4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

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4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by metrosuperstar » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:11 pm

I was doing so well getting ONE orchestral template filled up with an articulation per track (disabled of course), until I apparently hit the 4GB file size. Went to open it now and got the dread Cubase version 1x error message. See screenshot.

Seriously Steinberg, if there is a file size limit to your CPR files, WRITE IT IN THE MANUAL, or better yet, don't allow us to save! That way we will still have the working file open. Ugh...
Template (CPR) files Get Corrupted at 4GB.jpg
(20.91 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Hi,

I'm not aware of any kind of limit. What is so big in your project?

How is your HDD formate? Do you use HDD or SSD?
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by KHS » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:28 pm

It's not a Cubase limitation but a limitation of the .Wav file standard. No .Wav file can be larger than 4 GB, if you need larger files then use the W64 standard (64 bit Wave).

From the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAV

Limitations[edit]
The WAV format is limited to files that are less than 4 GiB, because of its use of a 32-bit unsigned integer to record the file size header (some programs limit the file size to 2 GB)[citation needed]. Although this is equivalent to about 6.8 hours of CD-quality audio (44.1 kHz, 16-bit stereo), it is sometimes necessary to exceed this limit, especially when greater sampling rates, bit resolutions or channel count are required. The W64 format was therefore created for use in Sound Forge. Its 64-bit header allows for much longer recording times. The RF64 format specified by the European Broadcasting Union has also been created to solve this problem.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:59 pm

@KHS: Are you sure, there is such a big WAV file in the template?

In Cubase preferences > Record > Audio, there is an item: When Recording Wave Files larger than 4GB... The default settings is: Use RF64 Format, which solves the 4GB WAV file limit issue. But I don't know, if there was a WAV file recorded to the template.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by KHS » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:14 pm

Yes I'm pretty sure about the Wav file size limit. However if that is the actually problem with OP, I'm not sure about. It could also be a problem if OP is only using the 32 bit version of Cubase 8.5 (don't know if that is the case), albeit that should only give RAM limitation but one newer knows.
Also it does seems that OP is not actually recording as it would take many many hours of recording to hit the 4 GB file size limit and as soon as you hit stop then the next time you start to record it should record in a new file.

Maybe OP can explain a little more what he is trying to do and how he do it?
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:47 pm

I mean, how do you know, there is such a big file in the template?
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by KHS » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:19 pm

Well read the OP again. He said it was working fine until he hit the 4 GB file size limit.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:29 pm

I have read this. I just wonder, where does this file size come from (what was my 1st question).

@metrosuperstar: It would be, if you could explain. Thanks. ;-)

The project file itself doesn't contain the Audio files (these are handled externally). So if really the CPR file is 4GB, then it must be something else.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by metrosuperstar » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:06 pm

In response to the questions asked... this is NOT a wav file. This is a TEMPLATE file, therefore has the .cpr extension. I am using thousands of tracks (all disabled), each one loads an instance of Kontakt. I don't "know" why such a thing bloats the cpr as I thought that the bulk of a cpr file was symbolic links to outside resources.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by KHS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:42 pm

@Martin.Jirsak

Read the Wiki link I posted above. Basically the 4 GB limit comes from the fact that Wav files are using a 32bit Integer file header and thus cannot support larger files.


@metrosuperstar

Are you using a 32bit or 64bit Cubase version?
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by metrosuperstar » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:52 pm

Hi Martin, I'm using 9.5.10 Pro (64-bit). Inside Cubase I use 24-bit and have processing precision set to 64-bit.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:53 pm

KHS wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:42 pm
@Martin.Jirsak

Read the Wiki link I posted above. Basically the 4 GB limit comes from the fact that Wav files are using a 32bit Integer file header and thus cannot support larger files.
I know this WAV limitation and the reason. My point was, the WAV cannot be the reason here.

Cubase 9 and Cubase 9.5 is 64bit only. So I'm sure he is using 64bit Cubase.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by KHS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:14 pm

Yeah, I got that now with the clarification from metrosuperstar. I do suspect it is some kind of RAM issue though, either from running 32bit Cubase or simply because the Project file combined with all the Kontakt instances are using more RAM than he has but not sure though.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by metrosuperstar » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:17 pm

64-bit Windows 10, 64-bit Cubase 9.5.10, 32GB RAM
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by KHS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:21 pm

Maybe just for a test, try to rename the folder in which your Kontakt dll is located, to see if Cubase will open the file when it cannot load all those Kontakt instances.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by -steve- » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:22 pm

Some clarification would be helpful here.

Since the error message in the OP does not mention file size how do you know that's the issue?

I suspect that the file size idea is a red herring.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by KHS » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:24 pm

OP message does mention that he hit the 4 GB file size, hence i thought he was talking about a 4 GB Wav file but that is not the case.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates?

Post by -steve- » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:36 am

Right. I'm saying that the assumption about this being caused by file size is erroneous.

It is conceivable that a cpr file could be corrupt, and the file system could show its size as being enormous.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by metrosuperstar » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:27 pm

I was able to reproduce the error a few times when building up templates again and hitting that point. However, Steinberg does not think that there would be a ceiling on file size but maybe has to do with RAM use at a certain point. Don't know. Weird. Tracks are disabled. I have 32GB RAM. Anyway, I decided to break up my orchestral templates in smaller templates and then use Import Tracks from Other Projects if I ever want to bring in more stuff. Just for my own education though... is it possible yet to copy a track (or folder of tracks) from an open project onto another? This would be quicker than using the Import Tracks option.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:37 pm

Hi,

I would like to reproduce it here.

Could you provide one of your large template? Or multiple templates, which crashes when I combine them? It would be easier to reproduce it this way then just to try to make a large template, and don't know by which data should I fill it in. Thanks.

You cannot copy the tracks, you can copy the data from project to another one.

Maybe Track presets would help on your case?
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by metrosuperstar » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:40 pm

Hi Martin, I cannot upload a 4GB template. All I can say if if you have ALOT of massive Kontakt libraries, and a free afternoon, you could do what I did and create a track for every single articulation in each of those libraries until you have thousands...

I'm not sure about the track preset suggestion but I'll keep it in mind.

I will also post a feature request so that when we use Import Tracks from Project we have the ability to use CTRL or SHIFT to select quickly a large number of tracks. Checking them off one by one is very tedious, and I certainly don't want to do Select All.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by -steve- » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:10 pm

This turned out to be quite easy to reproduce, actually.

New project
Add 16,000 disabled Instrument track instances of Halion Sonic SE. (I added an organ, disabled the track and then repeatedly invoked select-all, duplicate track)
Save project
Try to reopen, project is corrupt.

Note, Cubase memory use exceeded the physical memory (16gb here) and was using the page file, so things got very slow. I was able to save the project though. Cubase could not quit afterwards, and never let go of the more than 16gb ram it had reserved, so I forced it to terminate.
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:45 pm

Thank you Steve!
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by metrosuperstar » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:32 am

Wow, Steve! I'm impressed! :)

So does this mean a bug with Cubase? I'd like to understand why this is happening...
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Re: 4GB File Limit on Orchestral Templates????

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:15 pm

I'm also able to reproduce this. Last file size (when I cannot open it anymore) is 4.29GB.

Reported to Steinberg.
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