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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:57 pm
by silhouette
svenne you really do need to take the temperature down. If it is difficult to assimilate your disappointment, fine I get that. However the key to getting people to go with you is reasonable debate. The angry customer never makes a good impression upon the staff. It is also pointless being irritated by those who are liking this release, because there are as many different ideas about what would make Cubase perfect as there are customers. How can any development team satisfy that kind of diversity.

I am going to annoy you now I'm sure, by saying that I have not updated yet, as I have some important sessions over the weekend and do not want to be battling unknown issues. I do have some space next week to look into C9. Perhaps I'll be happy, perhaps I won't, but it will be me that decides based upon my own preferences and working methods.

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:04 pm
by silhouette
Svenne wrote: Let the rest of us who want to be able to go on using using Cubase continue with the discussion, without rants and insults.
Pot.....Kettle....Black?

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:15 pm
by fretthefret
J-S-Q wrote:
vinja wrote:My main complaint is the price.

$200 to upgrade from C8 to C9?

Wasn't the upgrade from C8 to 8.5 $50? Wouldn't the update price from C8 to C9 more fairly be $150?

This to me is a bummer as I'd actually like to upgrade, but I feel like I'm being punished for not automatically updating. It seems like a poor business decision and helps me understand the disdain other users are feeling.
I think they're trying to 'encourage' the users to update every time. :)
The updates seem well priced for the included features!
Not so expensive as to be painful and not so small as to hurt the future R&D at the company!

Besides that, I pay quite a bit more than $99 to Slate Digital for an annual plugin subscription not even mentioning the very high cost of the Waves plugin update plan !
So compared to other offerings in the market it is probably even slightly under priced, which as a customer my wallet and bank account can appreciate !

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:29 pm
by ZeroZero
Two positive things | want to say here. Yes this is the best Cubase ever, Why? Because even though the improvements are moderate (IMO) and incomplete, what has been done are improvements. It also remains stable.

Having started working in the new gui environment it does make sense and I am finding quicker ways of managing screens.
Z

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:40 pm
by greggybud
J-S-Q wrote:I think they're trying to 'encourage' the users to update every time. :)
Yes, a voluntary subscription. :D I think that is good.

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:59 pm
by J-S-Q
fretthefret wrote:
J-S-Q wrote:
vinja wrote:My main complaint is the price.

$200 to upgrade from C8 to C9?

Wasn't the upgrade from C8 to 8.5 $50? Wouldn't the update price from C8 to C9 more fairly be $150?

This to me is a bummer as I'd actually like to upgrade, but I feel like I'm being punished for not automatically updating. It seems like a poor business decision and helps me understand the disdain other users are feeling.
I think they're trying to 'encourage' the users to update every time. :)
The updates seem well priced for the included features!
Not so expensive as to be painful and not so small as to hurt the future R&D at the company!

Besides that, I pay quite a bit more than $99 to Slate Digital for an annual plugin subscription not even mentioning the very high cost of the Waves plugin update plan !
So compared to other offerings in the market it is probably even slightly under priced, which as a customer my wallet and bank account can appreciate !
Yes, I think it's very reasonably priced. Certainly for a professional person who uses Cubase as their main tool to earn a living, $99 a year doesn't even register on the scale. Of course that doesn't apply to lots of people.

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:34 pm
by jimknopf
Svenne wrote:Some people never learn. Not even if a mountain is dropped on them. The discussion with will lead nowhere. Let the rest of us who want to be able to go on using using Cubase continue with the discussion, without rants and insults.
Well, I belong to the people who would find it slightly out of place to even consider learning from people, who behave ill-tempered, pretentious and offending to a ridiculous degree throughout a thread, while imagining "a mountain dropping on me" (frankly, that one never arrived here), and at the same time calling for a discussion "without rants and insults". That sounds a bit like some spoilt child calling for others of that kind "to get a mature talk among adults". :)

I'm extremely happy with Cubase 9 after two days of use. I never had a better workflow with any Cubase version, ever, while getting used to the new UI. As a PC user I could never compare Logic, but what I said is also true regarding some other PC DAWs I tried over the years.

I can't confirm the rants about the lower zone "on notebooks" (what a silly generalisation that would be) one bit. The exact opposite is true for me: it's the first time I got a smooth workflow on my music notebook as well, with the lower zone being really useful. Could it be, that the different display sizes of notebooks in use simply play a decisive role for different experiences? My music notebook has a 17'' display. I guess I could even profit on a 15'' screen with enough resolution. And I don't regard notebooks with ultra small screens as well suited for fullsize DAW recording at all.

