatible graphics libraries both can't be used at the same time, it's one or the other.
that probably feels really unfortunate. Hopefully, we can find a solution to such a technical problem sooner than later.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:17 am
by adunion
Fredo wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:08 pm
For users who work in Post (for whom Nuendo is made for) it is impossible to work with events that change color.
We sometimes have hundred of tracks and a gazillion small events.
Hi Fredo! Thanks for replying.
I also work in "post", but besides that I compose music and do game audio. Steinberg are currently promoting Nuendo 10 quite heavily towards game audio professionals, plus Nuendo has also got every single feature of the music platform we know as Cubase. So I'm unsure what you mean by saying that Nuendo "was made for" users who work in post when it is obviously marketed towards many different kinds of users. And judging from the crossgrade prices at this time - they encourage people to jump ship.

Apart from that, there are hundreds of thousands of professional post production people who use ProTools for their large scale work. When selecting an event in ProTools, the colour of the event gets inverted (well, not exactly inverted - the waveform colour stays the same but the background gets darker) just like in Cubase and most other DAWs. I can fully understand that what you're saying is your personal preference, but other than that it doesn't fully make sense.

My problem is not the inability to colour events red in Nuendo, but rather the whole "feel" of the program when working. I guess it has to do with what you're used to in terms of visual feedback in your DAW for the tasks you perform thousands of times every day - like selecting events. The fact here is that Nuendo is surprisingly different from most other modern DAWs.
Fredo wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:08 pm
As for the option to make it a preference, that has been requested, but there is a technical problem.
Because of incompatible graphics libraries both can't be used at the same time, it's one or the other.
Interesting. Could you explain "incompatible graphics libraries" further?
To me it seems like - If they were able to put pretty much every other feature of Cubase in Nuendo, why would making this an option be such a tough one? But as always, I guess, changing seemingly simple stuff in softwares might be tougher than it seems.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:40 am
by Fredo
Look, I understand the arguments but the matter of fact is that a preference for having both is not an option from a technical point of view.
I trust the developers when they say that it can't be done. (No matter if it is a technical or financial/resources issue)

Since it can't be done technically, and since Nuendo was initially created for post users (regardless if they now want to attract new users), who "en masse" are used to working with colored events/red outline, I don't see any reason why it should be changed.

Let me summ it up:

-Inverting the color of a selected event has *exactly* the same functionality as adding a red outline. It simply makes clear which event is selected.
-Inverting the color of the selected event has no added value over a red outline. (I.e. there is nothing "more" you can do with it)
-A red outline "breaks" nothing for the users who depend on using colored events. (Except when you use bright red tracks/events - but that is easy to "solve"
-Inverting the color DOES break the workflow for those who work with colored events. (And that is NOT solvable)

It's simply a matter of making a choice; and from my point of view, weighing the pro's and con's as described above, it's an easy choice.
Bring on the arguments and advantages that inverting colors adds to your workflow, and we can talk.
Any other "argument" is purely political, and I am longtime done with political discussions.

Fredo

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:42 pm
by KolaKoffee
Fredo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:40 am
-Inverting the color of a selected event has *exactly* the same functionality as adding a red outline. It simply makes clear which event is selected.
-Inverting the color of the selected event has no added value over a red outline. (I.e. there is nothing "more" you can do with it)
-A red outline "breaks" nothing for the users who depend on using colored events. (Except when you use bright red tracks/events - but that is easy to "solve"
-Inverting the color DOES break the workflow for those who work with colored events. (And that is NOT solvable)
- Except it doesn't, which is why you see a variation of this thread pop up every few weeks.

- It has the added value that I can color my items any way I want instead of awkwardly avoiding red tones.

- Your personal opinion that we shouldn't use bright and saturated colors anyway doesn't mean anything. They're literally the factory default.

- How does it change colors or break the workflow? In Cubase your yellow event will still have a yellow waveform and outline when selected. The only difference is that the outline is just the same color as the event, instead of a fixed red, and thanks to the background getting inverted you don't have to squint your eyes to see a literal 1 pixel thick line to know you have it selected.

