Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

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strummer
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by strummer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:31 pm

dgrm44 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:42 pm
Thanks for the suggestion, but I need to hear the vst plugin while I track the guitars ,then bounce it down to another audio track (which will include the vst guitar effect so its wet, not a dry track) and disable the vst plugin, thus regaining CPU as I track my guitars and midi virtual instruments. I hope that makes sense.
Yep makes sense, but that is exactly what happens if you do it the way I suggest (if you enable monitoring of the track recording the wet input). You will record a wet track and a dry track without any more work, and regardless of the amount of tracks you record there will only be one instance of the vst amp modeling running:) And you have the dry tracks to reamp or whatever if you later decide to change settings om the modeling.
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by dgrm44 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:35 pm

The problem is I need to record say 12 guitars and I need to hear the wet playback of each new track as I record. So we are back to square one as in needing to bounce the vst wet track and have it available to hear as we also monitor new guitar tracks.

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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by strummer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:41 pm

dgrm44 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:35 pm
The problem is I need to record say 12 guitars and I need to hear the wet playback of each new track as I record. So we are back to square one as in needing to bounce the vst wet track and have it available to hear as we also monitor new guitar tracks.
No, as the modeling (in my example PodFarm) is on the input channel wet, the track recorded from that input will have your guitar sound (you will hear it when you monitor that input channel) , and it will be recorded like that, so no need yo bounce at all. I feel like we're not really connecting, but I hope I've understood your needs, because then my solution is both simple and quick.
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by dgrm44 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:54 pm

So after I record the first guitar, what about the second guitar and third? How do I hear the previous guitars with the vst plugin while recording the new guitar tracks?

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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by strummer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:03 pm

dgrm44 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:54 pm
So after I record the first guitar, what about the second guitar and third? How do I hear the previous guitars with the vst plugin while recording the new guitar tracks?
you dont need to hear them with the plugin, because when the plugin is put on the input channel it records with the plugin. The modeling takes place before your playing reaches the tape, so to say:) Think of it this way: if you put it on an input channel, it's just like recording your amp, and you run a DI patched in before the amp to record a dry signal just in case.
So when you have recorded a guitar part, just mute the dry track and disable monitoring for the track you recorded, then put up another pair of tracks 8one wet, one dry) and monitor the wet one. repeat until you have all the guitars you need. Then, when you dont need low latency anymore you can use the dry tracks if you want to change your sounds, or if you are still happy with hte wet sound you recorded with you can just continue to use the wet ones.
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by dgrm44 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:41 pm

You are missing my point....I need to hear the previous recorded guitar tracks WITH the amp modeling. Thus the need to bounce them so that I have a track printed WITH the guitar amp sound and I can reference it while recording the new guitar tracks.

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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by strummer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:52 pm

No you are missing my point: once you have recorded a track you just play it back, because it is recorded with the modeling. Its not possible to hear it WITHOUT the modeling, thus the possible need for the dry channel too. Why not set up a very simple project and try it out? I think, from your description, that this is more or less perfect for your needs, and it is much faster than anything else, because there is NO NEED to RIP or bounce at all, and once you have a guitar thrack it won't use any more processing power than playing back any track without inserts on it.
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by dgrm44 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:12 pm

I went back to your earlier post, I think I understand now what you are suggesting. How did you setup the Wet Git input?

One of the issues is you would need this Group/Track setup for each guitar sound you wanted to record and be able to go back to and manipulate during mixing. A lot more steps and complexity compared to other DAWs.
Last edited by dgrm44 on Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by strummer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:22 pm

dgrm44 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:12 pm
I went back to your earlier post, I think I understand now what you are suggesting. I would need to try this out and see how it works. It still seems a bit convoluted compared to other DAWS.
Please do, and let me know how it went, good luck!
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by dgrm44 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:23 pm

How did you setup the Wet Git Input?

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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by strummer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:27 pm

In the audio connections setup box you just add another input bus, make it mono and select the physical input you want to that bus too. In my example it is a simple UR22 which normally has a stereo input and output, so i just add a mono bus called wet and assign the left input to that one too. Now you have two software inputs that are connected to the same physical input, and once you have created a track to record you choose wet as input, then go to the input channel in the mixer view (F3) and add the modeling vst as an insert there.
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by dgrm44 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:38 pm

So you are saying I have to do this for every guitar sound that I want to record in the project? Lets say I have 8 guitar amp models that I plan to use? I want to tweak them later while mixing after recording.

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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by strummer » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:48 am

dgrm44 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:38 pm
So you are saying I have to do this for every guitar sound that I want to record in the project? Lets say I have 8 guitar amp models that I plan to use? I want to tweak them later while mixing after recording.
Yes, just like you have to do when using rip or whstever "bounce", the big difference is that when recording it is much faster, and instead of having to to rip or bounce in the middle of your creative process you will do the amp setups twice.
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by dgrm44 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:17 pm

Ok, did a test and there are issues with the monitoring since I am trying to record to stereo track from a mono bus. I need the wet target audio to be stereo as the output from the plugin is stereo. Also this workflow in Cubase has more steps and complexity than just using one track and after recording routing it to a second track.

When you are cranking through a creative session of tracking guitars you want to get your ideas recorded as fast as possible with minimal setup. I appreciate your time and suggestion, but for VST amp modelers, I will stick with another DAW during the tracking phase.

