Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

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Bob Miller
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Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by Bob Miller » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:35 pm

Request: Keep all tracks in folder in sync while doing edits on lanes with just one track's lanes exposed

This is a thing that is slowing me down very much. I often have multiple takes of multi track recordings that I want to keep in sync (drums or multi mic bass or guitar takes).
So I have multiple takes on lanes on multiple tracks (different mics) in a folder with group editing enabled.

When I start comping I first have to unfold the lanes on all tracks in the folder. If I do not do that group editing fails.

I would like group editing to work also when I just unfold one track and work on its lanes (and cubase performs exact the same edits on the lanes on the other tracks in the folder.

It would be a huge time saver! Also it would be a lot cleaner on the screen!



See also my other request on editing on group editing: to automatically turn of "snap to zero crossing" when editing tracks subjected to group editing.
viewtopic.php?f=285&t=154763
If both changes would be made editing such track would be so much easier!
Last edited by Bob Miller on Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by mart » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:04 pm

+1. Folder sync should just work like this anyway
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by cinematree » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:24 am

+1 Yes please
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by Nemeton » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:52 pm

+1
once you meet them, you can´t eat them

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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by marQs » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:34 pm

?!?
Here it works the way you suggest it should! One track with an open lane is enough.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by Bob Miller » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:34 pm

Hi maQs,
Are you sure it consistently works ok? I have had occasions that it worked ok here for me as well. But on complex edits with lots of lanes it sooner or later fails. Its such a bummer to find out after doing lost of edits that it has gone wrong and you have to undo and start all over again. Alternative is to try to do the same edits on the other tracks but the you surely will loose sync between the tracks.

For me it is really important and a huge time saver if lane editing would be rock solid and super reliable!
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by In_Stereo » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:09 pm

+1 Unreliable, needs to be rock solid, extremely important function.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by marQs » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:57 pm

Bob Miller wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:34 pm
...Hi maQs,
Are you sure it consistently works ok?...
I didn't have a lot of multitrack group edits recently but it has worked for me in Cubase 10 before (as well as in previous versions).

Do your troubles maybe result from having 'snap to zero' enabled? This should be off for group editing. Cubase also moans with a yellow message that group processing could fail because of events that do not have the same length. :?: Indeed group editing ends up in a mess then.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by Tommy80 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:09 pm

+1 essential implementation of group editing
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by marQs » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:55 am

Freshly tested it, it works!
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by mart » Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:38 pm

marQs wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:55 am
Freshly tested it, it works!
Never ever for me from Cubase 7, 8, 9 or 10. I can get it to break every time quite quickly. I have some videos to show it in action. It appears that one track's front to back order gets messed up. A cut then gets made and from then tracks are out of sync. I record and edit and record Multitrack audio every day (live drums, live multimic bass, live multimic strings etc etc). Its incredibly annoying.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by marQs » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:46 am

mart wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:38 pm
Never ever for me from Cubase 7, 8, 9 or 10. I can get it to break every time quite quickly...
As stated before, I've done a lot of group editing jobs on drums. It's working here and did through all versions since group editing was introduced. Tried to record a 'screen proof' but sadly my screen recorder failed.

The scenario is:
- multiple takes on lanes
- group/folder editing needs to be on (of course)
- 'snap to zero' needs to be off!
- open a single lane of any track
- using the comp tool to cut (hold alt), not the scissors!
- clicking any event with the comp tool brings it to front, along with the associated events on all other tracks of the group

Two things can counteract:

1) The 'snap to zero' function - it will cause events to be cut at zero crossing & result in minimal difference of event length throughout all tracks that just get visible on zooming in - this breaks the group as the grouping just treats events as grouped that have the exact the same length. Therefore 'snap to zero' must be off when cutting. To check if all events have the same length, toggle group editing on the folder track off/on. If there are different length, Cubase will moan with the yellow message box saying "processing could fail".

2) Cutting with the 'normal' scissors tool - it will cut just the event you click onto but will not cut through all tracks of the group. Comp tool + Alt (turning comp tool into scissors) is what you have to use to cut through all tracks. Cutting with 'just scissors' will also result in a mess of events of different length and break the group.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by Bob Miller » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:22 am

Hi MarQs,
Yes you are right that "snap to zero crossing" should be of. I try to think of it but sometimes just forget it! It is very easy to mess up the tracks that way and loose hours of work. Hence my feature request: viewtopic.php?f=285&t=154763

In my opinion cutting a event with the normal scissor should work also. In fact, in my opinion, any edit to the events with group editing enabled should be applied to the other tracks as well. In my experience this works as long as you unfold the lanes of all tracks in the group, which is taking lost of time, workspace and energy!

The only way for a rock solid group editing function is in my opinion that all edits, no matter what tool is used, no matter the lane is closed or unfold are always applied to all tracks in the group. Snap to zero crossing should be neglected for tracks with group editing enabled.

