Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

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Stephen57
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Stephen57 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:57 am

+2

I had a drop out when toggling the Listen Bus on a single track in a relatively basic project. That never happened in any previous Cubase Pro version I've used. :-(

Audio drops out. In addition, MIDI clock glitches thus any instruments playing parts locked to MIDI clock lose the beat/tempo.

The drop out issues have gotten worse from Pro 8 to Pro 10.
-------------------------------------------------------
DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by PleaseDontBanMe » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:08 am

I wonder if there is a difference in plugin load in time between other DAWS and Cubase? Maybe the drop out allows the plugin to load quicker?

But yea, +1,

I'll send them a crate of beer if they can make it so recording doesn't stop either.

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by gabermusic » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:39 am

+1

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by In_Stereo » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:40 pm

PleaseDontBanMe wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:08 am
I wonder if there is a difference in plugin load in time between other DAWS and Cubase? Maybe the drop out allows the plugin to load quicker?
There isn't, no. The same VST plugins load in just as fast or even a touch faster in Ableton, Studio One, and Reaper here.
Cubase 9.5, Trashcan Mac 6-core 3.7ghz, High Sierra 10.13.4 OS, AMD FirePro D300 Dual, 64 gig RAM, plugins galore, some hardware, a bunch of real instruments and synths, Apollo 8 TB, etc., etc., and two cats

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by inadream » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:20 am

+1 - very annoying when "in the mode" and have an element I want to introduce, to have the sound drop out and interrupt my flow.
Not intuitive or well implemented. Various other DAW engines don't drop out. You're behind the times on this Steinberg. It's time to fix it.

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Evertone » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:45 am

+1
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by IadAslan » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:20 pm

Coming from Ableton I was shocked about this behavior. In Ableton I could record vocals while simultaneously previewing samples in the browser in real time (triggering them like an instrument, which is also not possible in Cubase), then adding them to a new track in the project & adding a chain of plugins all without the vocalist even noticing anything at all. Logic Pro, S1 and FL Studio are pretty much the same and now that even the most cumbersome and un-flexible piece of software (Pro Tools) joined in its clear that Steinberg need to get this problem eliminated.

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Stephen57 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:04 pm

I posted about this in the "Issues" forum. *crickets*
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DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Stephen57 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:30 pm

+1

Getting audio drop-outs, "zit" sound that sounds like a short circuit at times when a track is just selected during playback. Clocks lose synch with almost any or every move.

Here are where I'm getting audio drop-out, glitches and clock drop-out problems (system, drivers and hardware working normally):

During Playback:
Solo/Unsolo Track or Tracks (drop out, timing glitch)
Listen Bus enable/disable for Track or Tracks (drop out, timing glitch)
Mute/Unmute Track or Tracks (drop out, timing glitch)
Move Fader on track during playback (drop out, timing glitch)
Enable/Disable channel strip or other plug-ins (drop out, timing glitch) (impossible to A/B Eq band in/out for example)
Select Track during playback (drop out, timing glitch)

Projects have to be started several times before they playback. It seems the VSTs are not loading correctly. It seems each track has to be, more or less, individually initialized, if you will, before it will play. There's often a "zit" sound first and then the instrument's patch plays.

Some of these problems are intermittent but the basic repro is: 1) create or load project, 2) add tracks or play existing, 3) observe drop out/timing glitchs in areas mentioned above.

Cubase always struggled to load plug-ins and instruments during playback. I adopted the workflow of not adding such during playback. However, now, even after loading, the above drop-out and timing glitchs are much worse than ever before. (I started with Pro 8 and have move up with each increment to Pro 10).

As it is now Cubase Pro 10 is not a viable platform for Recording, Producing, Mixing or Playing back music.

RED ALERT.

In the Tape Days, if the machine broke down you rented a new machine (or whatever) while the one was being repaired. What are we supposed to do now?

I hate having to post that this is the situation, but it is. :-(
-------------------------------------------------------
DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
Preferences: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by 01w » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:53 am

+1
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by CoinOP » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:15 am

=1

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by 44pujol44 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:40 pm

+1
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Stephen57 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:03 pm

This is not a "feature request" this is a bug report for the existing version.
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DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
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Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
Preferences: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Quinn3k3 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:58 pm

Hi Stephen,

Your specific case may have gotten worse over the last several versions, but, to the best of my knowledge, Cubase has never had a gap-less playback engine. So, in that respect it is a feature request.