I hope Cubase updates their internal mixer to match current offerings as they have some other nice features that I like a lot.
Last edited by dgrm44 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by strummer » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:01 pm

dgrm44 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:17 pm
Ok, did a test and there are issues with the monitoring since I am trying to record to stereo track from a mono bus. I need the wet target audio to be stereo as the output from the plugin is stereo. Also this workflow in Cubase has more steps and complexity than just using one track and after recording routing it to a second track.

When you are cranking through a creative session of tracking guitars you want to get your ideas recorded as fast as possible with minimal setup.I appreciate your time and suggestion, but for VST amp modelers, I will stick with another DAW during the tracking phase.

I hope Cubase updates their internal mixer to match current offerings as they have some other nice features that I like a lot.
Fair enough:)
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by babaorum » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:12 am

It seems like you love complicate all you do ...
You can use freeze of tracks if you want to save CPU because amp sim are very consuming for CPU (especially Guitar Rig I experimented).
When you use RIP it should be without any artefacts, if it is so there is a problem somewhere into your mobo, maybe you have a PC which is not as enough powerful.
I have more risks to have artefacts in real time recording than in RIP. Do you have good parameter in ASIO Guard ? do you have a good value of latency when you want to render your tracks ? (you have to increase the latency when you render else you can have problems).
Everybody gave you plenty of solution but it seems like you stay in your certitudes without take the time to keep advises ..
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by dgrm44 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:54 pm

babaorum wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:12 am
It seems like you love complicate all you do ...
I own multiple DAWs (Studio One, Reaper, Sonar, Ableton, Bitwig, Reason, Cubase) and have experience with Logic and Pro Tool 12.5. I have been recording for 20+ years. Each year I take time to evaluate DAWs and tools and learn about new technologies that can help me. Cubase has some nice things that I like (GUI, Multiple Mixers, Control Room, etc) but their mixer routing is behind newer offerings in the market (track to track routing is as fast and easy as I can find).

I would ask that you don't troll me on this thread as my intent was to learn when I started this discussion. I am not negative on Cubase but I am also not blind to differences between Cubase and other DAWs. Again, I am just here to learn. Thanks.

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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by strummer » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:57 pm

dgrm44 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:54 pm
babaorum wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:12 am
It seems like you love complicate all you do ...
I own multiple DAWs (Studio One, Reaper, Sonar, Ableton, Bitwig, Reason, Cubase) and have experience with Logic and Pro Tool 12.5. I have been recording for 20+ years. Each year I take time to evaluate DAWs and tools and learn about new technologies that can help me. Cubase has some nice things that I like (GUI, Multiple Mixers, Control Room, etc) but their mixer routing is behind newer offerings in the market (track to track routing is as fast and easy as I can find).

I would ask that you don't troll me on this thread as my intent was to learn when I started this discussion. I am not negative on Cubase but I am also not blind to differences between Cubase and other DAWs. Again, I am just here to learn. Thanks.
As I wrote earlier, fair enough:)
But, I will admit that your refusal to even try the suggested way to accomplish what you want done (render in place) gets to me too. I can understand that you have a certain workflow you like, but I fail to understand why anyone would want to have real time exporting when you can do rip.
I could perhaps see a benefit in routing a channel into another (would have been nice when we had too few vst slots), but not instead of rip:)
Yes I saw in an earlier post that you had bad experiences of some sort, but as you say yourself "learn about new technologies that can help", and most of the time Cubase gets better and better, so why don't you try rip in 2018?
Honestly, mostly it seems to me you just want to *witch* about a feature that does not exist in that particular way in Cubase, and you seem reluctant to try the DAW for what it is.
This is in no way trolling, simply asking you to be cool about all this.
I have been recording for quite a while too, but I learn new things every day, and any day now I'm going to learn about midi and VSTi:s, lol. Yeah, I'm slow, playing bass will do that to you;-)
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by dgrm44 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:53 pm

@strummer: I really appreciate your help and responses and have tried yours (and everyones) suggestions. So far none of them work for me as well as track to track routing does. I'm not saying that I am right and anyone else is wrong. I'm just saying that track to track is a great feature for me (and a lot of others also). If its not for you then great. My last response was to a post that seemed to be less helpful and more like a troll style post. I am willing to listen and try ideas, but also I will be honest with my experience and feedback. Thanks.

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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by strummer » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:14 pm

dgrm44 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:53 pm
@strummer: I really appreciate your help and responses and have tried yours (and everyones) suggestions. So far none of them work for me as well as track to track routing does. I'm not saying that I am right and anyone else is wrong. I'm just saying that track to track is a great feature for me (and a lot of others also). If its not for you then great. My last response was to a post that seemed to be less helpful and more like a troll style post. I am willing to listen and try ideas, but also I will be honest with my experience and feedback. Thanks.
Got it! So how about trying render in place?
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Re: Tracking VST Guitar Plugins

Post by babaorum » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:55 pm

Really you think I trolled ? :shock:
I'm sad to read that, if you read again my previous posts, all of them suggested a lot of solution for you ... ok I stop to try to help you because I think you , maybe you are a kind of troll , you told us you know about Pro Tools , Studio One etc ... but I have serious doubts you have learn each of these and if it's the case why you didn't stay on Studio One or Reaper ? I have Pro Tools 2018.7 as another DAW (all with License of course), I can to tell you that the routing is less intuitive than Cubase far less :!:
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