Probably you are right that in theory group editing works (if you work within the very strict conditions to make this function work) In practice it becomes almost useless and you have to constantly check whether the group editing works as expected.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by cinematree » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:03 am

+1
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by mart » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:15 pm

Bob Miller wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:22 am
Hi MarQs,
Yes you are right that "snap to zero crossing" should be of. I try to think of it but sometimes just forget it! It is very easy to mess up the tracks that way and loose hours of work. Hence my feature request: viewtopic.php?f=285&t=154763

In my opinion cutting a event with the normal scissor should work also. In fact, in my opinion, any edit to the events with group editing enabled should be applied to the other tracks as well. In my experience this works as long as you unfold the lanes of all tracks in the group, which is taking lost of time, workspace and energy!

The only way for a rock solid group editing function is in my opinion that all edits, no matter what tool is used, no matter the lane is closed or unfold are always applied to all tracks in the group. Snap to zero crossing should be neglected for tracks with group editing enabled.

Probably you are right that in theory group editing works (if you work within the very strict conditions to make this function work) In practice it becomes almost useless and you have to constantly check whether the group editing works as expected.
Scissor cuts, beam selections and delete, select and move with arrow tool. ALL of these functions and edits should remain in sync when folder sync is enabled. There should be NO way to BREAK sync within a folder when folder sync is enabled. The comp tool is inadequate and an unnecessary tool in my opinion. All of its functions can be more easily carried out with normal select, scissor cut, mute and glue operations.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by mart » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:15 pm

Bob Miller wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:22 am
Hi MarQs,
Yes you are right that "snap to zero crossing" should be of. I try to think of it but sometimes just forget it! It is very easy to mess up the tracks that way and loose hours of work. Hence my feature request: viewtopic.php?f=285&t=154763

In my opinion cutting a event with the normal scissor should work also. In fact, in my opinion, any edit to the events with group editing enabled should be applied to the other tracks as well. In my experience this works as long as you unfold the lanes of all tracks in the group, which is taking lost of time, workspace and energy!

The only way for a rock solid group editing function is in my opinion that all edits, no matter what tool is used, no matter the lane is closed or unfold are always applied to all tracks in the group. Snap to zero crossing should be neglected for tracks with group editing enabled.

Probably you are right that in theory group editing works (if you work within the very strict conditions to make this function work) In practice it becomes almost useless and you have to constantly check whether the group editing works as expected.
Scissor cuts, beam selections and delete, select and move with arrow tool. ALL of these functions and edits should remain in sync when folder sync is enabled. There should be NO way to BREAK sync within a folder when folder sync is enabled using any editing tool from the menu. The comp tool is inadequate and an unnecessary tool in my opinion. All of its functions can be more easily carried out with normal select, scissor cut, mute and glue operations.
Windows 10 Build 1903 , Gigabyte x58 Soc FORCE, 16gb Ddr4 RAM, Intel 5930x, Cubase 9.5.5 Cubase 10.0.30, Dorico 2.2 1 OCTO & 1 Quad UAD, Protools 12.7, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5 with 32gb Slave PC.

mart
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by mart » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:03 pm

Is anyone taking notice of this longstanding issue Steinberg? Haunts me every single day and every project
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by brycem » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:52 am

mart wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:15 pm
There should be NO way to BREAK sync within a folder when folder sync is enabled using any editing tool from the menu.
Absolutely! This has been an issue for years.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by brycem » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:14 am

marQs wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:46 am

The scenario is:
- multiple takes on lanes
- group/folder editing needs to be on (of course)
- 'snap to zero' needs to be off!
- open a single lane of any track
- using the comp tool to cut (hold alt), not the scissors!
- clicking any event with the comp tool brings it to front, along with the associated events on all other tracks of the group
That's about the only scenario in which group editing works properly when some lanes are collapsed (alt cut with comp tool). Swiping with comp tool fails. See screengrabs:

In this image, I have 4 tracks in a folder with group editing enabled. One track has lanes expanded.

Image

I swipe with the comp tool to select a part on the second lane. Inexplicably, no cuts are made to the events on the other tracks with lanes collapsed.

Image

I expand all lanes, toggle group editing to get the dreaded "tracks in the folder are not completely in sync" popup.

Image


Slip editing with the comp tool gets messed up too if some lanes are collapsed (holding alt+ctrl while dragging horizontally), although this has the potential to go undetected for longer and really screw up sync, as cubase won't complain when one toggles group editing.
Last edited by brycem on Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by brycem » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:21 am

This is not really a feature request - it's an "issue" (euphemism for bug) which has not been fixed for years.
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Re: Edit Lanes in on multiple tracks in folder with group editing enabled

Post by mart » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:20 pm

Can we have this moved to the ISSUES forum please moderators?
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