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MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:47 pm
by CUBASE6_USER
This can be a very powerful tool!

Two things would help enormously.

1. Play all scales using white keys only.
All you would need to know is C major or A minor Scale (it will give people so much more creativity) using familiar shapes.

2. Be able to record shifted scale on the track. (so if I am playing in C major but I have selected E minor) it should record E minor notes on the track if the option is selected.

Please do this one in cubase 10.....
btw 9.5 has some very useful features....

Re: !!!MIDI MODIFIERS PLAY ALL SCALES ON WHITE KEYS!!!

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:23 pm
by raino
You can do this now by using the Input Transformer to transpose what you are playing in C Major or A minor to any other key.

Re: !!!MIDI MODIFIERS PLAY ALL SCALES ON WHITE KEYS!!!

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:30 pm
by RichardTownsend
Hi, your point 2 can already be done using the chord track, more or less. There’s a video by Greg Ondo out there that explains how to do this, sorry I don’t have the link.

Re: !!!MIDI MODIFIERS PLAY ALL SCALES ON WHITE KEYS!!!

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:39 pm
by raino
RichardTownsend wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:30 pm
Hi, your point 2 can already be done using the chord track, more or less. There’s a video by Greg Ondo out there that explains how to do this, sorry I don’t have the link.
I haven't seen Greg's video so I may be offbase & missing something. But I assume it is about using the Chord Tab in the Track Inspector. If you turn Live Transform on it will indeed take the notes being played on the white keys and modify them so they conform to the notes of the Key and/or Chord shown in the Chord Track. But it doesn't do this by transposing, rather it just moves any out-of-key notes to the closest in-key notes. The OP is looking to actually transpose the notes.

For example if you play D-E-F in C Major and transposed it to G Major the notes would be A-B-C. But if you used Live Transform to make the notes conform to G Major you'd end up with D-E-F#.

That said Live Transform can be great fun. Just slap at your keyboard and all the notes will be in key.

Re: !!!MIDI MODIFIERS PLAY ALL SCALES ON WHITE KEYS!!!

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:55 am
by CUBASE6_USER
I am confused, live transform follows the chords, you would have to have chord track enabled and chords defined to even do that.

I was talking about midi input transformation based on scale selection, where all the white keys can be used to play any scale (in sequence no delays or gaps like the midi plugin Midi Modifiers). Kinda like how NI Komplete Kontrol keyboard. Just integrated in Cubase 10 Pro as a midi plugin or a track feature.


kinda like the easy mode on NI Komplete Kontrol MIDI keyboard....

Re: !!!MIDI MODIFIERS PLAY ALL SCALES ON WHITE KEYS!!!

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:12 am
by raino
CUBASE6_USER wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:55 am
I am confused, live transform follows the chords, you would have to have chord track enabled and chords defined to even do that.

I was talking about midi input transformation based on scale selection, where all the white keys can be used to play any scale (in sequence no delays or gaps like the midi plugin Midi Modifiers). Kinda like how NI Komplete Kontrol keyboard. Just integrated in Cubase 10 Pro as a midi plugin or a track feature.


kinda like the easy mode on NI Komplete Kontrol MIDI keyboard....
Yeah, Live Transform was a detour introduced into the discussion. FYI, you can set it to just use the scale & not chords.

Use the Input Transformer to do what you requested in your OP.

Alternatively you can use the Transpose in the Track Inspector's MIDI Modifiers tab. However this only affects the playback - so the MIDI Part will record the notes in C Major, but play them back transposed (even while initially recording). The Transformer on the other hand will let you record the transposed notes.

And just for completeness - you can also select an existing MIDI Part and transpose its playback via the info line.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:09 pm
by CUBASE6_USER
I know how chord track can be followed by an instrument or midi track, I am asking for enhancement of midi modifier in cubase that already has scale and scale note selection, all I am requesting is 2 new things added to it.

1. A way to map all selectable scales, to be mapped, to all white keys, example ... I want to play D# harmonic minor, I should be able to map all the keys to the white keys in sequence so there are no blank or repeat notes. I am sure, if Steinberg is listening, they should be able to do this fairly easily.

2. Able to print these notes to the track, so the play back engine knows that the notes that are being played don't need to be remapped (this can also be an offline process) does not have to be real-time.


example I gave is the NI Keyboard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMIIAWQirIE

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:45 pm
by -steve-
You can indeed to do it with the Input Transformer.

