MIDI & Audio Event Automation

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MarkusLappalainen
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MIDI & Audio Event Automation

Post by MarkusLappalainen »

MIDI events have a decent automation workflow in the Piano Roll, though it would be nice if it were upgraded to bezier curves like in the usual project window. This would improve further the already great MIDI editing that we have in the Steinberg-world.

How about having the same in Audio events also? Now, in order to automate audio, it must be done in the project window or other not-so-intuitive windows like Envelope in direct offline processing.

Why not take this a bit furter. Now Track Automation and Event Automation are two separate entities. I see some detail benefit having them separate, but I would rather have the two combined into one. All automation edits that are done in an editor, are directly connected, visible and in effect in the project window and vice versa. I would love to see this simplification and streamlining happen.
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k5000
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Re: MIDI & Audio Event Automation

Post by k5000 »

Hear hear.

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mozizo
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Re: MIDI & Audio Event Automation

Post by mozizo »

+1
started to use protools ultimate few week ago,and the volume automation on clips is so much faster and intuitive than any other method in Cubendo(pan tool,envelope,cutting event to change its gain etc..)
actually earlier cubase version had volume and pan for audio events :!:
its an essential tool
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MattiasNYC
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Re: MIDI & Audio Event Automation

Post by MattiasNYC »

Just for another view on this:

I had to pick up after another engineer not long ago, and he treated clip gain as level automation. Unfortunately he did what many do which is to grab "chunks" within clips and adjusting them, which results in 90 degree angles which create clicks. Now, in Pro Tools, how am I supposed to deal with that? The regular commands that deal with actual (fader) level automation don't work the same, so I can't simply for example set a range across this vertical line and hit "x" to create a ramp that doesn't click. Instead I have to get rid of the automation node(s). Super slow.

So while I see the use of these I really do think it comes down to workflow and it's not at all guaranteed to be a good thing.

But as always of course; as long as it's an option I don't mind if it exists.
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mozizo
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Re: MIDI & Audio Event Automation

Post by mozizo »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:08 am
Just for another view on this:

I had to pick up after another engineer not long ago, and he treated clip gain as level automation. Unfortunately he did what many do which is to grab "chunks" within clips and adjusting them, which results in 90 degree angles which create clicks. Now, in Pro Tools, how am I supposed to deal with that? The regular commands that deal with actual (fader) level automation don't work the same, so I can't simply for example set a range across this vertical line and hit "x" to create a ramp that doesn't click. Instead I have to get rid of the automation node(s). Super slow.

So while I see the use of these I really do think it comes down to workflow and it's not at all guaranteed to be a good thing.

But as always of course; as long as it's an option I don't mind if it exists.
i'm not sure what you exactly mean, but i also at first in protools cut the clips and raise the gain, but then i discovered you can show the ""clip gain line"" on the clip,and you can automate it as you wish (90 or whatever angle as in track fader automation)
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MattiasNYC
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Re: MIDI & Audio Event Automation

Post by MattiasNYC »

It's just not as fast to edit a clip-gain line as it is volume automation in my experience. I don't mind being able to change clip/event gain, and I presume this still exists for version 10. I just wanted to mention that it's not as fast (in PT) to adjust it as it is 'regular' volume automation. In addition:
MarkusLappalainen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:15 pm
Now Track Automation and Event Automation are two separate entities. I see some detail benefit having them separate, but I would rather have the two combined into one. All automation edits that are done in an editor, are directly connected, visible and in effect in the project window and vice versa. I would love to see this simplification and streamlining happen.
This sounds like two different issues or "problems" combined into one solution (which won't work).

Track automation affects the fader. Inserts and sends can be pre-/post-fader.
Event gain affects the level 'read from disk'. It is pre-inserts.

Therefore those two can't and shouldn't be combined.

If it's a matter of getting access to track automation in views other than the project window then that's a different thing. I wouldn't mind being able to get an overlay over the waveform of an automation line in an editor window. That's fine by me, and a pretty reasonable request I think.

But 'combining' the two is missing the difference between them, and even if it was possible I would fear doing so would cause a lot of problems (with coding/bugs and compatibility etc).
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MarkusLappalainen
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Re: MIDI & Audio Event Automation

Post by MarkusLappalainen »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:37 pm
It's just not as fast to edit a clip-gain line as it is volume automation in my experience. I don't mind being able to change clip/event gain, and I presume this still exists for version 10. I just wanted to mention that it's not as fast (in PT) to adjust it as it is 'regular' volume automation. In addition:
MarkusLappalainen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:15 pm
Now Track Automation and Event Automation are two separate entities. I see some detail benefit having them separate, but I would rather have the two combined into one. All automation edits that are done in an editor, are directly connected, visible and in effect in the project window and vice versa. I would love to see this simplification and streamlining happen.
This sounds like two different issues or "problems" combined into one solution (which won't work).

Track automation affects the fader. Inserts and sends can be pre-/post-fader.
Event gain affects the level 'read from disk'. It is pre-inserts.

Therefore those two can't and shouldn't be combined.

If it's a matter of getting access to track automation in views other than the project window then that's a different thing. I wouldn't mind being able to get an overlay over the waveform of an automation line in an editor window. That's fine by me, and a pretty reasonable request I think.

But 'combining' the two is missing the difference between them, and even if it was possible I would fear doing so would cause a lot of problems (with coding/bugs and compatibility etc).
Thank you for your insight! Much appreciated :)

Maybe I should give a bit more context to my dilemma.

I approach this from the place of MIDI CC programming. It is possible to have MIDI CC1 for example, visible as a track automation lane, like track volume or any other parameter in plugins or virtual instruments. Now, if I have used the track automation lane for CC1, the line and it's bezier contour are visible when I edit in the Piano Roll. I can also write new automation detail in the piano roll automation lanes, but the changes don't reflect back on the track automation lane when I close the piano roll. This is the thing I wish to see rectified.

Also, I'd love to see similar action when it comes to audio events. Imagine the audio editor window having shared automation lanes with the project window. To see any automation lane in the editor window and have changes there reflect on the automation lanes in the project window.

Naturally I am no coder and am not familiar with the inner workings of Nuendo, but what I see is an issue of visibility instead of complete rewrite of new controller lanes. I am hoping for a possibility to see and have what I see, connected to what already is in place.
Have a happy day!
– Markus Lappalainen

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