When is the next Nuendo update?

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by DTSR »

Fredo wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:52 am
Look, when a version doesn't pass QA, then it means that something "critical" is causing instability or that at functionality is broken without workaround. I am sure that nobody wants such a version to be released.
Such a version was released, it's called Nuendo 8, and that was 9 months ago, when we paid to beta-test it for Steinberg, then came 8.1, so are we gama testing now or is it a case of perpetual beta? Fact is the gold version seems like a pipe dream, but that's what we paid for.
Fredo wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:52 am
Sorry for being cynical.
dito.

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by ChrisPolus »

Fredo wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:52 am
Apparently everybody is right all of the time ....
When it's released on time it's: HOW CAN THEY RELEASE THAT WITH THIS AND THAT BUG REMAINING!!!!!
When they try to fix a few critical things and burn the deadline: BROKE A PROMISE!!!!
Of course, that's what users do! :)

However, I find it curious that apparently, the release version got through all those rigorous testing procedures that take weeks. But it still was released with some apparent bugs and especially UI problems that made it barely usable, at least on Mac. Now, it's 8 months in, and there's still no fix for us. Since then, we're waiting and hoping it gets resolved. We're sitting on red hot coal, which feels quite uncomfortable ;) And now, after 8 months, where there was finally light at the end of the tunnel, there's just a statement, sorry guys, we found something, we have to fix this and then start testing from scratch, which takes another month. ANOTHER MONTH?

Look every Software has bugs, I get it. Software development is hard. But Steinberg has built up a consistent history by now of releasing major new versions with a lot of problems for many people and then taking months, three quarters of a year, to fix the initial bugs. One would think their planning would improve so they could get much needed fixes to their customers quicker. And in this light, pushing the update back another month just adds to the frustration that built up over the past 8 months. It's human feelings. Has nothing to do with technical software development but people and expectations.

Both of your points above are right. But there's a middle ground. How about releasing a major version that mostly works, and then issue quick hot fixes fast one after another to mitigate the release bugs that cannot be avoided. So that hopefully, after 2 months, the version your users paid for runs smoothly. Then one can concentrate on further development.

I'm just surprised it takes another 4 weeks to fix a QA showstopper and test everything again. Must be one hell of a testing procedure. Which then brings me back to the first point. Why haven't all the annoying bugs we experience been found and fixed earlier, prior to release of 8 maybe, if they're testing that thorough. Because to me it seems like we now get the worst of both worlds. First, a very buggy major release, and then huge waiting times for fixes to show up.

But I'm just a paying customer. What do I possibly have to add to that discussion.
(Sorry for being cynical.)
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by Romantique Tp »

It will take 4 weeks because they decided to include more bug fixes that were scheduled for the next maintenance update, since the update is being sent back to testing anyway.

You guys are focusing too much on dates and ignoring the rest of the post. You want a bug free Nuendo 8, right? They're trying to give you that.
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by ChrisPolus »

Romantique Tp wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:52 pm
You guys are focusing too much on dates and ignoring the rest of the post.
No, actually I'm not. I'm just already waiting for a very long time to get a Nuendo version that works well, not with tons of workarounds. Just works. As advertised. All the functions. Even works great. Is that too much to ask?

It is possible. I use other complex software. Those work really, really well and also, features work as advertised, and if there are kind of critical bugs, hot fixes are issued pretty quickly. It doesn't take 8 months. It's a reasonable thing to ask in most places.

I'm not pointing to a date and cry like a child because I'm not getting it. I'm annoyed because the annoyance has built-up for 8 months. It's a lot of annoyance!

And not a vote of confidence if it takes 8 months to fix what's been broken from the initial release.
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by Romantique Tp »

No, I agree that the fixes are coming more slowly than desirable, but this next update was found to have issues so it will have to be delayed a bit, like it or not. They really have no other option, so might as well take the chance to fix even more bugs, no? This extends the testing period by a few more days, which I knows is annoying, but in return you wont have to wait months for these extra bugs to be fixed.
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by DTSR »

Romantique Tp wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:53 pm
They really have no other option, so might as well take the chance to fix even more bugs, no?
Correct, it's a 'no', the other option would be to actually do the work at the appropriate time and release a stable version (very minor bugs granted). The option they chose was to get us guinea pigs to front cash for a beta version.

