Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

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tepa
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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by tepa » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:24 pm

cubic13 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:27 am
................

So, I suggest to implement, at least, volume and pan controls exactly as they appear in their respective automation track, with the same behavior (which is very efficient, IMO). It would look as something like this, when the pan control is set as Stereo combined panner :

Image

... both volume and pan controls being available in the Track control settings, of course.
Sure it's a lot less clicks for important controls, that are so often needed to be adjusted.
+1
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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by Tj99 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:55 pm

In_Stereo wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:20 am
I'm going to post again because today I worked on Pro Tools all day for a vocal session. We need lots of support for this because it will make people's lives much easier if they want to move faster and more efficiently. Having everything available in the track header is vastly superior to only having the Inspector in the following ways:

> Instant control (no mod key necessary, no hold-and-wait necessary) of volume and pan without even needing to first select the track then the inspector, or go to the mixer. It's impossible to argue how much faster and more efficient it is than Cubase in this way.

> Freely moving, adding, copying inserts from one track to another without having to go to the mixer. Since you can see the inserts and sends in the track headers (if you want them there), you can see exactly what you're moving and where you're moving it to. The way it's arranged in Pro Tools doesn't take up too much real estate. Again, very noticeably and inarguably faster than Cubase.

> Instant routing of input and output on each track because they're also right on the track headers if you want them there.

Basically, anything that Cubase requires you to first click/select the track then move over to the inspector then adjust (and even click again if you're on the wrong Inspector page) is instantly done on Pro Tools, as well as copying/moving/adding inserts and sends. And all if it is customizable so you can see these things or not see them as you wish. Once you use Pro Tools (and other DAWs that are set up like this) in a session, you will be frustrated going back to Cubase if you like to move fast and efficiently in the specific ways I'm talking about here. The Inspector should still be kept, of course, because it provides some additional things as well.
Even though I never used protools, but after using Cubase for years now I know this would fasten up our workflows so much. It is kinda interesting, that this one is not a DAW standard already.
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J Buckingham
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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by J Buckingham » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:01 am

It's not standard because I think it's got something to do with track heights. If your going to hit a key command to zoom in on a track, you may as well open the channel editor or mixer. I know that I personally would not want to work with large track heights. It would create navigating issues. I like being able to see most of the project in project view. The time saved by not needing the mixer would be lost navigating the project. On my 32 inch monitor I can see 10 tracks @ 4 rows high, which is bare minimum for doing the copy inserts thing. In the mixer I can see 31 tracks. I really don't see the issue with one key stroke to open the mixer or channel settings. If it's that big an issue maybe get another monitor. Boom! Done. :idea:
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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by jordikt » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:05 am

Here is an idea for ONLY 1 knob inside the track headers for controlling Volume & Pan:

viewtopic.php?f=285&t=171285&p=914507#p914507

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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by jordikt » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:07 am

Here an idea for insert slots on track headers:

viewtopic.php?f=285&t=171286&p=914508#p914508

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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by jordikt » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:08 am

Another idea for track headers:

viewtopic.php?f=285&t=171414&p=915188#p915188

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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by jordikt » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:10 am

Idea for fast switching different views of track headers:

viewtopic.php?f=285&t=171416&p=915195#p915195

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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by Tj99 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:48 pm

J Buckingham wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:01 am
It's not standard because I think it's got something to do with track heights. If your going to hit a key command to zoom in on a track, you may as well open the channel editor or mixer. I know that I personally would not want to work with large track heights. It would create navigating issues. I like being able to see most of the project in project view. The time saved by not needing the mixer would be lost navigating the project. On my 32 inch monitor I can see 10 tracks @ 4 rows high, which is bare minimum for doing the copy inserts thing. In the mixer I can see 31 tracks. I really don't see the issue with one key stroke to open the mixer or channel settings. If it's that big an issue maybe get another monitor. Boom! Done. :idea:
I tell you what the issues are:
- Its just not intuitive having 2 completely different looking and working windows
- You can not move around freely like in the project view, like using shift+scroll, you can only scroll with your mouse over the tiny scroll bar at the bottom, or have to use the arrow keys (good luck when having 100+ tracks). That alone is already the biggest time killer.
- You are forced into a 90° rotated track view, so you always need to reorientate when changing between the 2 main windows
- If you zoom out to the max to see a lot of tracks, the dB numbers are displayed too small (at least on 4k with hdpi), so if you want to actually see well what you are doing when adjusting the faders, you need to zoom in again. But then fewer tracks will be displayed, and more scrolling will be needed (which is not solved really well as stated above). Same thing for the plugin names which get cut when zoomed out.
- Changing between the two views does not feel fluid, it always takes some time to refresh the view, it gets worse with more tracks
- visibility PLE scripts react slower in the mixer view than in the project view
- lots of people prefer 1 monitor over 2, for various reasons

While the mixconsole may be a good thing for people working with max. 20-30 tracks, it is a mess for for people like me who have 100+ track in their projects.
I prefer having all my tracks on the minimum track height as well. But there are indeed possible solutions to display volume/pan/inserts/sends on tracks with minimum track height. That would imho be better than the mixconsole we have now. Check the thread "Vertical Mixconsole in left Zone" there are a lot of great ideas about that: viewtopic.php?f=285&t=171067

To be honest: the whole concept of mixconsole-like views does not really make a lot of sense in digital audio worstations to me. Back in the days you had a mixer with channels from left to right, which was absolutely fine.
Nowadays nearly every DAWs main window is a project window with tracks from top to bottom, and events/audio and midi parts/etc. next to them. Why adding a second (mixconsole) window and not trying to implement everything you need in one main view efficiently?
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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by In_Stereo » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:24 am

J Buckingham wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:01 am
It's not standard because I think it's got something to do with track heights. If your going to hit a key command to zoom in on a track, you may as well open the channel editor or mixer. I know that I personally would not want to work with large track heights. It would create navigating issues. I like being able to see most of the project in project view. The time saved by not needing the mixer would be lost navigating the project. On my 32 inch monitor I can see 10 tracks @ 4 rows high, which is bare minimum for doing the copy inserts thing. In the mixer I can see 31 tracks. I really don't see the issue with one key stroke to open the mixer or channel settings. If it's that big an issue maybe get another monitor. Boom! Done. :idea:
My point is that there are no key commands at all with what I'm talking about: You can fit little volume and pan value boxes with pop-up faders in the tiniest of spaces on the track headers (just like volume is onVSTi tracks, inexplicably only there).

While I understand where you're coming from, when I work on Pro Tools or Reaper or Studio One (and all other DAWs, it seems) it's simply undeniable how much faster it is having track headers with mixer functions. In Pro Tools, highly successful editors and mixers I've worked with rarely need go to the mixer for things like panning, volume adjustment, insert opening and moving/copying/etc., and sends. And it's all completely configurable in PT and instantaneously fast. No extra keystrokes, mouse movements, or new windows are necessary. One screen, two screens, it doesn't matter -- it's the navigating somewhere else and/or having to hit buttons or keystrokes to get to other windows, which both slow things down significantly and hamper intuitive workflow.

I'm dearly hoping Cubase catches up with these other DAWs very soon and gives us the option to be much faster and more fluid in this way. While the mix console is nice in some ways and should stay, in modern days it's really not as useful in many cases as getting it all done efficiently, immediately and smartly in the Project Window would be.
Last edited by In_Stereo on Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by sonic74 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:42 am

+1
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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by mxrlr » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:22 pm

+1

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Re: Another request for more track controls directly on the track headers.

Post by In_Stereo » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:12 am

A refresher bump for those who might not get how this simple thing would save a lot of fluffing about in Cubase.
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