I can't say that I have seen this issue get noticeably worse since v.8, but I can definitely say that I notice the issue a lot more now. Especially after using other DAWs that don't struggle with this issue. It is something that makes Cubase seem extremely dated when comparing to the competition.

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Stephen57 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:11 pm

Quinn3k3 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:58 pm
Hi Stephen,

Your specific case may have gotten worse over the last several versions, but, to the best of my knowledge, Cubase has never had a gap-less playback engine. So, in that respect it is a feature request.

I can't say that I have seen this issue get noticeably worse since v.8, but I can definitely say that I notice the issue a lot more now. Especially after using other DAWs that don't struggle with this issue. It is something that makes Cubase seem extremely dated when comparing to the competition.
Maybe I need to think about a full re-installation. Re-setting Preferences didn't do anything to correct this. I get drop-outs and glitches with nearly every move -- see my bug report in "issues" on this. None of my previous versions were this bad. Something has gone horridly wrong with the audio engine or in some other part of the code. Cubase was never perfect, but it wasn't unusable. It is now.
-------------------------------------------------------
DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
Preferences: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by currentsound » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:40 am

I agree.

I think this was suggested a few years ago. Not sure if it was on this forum or another one. I remember someone speculating that the reason this happens is due to how Cubase does it's plugin delay compensation thing automatically when you insert a plugin. I think the other DAWs like Ableton might do it after you hit the stop button and in Pro Tools it never had automatic plugin delay compensation but it might have it now. This made sense when I read it at the time but I have no idea whether it is true or not.

If this is the reason, a simple menu option to allow the user whether or not this should occur instantly or after the stop button is engaged would be a good option.

If you're doing mastering and using high latency linear phase EQs, you'd want it to enable plugin delay compensation instantly. Probably as well if you're mixing live drums and stereo paired mics if you're not soloing them. If you're doing EDM, hip-hop and modern genres, it might not matter so much and you might be happier with the plugin delay compensation kicking in once you hit the stop button. This is of course assuming this is the reason.

I would suggest to the OP to rename the topic to 'continuous playing audio engine' so that it's more likely to get noticed.

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Renesas » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:01 pm

Huge +1

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by romil » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:07 am

+1

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Sonik » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:40 pm

+1

Using Studio One 4.5 and loving the 'no audio cuts'
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by MGil » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:34 pm

+1
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Re: Audio engine optimization: Never cutting out audio

Post by MGil » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:02 am

sonic74 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:08 am
Quinn3k3 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:37 am
My fear is that the code would have to be totally re-worked to get rid of this annoyance. Otherwise, you would think it would have been addressed by now.
I don't think the whole code must change, it is the audio engine. I think when there is a change in routing etc, the audio seems to reset. I believe this is what's happening.
I think it's neither too easy nor too complicated. I think the audio engine needs to wait for the next buffer cycle to apply the changes, not force the change in the middle of a cycle. Since we currently work with very small buffer sizes, the wait time to apply the modifications would be milliseconds.
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Musicmould » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:51 am

+1
It's the main making me think about going back to Pro Tools.
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by mart » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:13 pm

sonic74 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:56 am
The worst thing with Cubase is audio cut outs during :

creating tracks
copying tracks
changing track outputs etc...
soloing/unsoloing (Edit: sometimes)
loading VST/VSTi,
moving/copying inserts,

Maybe there is more. But this shouldn't be. Some DAWs don't have such cut outs, so I have been told, pls tell me if I am wrong.
I would imagine some of the dropouts is to do with plugin latency and getting that plugin into the signal path. It may not be possible
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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by Quinn3k3 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:46 pm

Hi all,

To those that think that this is not possible, it is definitely possible because most other modern DAWs do not have this issue. Yes, in some cases, depending on the VST/VSTi that is being loaded there may be a slight delay/mute in playback, but not anything close to the glitchy playback that most users experience in Cubase.

If you compare Cubase and Studio One on the exact same machine, Studio One's playback is by far much more stable. Many long time Cubase users (myself included) have just become so accustomed to this behavior that we think that this is normal, but when using another DAW it becomes glaringly obvious that it is not.

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Re: Proper audio engine: End of audio cut outs

Post by mozizo » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:19 am

steinberg/yamaha are late on this..
i remember all other major keyboard makers(roland,korg etc) had for years changing sounds in their workstation keyboards with no cutting the previous sound abruptly.
finally yamaha had came with this with the new montage series.(better late than never ! )
hopefully steinberg are working on it also for next cubase update.
maybe it's a lot of work to implement,but its a must to progress forward and to be up with the other DAWs in this regard
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