And you know, I get it, some people think we are moaners, but let's look at it this way, there is nothing more frustrating than music/audio tech stuff not working when you are trying to just get on with things and maintain productivity, there are enough creative challenges to have to deal with without having to then struggle with dysfunctional tech.

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by fenderchris »

DTSR wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:25 pm
Romantique Tp wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:53 pm
They really have no other option, so might as well take the chance to fix even more bugs, no?
Correct, it's a 'no', the other option would be to actually do the work at the appropriate time and release a stable version (very minor bugs granted). The option they chose was to get us guinea pigs to front cash for a beta version.

And you know, I get it, some people think we are moaners, but let's look at it this way, there is nothing more frustrating than music/audio tech stuff not working when you are trying to just get on with things and maintain productivity, there are enough creative challenges to have to deal with without having to then struggle with dysfunctional tech.
I can't disagree with that.
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by deneverstudio »

stilus wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:03 am
Fredo, you've right! BUT - we BOUGHT Nuendo version 8 update in JUNE 2017! 8 months ago! And software UPDATE which I bought (for almost half the price of Cubase Pro 9.5 btw!!!) stil doesn't work as it should! After 8 months!
Because of GUI issues is for us, MAC users almost unusable on large projects!

Man ... I wonder if anyone at Steinberg is testing the software before it is placed on the market. Sorry for being cynical but - after 9 months I expect a version without ANY bugs.

Increase price of the software that I cannot use?? Come on! I expect at least 2 YEARS I will not pay for any updates. I don't trust Steinberg anymore. Sorry.
Exactly.
+1000!!!
It was enough!
We always get a very bad beta version.
The last working version was the N4 32 bit.
Long time ago.
Anyway the C9.5 also dont't work.

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by ChrisPolus »

Romantique Tp wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:53 pm
No, I agree that the fixes are coming more slowly than desirable, but this next update was found to have issues so it will have to be delayed a bit, like it or not.
Right, personally, I don't like it.

But don't get me wrong.
Do I think Steinberg should release a stable patch? Sure.
Do I think it's OK to take more time because a critical bug was found? Absolutely!

However

Do I think that after 8 months it's about time to finally release a patch that (hopefully) fixes what's been broken in the original release of N8? Yep.
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by MattiasNYC »

I think the real crux of everything hinges upon one key question: Can development be sped up with more resources available?

I have a very hard time thinking the answer to that is "no", because it implies that no matter the organization or amount of assets spent on development the peak development speed has been reached for Nuendo. It would mean that no entity, not even one like Apple or Mircrosoft with their vast resources, could ever make development go faster.

Now, if you agree that that's an absurd proposition, and that it could be faster given more resources, then the question for us consumers is the prioritization of resources by Steinberg. Yet whenever this is brought up the answer amounts to that previously absurd proposition, that no matter how Steinberg decides to spend it's assets there is no way at all ever to speed up Nuendo development.

It's obviously a cop out, and every single time I see Steinberg output something else while what I've paid for is unfixed I cringe. I cringe because I know assets - my money - actually goes to fixing or creating other stuff rather than fixing what I paid for as fast as possible.

Having said all of that however I don't have a problem with version 8, because I didn't upgrade yet... because I learned my lesson last time!
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by ChrisPolus »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:48 pm
I think the real crux of everything hinges upon one key question: Can development be sped up with more resources available?
It can be done and there are plenty of examples out there. Logic for one (just because I know it). Its team isn't big either I think, but they manage to release very stable versions where major features work like a charm, and have a few patch and additional feature releases in a year. Same goes for Final Cut. They put out very solid releases with good new features about once a year, with minor patches and fixes during the year. I use them both regularly and also foolishly rush to install every new version the moment they are released. In the last years I haven't had a single issue with any new release. New versions have been improvements all around, from the first minute.
The wildest thing I've seen is DaVinci Resolve 14 where they put so many huge features in a release, it's mind-boggling. I haven't used Resolve in a while but I heard from peers it's been working well. Resolve must be a hugely complex project, and since v14.0 was released September 2017 they had 6 update releases with looong lists of fixes, improvements and new features.

Somehow other companies seem to manage this just fine.

So why don't I switch you may ask, if the grass is greener everywhere else and Steinberg seems to annoy me so much?