In module 1 set the notes (value 1:equal:<note name/number>) that need to be transposed in the Filter pane.
Set their transpositions in the Action pane. (Value 1:Subtract:<value to transpose>)
Be sure to set all the booleans on the right to OR. Then activate the module.

In module 2 filter target is equal:note, action target is Value 1:subtract (or add) what you need to get the transposition you need. This transposes the all the pitches together.

Let's say you want to set up a harmonic minor scale. Put the notes needing transposition in the Filter pane, and put the value by which they will be transposed in the action pane.

See example.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:20 pm
by raino
CUBASE6_USER wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:09 pm
1. A way to map all selectable scales, to be mapped, to all white keys, example ... I want to play D# harmonic minor, I should be able to map all the keys to the white keys in sequence so there are no blank or repeat notes. I am sure, if Steinberg is listening, they should be able to do this fairly easily.

2. Able to print these notes to the track, so the play back engine knows that the notes that are being played don't need to be remapped (this can also be an offline process) does not have to be real-time.
You

Can

Do

This

Now

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:35 pm
by CUBASE6_USER
it does not work....

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:00 pm
by -steve-
I works perfectly. I rephrased my post above, hopefully it's easier to understand, but the pic is clear. I didn't take a pic of the second module, since there's only one entry.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:10 am
by CUBASE6_USER
-steve- wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:45 pm
You can indeed to do it with the Input Transformer.

In module 1 set the notes (value 1:equal:<note name/number>) that need to be transposed in the Filter pane.
Set their transpositions in the Action pane. (Value 1:Subtract:<value to transpose>)
Be sure to set all the booleans on the right to OR. Then activate the module.

In module 2 filter target is equal:note, action target is Value 1:subtract (or add) what you need to get the transposition you need. This transposes the all the pitches together.

Let's say you want to set up a harmonic minor scale. Put the notes needing transposition in the Filter pane, and put the value by which they will be transposed in the action pane.

See example.
Yes this I understand, but it would be nice to just select a scale and click a checkbox that says map to white keys. 😀

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:13 am
by CUBASE6_USER
Creativity requires immediate and friendly simplicity.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:54 am
by -steve-
CUBASE6_USER wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:13 am
Creativity requires immediate and friendly simplicity.
I disagree. Creativity requires inventiveness, hard work, discipline, patience, and knowing oneself. Immediate gratification is the enemy of creativity.

How many different modes do you need? I propose five minutes work maximum per scale, probably less. Then, forever, you have the feature that you are willing to wait a couple years for by asking for it in a software forum, and you get it now, tonight without waiting, and you can customize it the way you want.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:52 am
by CUBASE6_USER
-steve- wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:54 am
CUBASE6_USER wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:13 am
Creativity requires immediate and friendly simplicity.
I disagree. Creativity requires inventiveness, hard work, discipline, patience, and knowing oneself. Immediate gratification is the enemy of creativity.

How many different modes do you need? I propose five minutes work maximum per scale, probably less. Then, forever, you have the feature that you are willing to wait a couple years for by asking for it in a software forum, and you get it now, tonight without waiting, and you can customize it the way you want.
When inspiration strikes, one needs simplicity, to dive into the unknown. 🎧 ;)
Hard work is skill, creative is the collective... one can lose inspiration messing with menus and nobs.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:55 am
by CUBASE6_USER
-steve- wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:54 am
CUBASE6_USER wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:13 am
Creativity requires immediate and friendly simplicity.
I disagree. Creativity requires inventiveness, hard work, discipline, patience, and knowing oneself. Immediate gratification is the enemy of creativity.

How many different modes do you need? I propose five minutes work maximum per scale, probably less. Then, forever, you have the feature that you are willing to wait a couple years for by asking for it in a software forum, and you get it now, tonight without waiting, and you can customize it the way you want.
But I will try your advice in using the input transform 👍

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:35 pm
by CUBASE6_USER
-steve- wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:45 pm
You can indeed to do it with the Input Transformer.

In module 1 set the notes (value 1:equal:<note name/number>) that need to be transposed in the Filter pane.
Set their transpositions in the Action pane. (Value 1:Subtract:<value to transpose>)
Be sure to set all the booleans on the right to OR. Then activate the module.

In module 2 filter target is equal:note, action target is Value 1:subtract (or add) what you need to get the transposition you need. This transposes the all the pitches together.

