0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

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01w
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0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by 01w » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:52 am

Please dear steinberg, Please implement this 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne in version cubase 10,
don’t wait till version 11.

https://youtu.be/rFyEKPYI6ao
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by -steve- » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:18 am

Have you yourself measured the difference between the programs using the gear you have on hand?

Let's be clear about this.

It Low Latency not zero latency.

It is still limited by the abilities of your audio interface.

Read this article: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... ow-latency
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01w
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by 01w » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:53 am

Obviously it’s not zero latency technically, but it’s not noticeable during performance and is extremely useful.
In cubase you can clearly hear that there’s latency in software monitoring if you select direct monitoring you will hear echo-like doubling, and when using just software monitoring it obviously hurts the performance
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by Centralmusic » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am

01w wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:53 am
Obviously it’s not zero latency technically, but it’s not noticeable during performance and is extremely useful.
In cubase you can clearly hear that there’s latency in software monitoring if you select direct monitoring you will hear echo-like doubling, and when using just software monitoring it obviously hurts the performance
Nope. Only wrong handling. ;)
You can do the same with Cubase...

please see this vid e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuOn6qEs4z4
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by GlennO » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:19 pm

01w wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:52 am
Please dear steinberg, Please implement this 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne in version cubase 10,
don’t wait till version 11.

https://youtu.be/rFyEKPYI6ao
That's no different than Cubase.
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01w
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by 01w » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:33 pm

Centralmusic wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am
01w wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:53 am
Obviously it’s not zero latency technically, but it’s not noticeable during performance and is extremely useful.
In cubase you can clearly hear that there’s latency in software monitoring if you select direct monitoring you will hear echo-like doubling, and when using just software monitoring it obviously hurts the performance
Nope. Only wrong handling. ;)
You can do the same with Cubase...

please see this vid e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuOn6qEs4z4
that works for send effects like reverb or delay.
but no for insert effects like guitar amp sims
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by 01w » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:34 pm

GlennO wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:19 pm
01w wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:52 am
Please dear steinberg, Please implement this 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne in version cubase 10,
don’t wait till version 11.

https://youtu.be/rFyEKPYI6ao
That's no different than Cubase.
very different
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by GlennO » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:57 pm

Native low latency monitoring is PreSonus' attempt to mimic features that are in Cubase. There was no attempt to add anything unique to Studio One that isn't in Cubase. Is there something specific that you're saying can't already be done in Cubase?
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01w
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by 01w » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:41 am

GlennO wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:57 pm
Native low latency monitoring is PreSonus' attempt to mimic features that are in Cubase. There was no attempt to add anything unique to Studio One that isn't in Cubase. Is there something specific that you're saying can't already be done in Cubase?
either I dont know how to enable [near] zero latency monitoring with insert effects like StudioOne and LogicX have,
or you confuse cubase's hardware monitoring and software monitoring with audible latency with a feature [near] zero monitoring
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by GlennO » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:46 am

That's a pretty basic thing that Cubase is capable of. For example, that's how you use an amp sim in Cubase. In other words, Cubase has the same low latency monitoring feature as Logic, and now Studio One has that same feature. Turn on asio guard. If you want to bypass latent plugins, use the CDC button. That's equivalent to the "Z" button in Studio One.
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by Prock » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:03 am

01w wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:52 am
Please dear steinberg, Please implement this 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne in version cubase 10,
don’t wait till version 11.

https://youtu.be/rFyEKPYI6ao
This vid is showing how you can use Studio One to control low latency monitoring using one of the stated audio interfaces from Presonus. It is possible because Studio One is tightly integrated with the controls of the audio interface through the universal control mixing software that is used with the PreSonus audio interfaces.

Cubase does have a “direct monitoring” function too but, it can only be enabled when connected to an audio interface that can be controlled by Cubase (a Steinberg UR interface maybe)? I don’t have a UR interface so I’m not sure how that function works but I would think it works similar.