1) Nuendo does things no other software does for my field of work. If I switch, my everyday tasks get more tedious. These comfortable time-saver functions come at a high price though, namely Nuendo's buggyness, that consistently interrupts my workflow, whereas all other software I use around Nuendo don't seem to suffer from it to that degree. A steep price given that Nuendo is easily the most expensive software I use.

2) I paid a lot for this software and integrated it into my workflow, bought hardware for it, switching is not that easy. I bought into this ecosystem.

3) And Timo in his posts gave me a straw of hope to hold on to, namely more devs coming to Nuendo, possible improvements in UX and GUI consistency, and a more modern copy protection somewhen in the future. It's a thin straw for now, we'll see how it pans out in the future.

There you have it. If there would be an alternative that would work better for me / or similar but with fewer bugs, I'd be gone. But Nuendo is currently the better option. It's the lesser evil than switching to something that lowers my productivity. Which doesn't make all of this less annoying.
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by Alex Motylev »

I also still have hope for nuendo, but releasing such version as 8 and not fixing it for 8 months is unacceptable. Someone should be fired :evil:

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by Zinnematic »

I still can't quite believe that a top post production DAW like Nuendo doesn't have a way to export audio to movie files, and according to the devs, will not have this functionality until version 9. Nuendo has a lot going for it, but that's a killer to me. I understand the workarounds using other software, but for a lot of my work, it just doesn't cut it.
I also agree with the slow update cycle comments - seems painfully slow compared to the competition.

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by drorh4 »

Zinnematic wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:58 pm
I still can't quite believe that a top post production DAW like Nuendo doesn't have a way to export audio to movie files, and according to the devs, will not have this functionality until version 9.
I must say that with the NEK policy(RIP) this is the most ridiculous thing about Nuendo. One of te most advanced DAWs and still, on friday a director told me "OK. just finish asap, I dont have time and men to take audio from u, just send me a quick video for rejections".
and I was like "mmmm....Joe, sorry man I cant do it on the fly maybe youd like me to finish first and then?"

not much to say about it but this is absurd.
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by Zinnematic »

Exactly right - I will work on just a section of a film or commercial or whatever, and the director wants to see that scene - in almost any other DAW I can just highlight the scene and bounce to quicktime - it will make a new copy of just that section in 1 shot. Super convenient.

Like I said, Nuendo has a lot of good - I'm not complaining because it does what it does quite well for the most part. But a post production DAW, and an expensive one, that can't export audio to video, is pretty strange to me. And I understand the end of life for Quicktime and re-built video engine, but still. I very much doubt that I am going to wait for yet another paid upgrade until this becomes more feasible when others already do it.

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by AlexBell »

Easiest workaround is to keep a copy of N7 and use that, but I agree, it was a brilliant and necesarry feature that I don't understand why they deleted.

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

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AlexBell wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:54 pm
Easiest workaround is to keep a copy of N7 and use that, but I agree, it was a brilliant and necesarry feature that I don't understand why they deleted.
I don't think Steinberg deleted it. QuickTime was end of live and could not be used anymore. As a consequence, Steinberg had to develop their own video engine from scratch, which is a major undertaking. They just didn't get around to implementing video export as a feature. As we heard, it's on the feature list for Nuendo 9. I guess pulling QuickTime from under everyone by Apple was not the nice thing to do so I don't fault Steinberg for having to develop their own video engine that takes time and engineers.

But from a communication perspective, and for the pro level class Nuendo plays in, it's not the nice thing to do toyour customers releasing a version that misses video export that many people rely on in their workflows, not saying anything, letting your users find out and suffer workarounds, and only bringing it back in the next major paid upgrade. If anything, as a N8 customer, you should get any feature that was there in previous versions back free of charge.
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by Fredo »

I read this thread as if Nuendo ever had video export in a previous version.
That is not correct.
We never had the possibility to export video + audio.

I also doubt that is working well or at all in PT. All the people I spoke do their exports in QT, because of codec and speed issues.
But it might be that I was hearing biassed stories

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by drorh4 »

Dear Fredo,
in PT it works perfect. I know cause I use also protools and this is also my very time consuming work around.
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by Dolfo »

Will be it implemented? I think I read about it somewhere...
It's useful, even necessary at all because if Nuendo is a tool for post (it's, no doubt), a video export should be available.

You can export audio from FinalCut Pro. It's no necessary to work with a DAW if you want to send audio from a clip for synchronizing purposes, for example.

