Use group tracks as folders

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peakae
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by peakae »

I hope never, still a bad idea.
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by Musicmould »

peakae wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:56 pm
I hope never, still a bad idea.
So, even though it wouldn't affect you at all, you don't want anyone else to have it?
Grumpy much? :D
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peakae
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by peakae »

But it will affect me, just by wasting resources on a feature that IMHO is unnecessary.
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by Musicmould »

peakae wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:14 pm
But it will affect me, just by wasting resources on a feature that IMHO is unnecessary.
To each his own

Some would say that ARA is unnecessary.
Some would say that loops are unnecessary.
And some might even say that a DAW is unnecessary.

It is probably right for them but a lot a people would disagree and say it’s vital and necessary.

To me, having worked in both Logic and Studio One, I would say that having the option to use group Tracks as folders is an amazing organizational and structually simplifying tool that I miss and I would love to see it in Cubase.
Last edited by Musicmould on Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by ozinga »

After Avid adding it to the upcoming Protools (imo with the best workflow fo the concept), Cubase is the only big gun left without it. I'm sure Steinberg is thinking or working on to add it.

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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by ozinga »

soundpeaks_net wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:46 pm


You won't deny that there are more "noobs" than "PROs" in the world, simply because being a PRO is hard. So noobs will get together and will shout their noobish ideas. And PROs will shout theirs, but they will always be a minority.

So whom Steinberg should listen too?
I'm here not to say your idea is bad. I am here to say there are some more important problems to solve in Cubase.
And you can have a test: if you can name a few bigger issues Cubase have, I'll consider you as a man who knows what is he talking about.

How is it related to being a pro or noob or lazy? It is just a workflow which some users find useful. If we will go to the noob/lazy route I can say chord tracks are lazy and noob. You can also add quantize to the list if you wish.
Anyways at least all the bedroom Protools noobs got it. :lol:

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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by audiosprite »

Every time I stop making music to fiddle with groups and folders and other bull *flower* I remember this is actually good because other users want it this way
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by Tj99 »

peakae wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:14 pm
But it will affect me, just by wasting resources on a feature that IMHO is unnecessary.
/agree!
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chednb
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by chednb »

+1
I would love to have this feature. Maybe just as an addition, so you can choose if you want to use a "normal" group track, or a "folder group" track.

cheers
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by arkhive »

+1
i would love the option to be able to group tracks together and have them automatically bussed into a group track

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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by ggmanestraki »

To be honest I don't understand what function is requested.

- Add selected channels to group: Possible with one key command.
- Move tracks inside folder track: Possible with Click, Shift Click, Drag.
- Move group track inside folder track: Possible with Drag.
- Show Channels that are connected with the First Selected Channel: Erm.

This is possible, IF the command is fired in the Mixconsole, and "Sync Project and Mixconsole selection is enabled", AND you have the folder open in the project window.

I don't understand what exactly is missing in Cubase that having group tracks as folders will solve.

1) I agree that visibility agents could be improved. In the above for example, "show connected channels" could work in the project window. Folders could automatically open when a channel within is selected by other means. This is a feature request. (viewtopic.php?f=285&t=187221)

2) I agree that groups could get a "folderlike" style in mixconsole and apply their own visibilty agents on the spot. (If "sync project and Mixconsole" is enabled, it would apply to the project window too) viewtopic.php?f=285&t=187510

3) I agree that it should be easier to add channels to an existing group. viewtopic.php?f=285&t=187230

Could the OP be more specific? In what ways would group tracks be akin to folders? If we wanted to assign the same track to 3 or 4 different groups, how would that be handled?

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Use Folders as Groups/Buses/Auxes

Post by Musicmould »

ggmanestraki wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:09 pm
To be honest I don't understand what function is requested.

I don't understand what exactly is missing in Cubase that having group tracks as folders will solve.

Could the OP be more specific? In what ways would group tracks be akin to folders? If we wanted to assign the same track to 3 or 4 different groups, how would that be handled?
To clarify

Steinberg/Cubase uses a terminology different than most other daws and that might be confusing.
For instance: In Cubase the Solo "S” is red and the Mute "M” is yellow :roll: which seems like an odd choice since in other daws it’s the other way around - but most importantly:

"Groups" in Cubase are usually referred to as "Buses" or "Auxes" in other daws while "Groups" in other daws are "Links" in Cubase. Confusing? :?

The functionality that is requested is the possibility to let Folders act as Buses/Auxes (Groups in Cubase).
The keyword here is "the possibility". It wouldn't change anything for anyone unless you want to.
If you want to use Cubase exactly the way you have been the last 20 yrs - go ahead - this won't affect you even the slightest.