Regards. 8-)
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by GlennO » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:23 am

Prock wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:03 am
This vid is showing how you can use Studio One to control low latency monitoring using one of the stated audio interfaces from Presonus. It is possible because Studio One is tightly integrated with the controls of the audio interface through the universal control mixing software that is used with the PreSonus audio interfaces.
I think you might be talking about a different video? There are two different kinds of low latency monitoring in Studio One. You're describing hardware low latency monitoring, but this video is about the other kind of low latency monitoring: native low latency monitoring. It's effectively the same thing as Asio Guard combined with CDC.
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01w
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by 01w » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:17 am

Prock wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:03 am
01w wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:52 am
Please dear steinberg, Please implement this 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne in version cubase 10,
don’t wait till version 11.

https://youtu.be/rFyEKPYI6ao
This vid is showing how you can use Studio One to control low latency monitoring using one of the stated audio interfaces from Presonus. It is possible because Studio One is tightly integrated with the controls of the audio interface through the universal control mixing software that is used with the PreSonus audio interfaces.

Cubase does have a “direct monitoring” function too but, it can only be enabled when connected to an audio interface that can be controlled by Cubase (a Steinberg UR interface maybe)? I don’t have a UR interface so I’m not sure how that function works but I would think it works similar.

Regards. 8-)
Oh I used to have UR44, it was very inconvenient to use with cubase because with cubase it didn’t allow to use the hardware dsp mixer, so everything I was tracking was way to quiet to hear for the performers, so I had to create 2 channels and boost the volume all the way up on the “monitoring” one, for each input in order to have audible input monitoring.

I guess this zero latency monitoring thing is not that great after all if the one in studioOne and Logic works the same as steinberg UR audio interface monitoring
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by 01w » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:20 am

GlennO wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:23 am
Prock wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:03 am
This vid is showing how you can use Studio One to control low latency monitoring using one of the stated audio interfaces from Presonus. It is possible because Studio One is tightly integrated with the controls of the audio interface through the universal control mixing software that is used with the PreSonus audio interfaces.
I think you might be talking about a different video? There are two different kinds of low latency monitoring in Studio One. You're describing hardware low latency monitoring, but this video is about the other kind of low latency monitoring: native low latency monitoring. It's effectively the same thing as Asio Guard combined with CDC.
Yea I’m talking about native low latency monitoring
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by GlennO » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:41 am

01w wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:20 am
Yea I’m talking about native low latency monitoring
In that case, Cubase already has it, and it has nothing to do with audio interfaces.
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01w
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by 01w » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:43 am

GlennO wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:41 am
01w wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:20 am
Yea I’m talking about native low latency monitoring
In that case, Cubase already has it, and it has nothing to do with audio interfaces.
Thank you for the help!
I’ll try software monitoring with CDC.
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by Prock » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:44 pm

GlennO wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:23 am
Prock wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:03 am
This vid is showing how you can use Studio One to control low latency monitoring using one of the stated audio interfaces from Presonus. It is possible because Studio One is tightly integrated with the controls of the audio interface through the universal control mixing software that is used with the PreSonus audio interfaces.
I think you might be talking about a different video? There are two different kinds of low latency monitoring in Studio One. You're describing hardware low latency monitoring, but this video is about the other kind of low latency monitoring: native low latency monitoring. It's effectively the same thing as Asio Guard combined with CDC.
I do stand corrected. I definitely thought the video dealt with hardware low latency monitoring. :oops:

Regards 8-)
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by Renesas » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:54 pm

+100000000

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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by -steve- » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:19 am

+infinity
This is the most popular feature request of all time in the category: "Features that Cubase Has" ;) :P
GlennO wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:46 am
That's a pretty basic thing that Cubase is capable of. For example, that's how you use an amp sim in Cubase. In other words, Cubase has the same low latency monitoring feature as Logic, and now Studio One has that same feature. Turn on asio guard. If you want to bypass latent plugins, use the CDC button. That's equivalent to the "Z" button in Studio One.
Glenn tells it like it is. Thanks Glenn.
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by Renesas » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:10 pm

Would be nice to have this monitoring feature without the need to use constrain delay compensation

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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by Accel0001 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:07 am

See also following links for details. They are basically same function.

