Direct offline processing barely usable...

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by MattiasNYC »

Not a lot of participation from Steinberg here....
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by Romantique Tp »

I assume that they had this working and thoroughly tested many months ago along with most new features, but at some point a small slip up broke it and managed to sneak into the final version since they were so focused on the new video engine. It happens.

This is a huge issue so they'll probably fix it really soon. Can't really compare it to the VCA bugs since this is a feature used by almost everyone and VCAs are much more complex.
Every time someone says "it must be easy to add/fix", a programmer dies.

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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by MattiasNYC »

Romantique Tp wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:30 am
This is a huge issue so they'll probably fix it really soon. Can't really compare it to the VCA bugs since this is a feature used by almost everyone and VCAs are much more complex.
Well, we've had decades to learn to use offline processing because it was in the very first version of Nuendo (which I got btw), whereas VCAs that actually work haven't been in Nuendo for much more than a year, if that even. So no, they're not comparable in that sense.

I'm also not sure that VCAs are much more complex. In terms of design it's pretty simple actually. At the absolute simplest it's just a matter of copying Pro Tools and then that's it. As for programming it, I think complexity is irrelevant, because a responsible company rolls out new features when they're ready, which means working, not before.

The reason I compared it to VCAs was because it was a new feature that was left unresolved for a ridiculously long time, and that's a cause for concern for all those who paid for version 8. With big issues like these (I think both are big issues, for different reasons) the only right thing is immediate communication and immediate fixing of the issue. That's not what history shows us Steinberg does, which is disappointing.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by In_Stereo »

Agreed MattiasNYC. Especially when you've paid 1,400 freaking dollars for something that's supposed to be top-of-the-line; Nuendo 8 is hardly top-of-the-line since I can't actually use it right now due to these problems. It's like buying a brand new BMW M3 and not being able to get it out of the parking lot because the engine keeps stopping.

I need to stop before I go into useless rant mode. :D But I do feel that I and others here are completely justifiable with our anger and disappointment.
Last edited by In_Stereo on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by MattiasNYC »

To make it feel better I actually have to say that Nuendo 7 is worth 1,400.... So there's that at least...
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

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In_Stereo wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:51 am
Agreed MattiasNYC. Especially when you've paid 1,400 freaking dollars for something that's supposed to be top-of-the-line; Nuendo 8 is hardly top-of-the-line since I can't actually use it right now due to these problems. It's like buying a brand new BMW M3 and not being able to get it out of the parking lot because the engine keeps stopping.

I need to stop before I go into useless rant mode. :D But I do feel that I and others here are completely justifiable with our anger and disappointment.
Definitely. Just explaining how it might have happened.

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Install Nuendo 8 first. This will give you access to most new VST/sample content from 8.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

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Romantique Tp wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:08 am

Definitely. Just explaining how it might have happened.

Totally, yeah. I wasn't referring to your post -- what you're saying could definitely be a possibility.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by soligne »

I think it's a bit of a hit and miss.. once the new offline processing will work and all the workflow issues + bugs + 3rd party incompatibilities are resolved I actually think the new system will be a massive improvement! But releasing it in a state that misses previous features and has a lot of incompatibilities is in my opinion really bad for Nuendos overall reputation.

While I trust that bugs/workflow issues on the DOP end of things will be fixed by Steinberg, I see more issues with 3rd party apps that suddenly have issues with the new System but worked fine in Nuendo 7.