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:35 pm
by adunion
Fredo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:40 am
Since it can't be done technically, and since Nuendo was initially created for post users (regardless if they now want to attract new users), who "en masse" are used to working with colored events/red outline, I don't see any reason why it should be changed.
It would surely be interesting to have a dev explain why it "can't be done", given that Cubase and Nuendo share the exact same codebase and have done so for years. Tried searching the forum for any clues, but didn't find anything. I wouldn't suggest them to change it. Just to make it an option.
-Inverting the color of a selected event has *exactly* the same functionality as adding a red outline. It simply makes clear which event is selected.
True, except it doesn't make it all that clear. To someone who's used to the "inverted" approach, it's a major annoyment. Again, it's not exactly about inverting the actual colour, just swapping the colour of the waveform and the background when selected. Making it an option would therefore make sense.

To me (and presumably lots of other users as well), this:
cubase_selection.jpg
(75.68 KiB) Not downloaded yet
is simply much more clear and intuitive than this:
nuendo_selection.jpg
(90.59 KiB) Not downloaded yet
-Inverting the color of the selected event has no added value over a red outline. (I.e. there is nothing "more" you can do with it)
Again, it's a matter of feel and user experience, which in the end affects your daily workflow. Making it an option would make the most sense for users coming from Cubase or ProTools or other DAWs.
-A red outline "breaks" nothing for the users who depend on using colored events. (Except when you use bright red tracks/events - but that is easy to "solve"
True, but there are lots of other stuff that don't break stuff that they've chosen to add as options. As an example, I've noticed that the dreaded "Clicking locator range in Upper Part of the Ruler Activates Cycle" that has been an annoyment since Cubase 8.5 is now an option in Nuendo 10. It never broke anything, but many users were annoyed by it and felt that it affected their workflow.
-Inverting the color DOES break the workflow for those who work with colored events. (And that is NOT solvable)
... just like a red outline breaks the workflow in the exact same way for people who are used to the inverted approach. I, too, work with coloured events and have always done so. This is not anything unique for Nuendo users strictly working in "post" (whatever the exact definition of that is these days.)
Bring on the arguments and advantages that inverting colors adds to your workflow, and we can talk.
I hope the above arguments make some sense to you. It's not about politics, only about creating a better user experience for more users in different fields of the business.

Best,
Robert

Re: Please get rid of the Red Outline while selecting clips in Nuendo

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:24 am
by fuzzydude
adunion wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:35 pm
Fredo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:40 am
Since it can't be done technically, and since Nuendo was initially created for post users (regardless if they now want to attract new users), who "en masse" are used to working with colored events/red outline, I don't see any reason why it should be changed.
It would surely be interesting to have a dev explain why it "can't be done", given that Cubase and Nuendo share the exact same codebase and have done so for years. Tried searching the forum for any clues, but didn't find anything. I wouldn't suggest them to change it. Just to make it an option.
-Inverting the color of a selected event has *exactly* the same functionality as adding a red outline. It simply makes clear which event is selected.
True, except it doesn't make it all that clear. To someone who's used to the "inverted" approach, it's a major annoyment. Again, it's not exactly about inverting the actual colour, just swapping the colour of the waveform and the background when selected. Making it an option would therefore make sense.

To me (and presumably lots of other users as well), this:
cubase_selection.jpg

is simply much more clear and intuitive than this:
nuendo_selection.jpg
-Inverting the color of the selected event has no added value over a red outline. (I.e. there is nothing "more" you can do with it)
Again, it's a matter of feel and user experience, which in the end affects your daily workflow. Making it an option would make the most sense for users coming from Cubase or ProTools or other DAWs.
-A red outline "breaks" nothing for the users who depend on using colored events. (Except when you use bright red tracks/events - but that is easy to "solve"
True, but there are lots of other stuff that don't break stuff that they've chosen to add as options. As an example, I've noticed that the dreaded "Clicking locator range in Upper Part of the Ruler Activates Cycle" that has been an annoyment since Cubase 8.5 is now an option in Nuendo 10. It never broke anything, but many users were annoyed by it and felt that it affected their workflow.
-Inverting the color DOES break the workflow for those who work with colored events. (And that is NOT solvable)
... just like a red outline breaks the workflow in the exact same way for people who are used to the inverted approach. I, too, work with coloured events and have always done so. This is not anything unique for Nuendo users strictly working in "post" (whatever the exact definition of that is these days.)
Bring on the arguments and advantages that inverting colors adds to your workflow, and we can talk.
I hope the above arguments make some sense to you. It's not about politics, only about creating a better user experience for more users in different fields of the business.

Best,
Robert
It’s a shame if it’s definitely not possible. You’ve made a good argument here for an option to be added, or a global change to the Cubase method.