Let's say you want to set up a harmonic minor scale. Put the notes needing transposition in the Filter pane, and put the value by which they will be transposed in the action pane.

See example.
Hi Steve,
I programed one octave, is there a way to apply it to the whole 88 key keyboard ?
Seems really tedious to do one key at a time.

Amad M.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:32 am
by omniphonix
Why go through all that trouble with the Input Transformer? If you load "MIDI Modifiers" as a MIDI Insert plugin, you can set the scale at the bottom and it will transform all notes you play into that scale. They have every crazy kind of scale you can think of, just pick one, set the root, and play!

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:09 am
by raino
omniphonix wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:32 am
Why go through all that trouble with the Input Transformer? If you load "MIDI Modifiers" as a MIDI Insert plugin, you can set the scale at the bottom and it will transform all notes you play into that scale. They have every crazy kind of scale you can think of, just pick one, set the root, and play!
That won't do what the OP wants. It will convert any note played on the keyboard into the closest note in the new scale. But that's different than transposing to the new scale. If you set the MIDI Modifier to A Major and on the keyboard play C-D-E, it will come out as C#-D-E. But if you transpose to A Major you'd end up with A-B-C#.

Also the modifier only affects playback. If you record those notes they'll still be C-D-E in the MIDI Part.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:20 am
by -steve-
CUBASE6_USER wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:35 pm
is there a way to apply it to the whole 88 key keyboard ?
Seems really tedious to do one key at a time.

Amad M.
You only have to enter the notes that need to be transposed, not every single note. Use the graphic I uploaded as a guide.That is for four octaves if I remember correctly.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:14 pm
by CUBASE6_USER
omniphonix wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:32 am
Why go through all that trouble with the Input Transformer? If you load "MIDI Modifiers" as a MIDI Insert plugin, you can set the scale at the bottom and it will transform all notes you play into that scale. They have every crazy kind of scale you can think of, just pick one, set the root, and play!
That is what I was requesting in the new version of cubase 10 or an update to cubase 9.5 thus posting in "Feature Requests and Suggestions" ...
yeah that would be the best place to put an option for map to white keys.
kinda like the NI keyboard does. Where C becomes the root of any scale you select.
look at this video I think it is a very powerful tool....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMIIAWQirIE

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:29 am
by omniphonix
CUBASE6_USER wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:14 pm
That is what I was requesting in the new version of cubase 10 or an update to cubase 9.5 thus posting in "Feature Requests and Suggestions" ...
yeah that would be the best place to put an option for map to white keys.
kinda like the NI keyboard does. Where C becomes the root of any scale you select.
look at this video I think it is a very powerful tool....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMIIAWQirIE
That wasn't a suggestion, you can do that already since like version 7 or something. Insert MIDI Modifiers as a MIDI Insert (instead of using the one built into the inspector) an you will get a scale correction area.

MIDI_Mod.JPG
(20.04 KiB) Not downloaded yet

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:20 am
by raino
omniphonix wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:29 am
CUBASE6_USER wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:14 pm
That is what I was requesting in the new version of cubase 10 or an update to cubase 9.5 thus posting in "Feature Requests and Suggestions" ...
yeah that would be the best place to put an option for map to white keys.
kinda like the NI keyboard does. Where C becomes the root of any scale you select.
look at this video I think it is a very powerful tool....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMIIAWQirIE
That wasn't a suggestion, you can do that already since like version 7 or something. Insert MIDI Modifiers as a MIDI Insert (instead of using the one built into the inspector) an you will get a scale correction area.


MIDI_Mod.JPG
Again this does not do what is requested in the post you are quoting here. When you use this in MIDI Modifiers it will not use the C key on the controller as the root of the scale you set. It just moves any note that is not in the new scale to the closest note in the new scale. This is different than the request which is to transpose so you can use the same fingering as C Major/A minor for a different scale. See my more detailed explanation above.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:18 pm
by NoMad92
If you are not against 3rd party... Melodic Flow is a great plug-in.

Re: MIDI modifiers to play all scales on white keys

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:30 pm
by omniphonix
raino wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:20 am
Again this does not do what is requested in the post you are quoting here. When you use this in MIDI Modifiers it will not use the C key on the controller as the root of the scale you set. It just moves any note that is not in the new scale to the closest note in the new scale. This is different than the request which is to transpose so you can use the same fingering as C Major/A minor for a different scale. See my more detailed explanation above.
Would it not work to just set C major or A minor then add a transpose value?