Personally, I have problems with RX Connect, Soundtoys (certain plugins start processing a few seconds delayed), Reaktor (Window minimizes to unusable size in DOP window) and Fabfilter (random crashes) + Softube Plugins (sometimes just a black ui screen and Nuendo Crashes)

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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by Max Stirner »

I agree, this should be fixed ASAP. As for releasing it early, without a release, I would now be on Nuendo 7. With the release I am now back on Nuendo 7, but might actually start using Nuendo 8 for final mixes. So I am not really worse off. Well ok, I have spend some money on the update. But I would have spend that money anyway, once these bugs are fixed. Overall, I am very satisfied with Nuendo. It has a lot of tools that Pro Tools does not have. And I am paying a lot less money for it.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

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Max Stirner wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:04 am
I agree, this should be fixed ASAP. As for releasing it early, without a release, I would now be on Nuendo 7. With the release I am now back on Nuendo 7, but might actually start using Nuendo 8 for final mixes. So I am not really worse off. Well ok, I have spend some money on the update. But I would have spend that money anyway, once these bugs are fixed. Overall, I am very satisfied with Nuendo. It has a lot of tools that Pro Tools does not have. And I am paying a lot less money for it.
I would love be satisfied enough to use it, but the GUI issue is non-workable for me (do you have the Mac GUI issue? If not, you're lucky!), as is DOP. That's why I'm back on Pro Tools until N8 is good enough to work on. I was hoping to get off of PT completely within a few months, but at this point with both C9 and N8 I don't see that happening any time soon. I never had N7 -- I came on to the Steinberg boat with C8 (right before C8.5 came out), and now am so used to many of the newer features from C8.5 and C9 that I don't want to go backwards.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by MattiasNYC »

I still think Nuendo v7 is worth using. Like I've said before, there are few new features in v8 that in and by themselves are so significant that they warrant an upgrade (for me) and even less so a crossgrade from PT. But I recommend using v7. It's a very, very good DAW.


......although I think RX is still working better with PT......
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by Jorgen »

I used Nuendo 8 on a project where i had to use izotope de-noise with manual analyzing. I found it too time consuming so i went back to Nuendo 7. I hope to see a feature where it is possible to analyze a part without actually applying the effect. The best thing would be to have the old offline processing as an option.

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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by MattiasNYC »

Yesterday and Saturday I worked on two different projects. The first was a short film with a duration of 8 minutes, and the second was a 10-hr shift on a TV show, duration 45 minutes.

During both of these I made extensive use of the RX editor. The short was all in Nuendo v7 (Win 7 PC), and the TV show was all in Pro Tools v12 (Mac trashcan).

Going directly from one setup to the other, within an hour, the difference in workflow and speed is truly striking. RX Connect is way faster in PT than in Nuendo. When you do about 20-22 hrs over two days, intensely, back to back on these platforms, you really notice the difference.

I think it's sad that Steinberg is so lax on this and are letting it "slide" the way they do. I appreciate the effort here to improve on processing, but it just seems it missed the mark by a mile. And this is after years of requests to fix this and make it more easy to use because RX is a de facto standard.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by Oliver.Lucas »

N8 was by far the worst that could have happened to Nuendo as an audio post application.
Now, I guess they need to get Cubase ready for Xmas. My guess is they will get this working for N8.5 in one or two years, until then we can use N7 and see a couple of Cubase iterations.
Or maybe they will drop Nuendo and just include the features in Cubase. Obviously there is noone left who cares for audio post at Steinberg. Maybe Yamaha pulled the trigger on Nuendo, because nauage did not sell as expected?
A company that cares does not release a software like N8 and leaves it unpatched.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

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Oliver.Lucas wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:22 pm
Maybe Yamaha pulled the trigger on Nuendo, because nauage did not sell as expected?
If that would be true I would cry for a year... 2 Fader and 1 Master Unit arrived yesterday :roll:

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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by In_Stereo »

Luckily I was able to get a refund through the place I bought the upgrade from. I can't rationalize spending this kind of big money on something I can't use. I can always upgrade later if things ever get fixed and if I'm still in the Cubendo world at that point.

I'll keep checking in now and then to see what the situation is. Best of luck to everyone who is in the same boat, and hopefully you won't need to stay on N7 for too much longer.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by audiomonkeys »

Yes a Nuendo 8 needs a hand full of new futures fixed but hey, I paid 4 times that much for protools upgrades in the last two years that offered NO substantial improvement and to this day still had major problems.