https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... ion_c.html
Activating Constrain Delay Compensation turns off VST plug-ins that are activated for VST instrument channels, audio track channels that are record-enabled, group channels, and output channels. VST plug-ins that are activated for FX channels are disregarded.
https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... vst_r.html
Delay Compensation Threshold (for Recording)
Only plug-ins with a delay higher than this threshold setting are affected by the Constrain Delay Compensation function. By default, this is set to 0.0 ms, which means that all plug-ins will be affected. If you feel that a little latency is acceptable, you can raise this threshold value.
Studio One's threshold value is 3ms.
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/a ... toring-FAQ
Only plug-ins that add less than 3ms latency to the audio path can be used in the software low-latency monitoring signal chain. Plug-ins with higher latency are no longer audible on the monitoring path.
Logic Pro X
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207527
Low Latency Mode bypasses plug-ins as needed, so the amount of latency doesn't exceed the Limit setting in the Plug-in Latency section of the General Audio preferences of Logic Pro.
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by Joe90 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:51 pm

+1

For those saying Cubase already has this feature - please tell me how to monitor a VST instrument at low latency while the project remains at a high buffer size? In Studio One I can run a full project at a low buffer size and it all runs as if the buffer is set at maximum (i.e lighter on the CPU), but if I record arm a VSTi track, or an audio track with plug-ins, it will run just the armed track at the lower set buffer size, so I can always arm and record at low latency. In Studio One the monitored track will automatically bypass latency inducing plugs in it's chain when this setting is switched on. Haven't used Logic much but it seems from what I've read that it's using the same 'dual buffer' system.

If I reduce the buffer size to the same low setting in Cubase then the whole project shows it, obviously the Asio guard settings help things, but there's no way I can run large projects at the very low buffer sizes, full stop. So if I need to record a new part in a large project here's what I have to do -

device setup - change soundcard buffer size from high to low,
back into the project window - hit the 'constrain delay compensation' button to turn off all the latency inducing plugs in the whole project (entire mix/project sounds changes while I'm trying to record my new part),
get the part recorded, then switch everything back.

The video that someone posted just shows direct monitoring through the soundcard, with an additional FX send through Cubase, which is a helpful tip and something I do too, but that only works because it doesn't matter if a reverb send has a bit of latency on it as long as the dry signal is direct. This would not work if you needed to hear the proper effected audio with all inserts.

Steve - you are a stalwart on this forum and you seem especially confident that Cubase already has this feature, so I'm hoping you're going to tell me I'm missing something and I'm wrong.
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by GlennO » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:36 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:51 pm
For those saying Cubase already has this feature - please tell me how to monitor a VST instrument at low latency while the project remains at a high buffer size?
That's asio guard. The feature you're asking for already exists in Cubase :). I will say this though: asio guard is poorly documented. PreSonus does a good job of advertising low latency monitoring. By comparison, it seems like Steinberg wants asio guard to be a mystery.
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by Joe90 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:42 pm

How is it the same thing if it doesn't provide the same function? Other DAW's use the 'dual buffer' system to allow a different buffer size for monitoring than for the overall project... I can essentially set the 'Project' buffer size, and the 'monitoring' buffer size. These are two separate options, so I can monitor at very low latency whilst the project is running at a large buffer size.

If Asio Guard provided this same function, then I should be able to go from a large buffer size to a very low one, and as long as Asio Guard is on and set to maximum I should see no (or very little) difference in performance - this is not the case, not even close. Yes it helps a lot (in most usage scenarios I've tried), but it does NOT provide the same function. I understand what it's doing, I know it is essentially a dual buffer buffer solution, but it's not nearly as well implemented. If it doesn't allow you to monitor at low buffer sizes with low latency, whilst still getting the advantages of running at a large buffer size, then what exactly is it's purpose?

I'd like to point you back to my initial question regarding monitoring VSTi's, because if it is truly the same function as you say, then that should be easily answerable...
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Re: 0 latency monitoring like Logic and StudioOne

Post by GlennO » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:55 pm

Cubase already has the feature you are asking for. This is the same system employed in other DAWs. There is no magical fairy dust that some other DAW has that nobody else is aware of. Whether asio guard and CDC provides sufficient performance to make you happy depends on your expectations, what is in your project, and how your tracks are routed.
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