It would increase our user experience and lots of render and cross-application work would not be necessary.

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by Zinnematic »

So even in N7, you have to do what's called "Replace Audio in Video File", where you bounce out the audio mix, and then in another step you select the audio file, and then you select the video file, and it replaces the audio in the video. And it only works on the entire video file. A bit cumbersome compared to others.
I can confirm that in PT, Logic, DP and Reaper, you can simply select a *section* of video, then choose "Bounce to Quicktime" or "Export audio to movie" (in Logic), and it will bounce out a copy of JUST THE SELECTED SECTION in a single command. They all do it, except Nuendo, which currently in V8 doesn't even do the more cumbersome Replace Audio in Video File.
I do this all the time in PT and Logic - never had an issue and it is a great timesaver, at least for my workflow.

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by Fredo »

Dunno why I've been told that they (the PT users I spoke) were also using QT ...

But there is no doubt that we need this feature.
And it is "on the list". As Timo announced for Nuendo 9.

Don't want to sound defensive, but I think I will still prefer doing this "on the side" in another application.
When working in a DAW, you are using per definition a video format which is too large to be send over the internet.
So you still need to convert to another format, like H264 or mp4. You can't "quickly" send a ProRes or DnDx by mail.
Having done that a lot of times in QT, this takes an aweful amount of time.
I feel nothing for a cafeine-addiction if you know what I mean.

So unless this video export-thing is (much) faster than it is in QuickTime, it's a no-go for me.
But for smaller stuff, like commercials, it would be super-handy.

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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by MattiasNYC »

Fredo wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:56 pm
there is no doubt that we need this feature.
And it is "on the list". As Timo announced for Nuendo 9.
I seem to recall it was originally supposed to be in version 8.x. It's a bit troubling to hear it's now slipping.

Having said that though, I agree that for long-form content it may be faster to do it in another app, such as Resolve actually.

Then again, it sort of reminds me of what I said before which was that Resolve now including Fairlight allowing for at least final mixdowns from splits or stems might push some to spend more in that app than PT and Nuendo... which isn't a great thing...
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by MattiasNYC »

ChrisPolus wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:55 pm
I guess pulling QuickTime from under everyone by Apple was not the nice thing to do so I don't fault Steinberg for having to develop their own video engine that takes time and engineers.
I don't agree with that description.

The decision to use QT was one that Steinberg made, and once that was done there was a dependency on Apple. Apple in turn is known for just dropping technology, so that was a somewhat questionable move in my opinion, but perhaps it could be justified at the time. However, once that was created, I think the rational thing to do would have been to start the development of a better Apple-independent video engine, and it seems that wasn't done until Apple dropped support for QT.

And so lastly: QT for playback still works just fine in earlier versions of Nuendo 7, so we can't blame Apple for this. All they did was cease support for it because of the QT player vulnerability. But since the player isn't needed for Nuendo 7.x QT video playback it wasn't Apple's fault that we're now left without this capability.
ChrisPolus wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:55 pm
But from a communication perspective, and for the pro level class Nuendo plays in, it's not the nice thing to do toyour customers releasing a version that misses video export that many people rely on in their workflows, not saying anything, letting your users find out and suffer workarounds, and only bringing it back in the next major paid upgrade. If anything, as a N8 customer, you should get any feature that was there in previous versions back free of charge.
I think they were clear with that it would be missing from at least the first release of Nuendo 8. I seem to recall someone saying it would come later in v8 though.
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Re: When is the next Nuendo update?

Post by Zinnematic »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:24 pm
I think they were clear with that it would be missing from at least the first release of Nuendo 8. I seem to recall someone saying it would come later in v8 though.
I think you're right but confirmed by Timo in another thread that it will not be available until V9.

I agree with the idea that for long form rendering, Resolve or other options are fine and probably better even than going directly from the DAW. But for short form rendering, say just wanting to shoot out a 2 minute section of a full length film, the DAW should be able to do that - just for reference usage. I know that at least Reaper can even convert video format at the render stage. Size would not be an issue in these cases.

I also agree that this is not Apple's fault - because as I said, the other DAWS can still do it. This seems like a decision by Steinberg that simply wasn't carried out in time.

Just my opinion : )

PS - Fredo I want a set of those earphones you have in the pic............

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