If you want to activate it you do it folder by folder, no global parameter, just another feature you can activate if you like.
In Studio One for instance, you have an extra button/menu on the folder track where you can "Add Bus Channel" or "Add VCA Fader" to all the tracks in that folder.

So what? You say. Can't you add Bus/Group/Aux to channels in Cubase already?

Of course you can, but the BIG difference here is that if you do it this way - you won't have BOTH a folder and a bus/group/aux because the folder IS the bus/group/aux. It also brings a huge benefit in the console because you can fold away tracks at the click of a button on the folder/bus/group/aux and leaving only the folder/bus/group/aux in the console. This makes for a cleaner console overview with quick and easy navigation if you use a lot of tracks/channels.
In the arrange window it means that you don't need BOTH a bus and a folder (if you don't want to of course).

If you still don't understand the benefits or maybe want to try it out I suggest you check out Studio One or Logic for instance. They have had this functionality a long time.

Recently Pro Tools got it as well and it was announced by AVID as "the most requested feature" but I haven't had the pleasure of trying it in PT myself yet. https://youtu.be/012zn3MJyxQ

Please, Steinberg, make this a part of the next update. It is definately MY most requested feature.
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by ggmanestraki »

Musicmould wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 11:47 am
Of course you can, but the BIG difference here is that if you do it this way - you won't have BOTH a folder and a bus/group because the folder IS the bus/group. It also brings a huge benefit in the console because you can fold away tracks at the click of a button on the folder/bus/group and leaving only the folder/bus/group in the console. This makes for a cleaner console overview with quick and easy navigation if you use a lot of tracks/channels.
In the arrange window it means that you don't need BOTH a bus and a folder (if you don't want to of course).
Thanks for taking the time to write this down.

For the quoted part, my thoughts:

I absolutely need this function! BUT: I don't want to have two different flavors of folders, one that is a dumb container and one THAT PASSES AUDIO.

I think it would be more elegant if folders remained folders and groups remained groups, but both of them would be able to expand/reduce (or spill/close or whatever other synonym), in both the arrangement window, and the mixconsole.

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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by Musicmould »

ggmanestraki wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 3:32 pm
I think it would be more elegant if folders remained folders and groups remained groups, but both of them would be able to expand/reduce (or spill/close or whatever other synonym), in both the arrangement window, and the mixconsole.
If it was implemented like it is in Studio One, you would be able to expand folders in both arrangement and mixconsole but the only way to "expand" Groups/Buses is if the channels are inside a Group/Bus-folder.

Howewer, Universal Audio new daw Luna has a smart "Spill" feature where you have a "Spill" button on the Group/Bus and when you activate it you ONLY see the Group/Bus and the channels that are connected to that Group/Bus. It's really handy, especially if you have a habit of routing channels that are located in different places of the mixer/console to the same bus. It would definitely make for another useful feature request.
Last edited by Musicmould on Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ggmanestraki
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by ggmanestraki »

Musicmould wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:16 am

Howewer, Universal Audio new daw Luna has a smart "Spill" feature where you have a "Spill" button on the Group/Bus and when you activate it you ONLY see the Group/Bus and the channels that are connected to that Group/Bus. It's really handy, especially if you have a habit of routing channels that are located in different places of the mixer/console to the same bus. It would definitely make for another useful feature request.
Cubase has this too, but it's hidden in right click menus, plus it's not a toggle. (you can't press the same button twice and have the group show/hide. Actually, there is no button, it's a key command)

That's why I'm more in favor of Steinberg tightening up visibility agents and refine those obscure commands (show connected channel). They would allow for the exact same functionality, plus they are halfway there already. If they start messing with folders and groups (and effect and vca since they fall in the same category), I'm afraid we might have a genie story situation in our hands. :D

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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by Musicmould »

ggmanestraki wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:57 am

Cubase has this too, but it's hidden in right click menus, plus it's not a toggle. (you can't press the same button twice and have the group show/hide. Actually, there is no button, it's a key command)
Yeah, I have always considered it useless since it's not a toggle.
Nothing except the connected channels are displayed (everything else hidden) and then you're like, ok, how do I go back? :roll:

If you really need a Spill feature I guess a macro that first stores the Config and then executes the keycommand to show connected channels could solve that problem and afterwards, just recall the Config and you're good to go.
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by Centralmusic »

peakae wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:56 pm
I hope never, still a bad idea.
+1 !
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by Musicmould »

peakae wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:56 pm
I hope never, still a bad idea.
Some said inventing the wheel was a bad idea.
Still, it turned out to be quite useful.
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Re: Use group tracks as folders

Post by n0xin »

+1

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