Don't tell me that your client walks into a playback session of your mix and has 0 notes, most likely has a few notes or pages right, does he or she storm out of the room and tells you he'll never work with you again.
just saying

;)
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

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$250.00 US is big money?
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by In_Stereo »

Getalife2 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:11 pm
$250.00 US is big money?
$1400 is. I upgraded from Cubase.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by In_Stereo »

audiomonkeys wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:21 pm
Yes a Nuendo 8 needs a hand full of new futures fixed but hey, I paid 4 times that much for protools upgrades in the last two years that offered NO substantial improvement and to this day still had major problems.

Don't tell me that your client walks into a playback session of your mix and has 0 notes, most likely has a few notes or pages right, does he or she storm out of the room and tells you he'll never work with you again.
just saying

;)
I appreciate your analogy, but it's not applicable in this case. Clients needing revisions is on an entirely different plane from the workstation that you do your actual work on. Revisions are part of any creative work, are expected, and usually get done very quickly, whereas the workstation is the means to DO those revisions and to do them quickly and efficiently. Bugs are expected in any DAW, but not bugs where I can't actually work with Nuendo 8 at the speed that I need to work at and that my clients are used to, what with the GUI issue and DOP. It might be different for you, and awesome if it is -- truly, that's good. For me and the way I need to work, no. No arguing this -- it's just how it is for me and it looks like for some others here as well.

I had hoped I was done with Pro Tools partly because of the exact reason you posted. I guess not, for now. :( The difference again is that the problems in PT don't prevent me from working at the speed I need to, even if they're as annoying as some of the other non-GUI or non-DOP related problems in Nuendo or any other DAW. I hope to be able to come back -- I really do.
Last edited by In_Stereo on Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 16 times in total.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by In_Stereo »

Mispost.
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by Getalife2 »

In_Stereo wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:05 am
Getalife2 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:11 pm
$250.00 US is big money?
$1400 is. I upgraded from Cubase.
Ahh, I see. I apologize. I agree and empathize with your pain,
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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by robft »

After buying the "upgrade" to N8, I also had to go back to N7 for most of my work. The offline processing issues and the disabled (grayed out) Close Gaps (Time Stretch) function are unacceptable for my work flow. An "upgrade", especially one that costs money, should not break older, well working features like this. Adding new features while breaking older fully functioning features is not acceptable in the professional workplace.

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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by Thorsten Marx »

Hello,
I'd like to share some information diretly from the Nuendo development with you. We are aware about some problems with the Direct Offline Processing and were are currently working on an update that is supposed to solve much of the issues reported here. The update is scheduled for release in September.

Particularly the following issues are under control:
  • Audition not working reliably.
    Stability issue with applying GUI-less processes such like reverse, silence.
    Parameters not properly applied when Auto-Apply = OFF.
    Disabled (grayed out) Close Gaps (Time Stretch) function.
    Other issues which are likely related to what you are experiencing.

However, other plug-in related issues reported here need evaluation:
  • Fabfilter plug-in compatibility issues. might need an update from Fabfilter, we'll check with them.
    Auto Tune only makes effect when preview but not appled. We'll check with Antaris.
    Soundtoys plug-ins. Known issue. We're in contact with them and they are aware of the problem.
The following issues mentioned in this thread are not known at all so we'd need somewhat more details to work on them:
  • Why does it drop the overall level while the Offline Processing window is open?
    Parameter changes don't apply (or after several tries).
    When I use keyboard shortcuts, the direct offline process doesn't understand anything half of the time.
For details and specific problem reports, please feel free to also contact me directly. That is the most efficient way to get things addressed.

Thanks,
Thorsten
Thorsten Marx, Product Planning Manager Pro Audio
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

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Re: Direct offline processing barely usable...

Post by Oliver.Lucas »

Will that update address rx6 connect issues?
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