In fact I like and use all the new features on board. Do I see room for improvement? Always! Endless! But over the years I got accustomed a bit to a life in the real world of software use: with all the up- and downsides I meet all day long, all year long. No perfect world? Well, I for one know about a zillion definitely more important things to fix in this world, before a DAW upgrade even comes in sight!!!

I agree that the timewarp in the sampler track could and should definitely be of higher quality, and some UI features could be better there as well. BUT: to me it's just been fun using the new feature, within it's existing boundadaries: I can do a lot with that in everyday recording! THAT's what I'm really missing from some in this thread: even trying to make some good everyday use of the new features, before starting with the desiderata right away.

What I DO understand is frustration after lots of qualified feedback, like the concerns about the extensive efforts to gather user requests in meaningful ways, then ending up in the final result Steinberg opted for, with their limited resources, and a very limited list of essential updates. The more you care as user and try to give useful input, the more diasppointed you are if the resulting list has become that short. Still it should be noted, that for people like me the update is worth every buck, as far as I can say after two days of use - while not denying lots of useful stuff still to be done, and probably hitting some old and new walls anytime soon. ;)

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:50 pm
by vinja
J-S-Q wrote:
vinja wrote:My main complaint is the price.

$200 to upgrade from C8 to C9?

Wasn't the upgrade from C8 to 8.5 $50? Wouldn't the update price from C8 to C9 more fairly be $150?

This to me is a bummer as I'd actually like to upgrade, but I feel like I'm being punished for not automatically updating. It seems like a poor business decision and helps me understand the disdain other users are feeling.
I think they're trying to 'encourage' the users to update every time. :)
...and they really encourage you to wait 5 versions because the jump from 4>9 is only an additional $100. ;)

If they advertised their upgrade pricing structure as such I might have updated but I didn't really see anything I wanted that bad about 8.5. Didn't know there would be a surcharge for that. Kind of a bummer because I dig the sampler and I only use one screen, but i'll sit this one out and see what it costs to get to future versions.

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:47 am
by kamalski
ZeroZero wrote:Long time user. I was really disappointed. I was not expecting too much but I got less than that. When it boils down to it these are the features as I see them

1] Lower Zone: Can't actually see the faders in enough detail on a laptop (even when stretched), If you do this you can't see hardly anything in the project window which defeats the point here. If you really wanted a similar arrangment in C8, then it's easy to set up. On my dual 49" monitor system its superfluous too I prefer the mixer free. What we need is dockable windows - this is obvious and has been asked for since sx3.
>>depends on your style if you consider this a worthwhile feature. basically a Studio One rip off

2] Mixer undos. No saving of A and B comparisons, just the history, which is more cumbersome.
>>generally GREAT! but not something essential as multi track warp editing
3] Sampler tracks - a toy really, no ability to split the keyboard or layer- these very basic facilities missing.
4] EQ is this better than the Voxengo? Possibly...
>>who needs ANOTHER EQ??????

5] Plugin tweaks - are plugin tweaks, most pros use their own plugins.
6] Side Chaining - has been possible at least since C5.
7] Production grooves - free samples are everywhere. Ok we have some more.
8] Multiple Marker tracks - very welcome.
9] Smaller Racks - welcome.
10] Transport improvements - very welcome.
MIDI improvements - there are none that I can find, hopefully I am wrong?

The color scheme thing is simply awful it cannot be called an improvement, its dark and clashy. The posts here about it here are about how to turn it off.

MIDI is half of a DAW. As a composer I was hoping for at least improved expression maps - why on earth was this not ported from Dorico, which already has a slicker expression map interface?

Many of the behind the scenes minor gui's can be improved. Take the preferences or VST connections dialogues - why can't you see if you have loaded your presets? You load a pref, the next time you look there is a blank box. The saving of preferences is also cumbersome and must be done blindly without proper visual feedback. Why is this just left this way over many generations?

>>YES! couldn't agree more!workflow is in the detail!!
the most disappointing thing is that there is still not a way to warp across multiple tracks(other than quantizing everything. very crude!)! this is such an important thing for anyone working with drum recording. but it seems that Steinberg prefers to focus on the kids who are desperate for just "dropping things" into the DAW and go wow!
Again IMHO for a professional user new GUI features are often counterproductive as it requires to relearn stuff that is already hardwired in the brain. I don't need new colors, locations, symbols and gadgets. i need clear functionality that is congruent with previous concepts.
Vari Audio is still only usable for the crudest manipulations. i can not even edit hi violin notes as vari audio doesn't reach the high notes of that instrument. So far the most elegant and effective solution is to be found in Studio One's Melodyne integration.
Cubase is such an amazingly capable DAW but it also shows such shortcomings in some areas that do not match the ability that the designers are apparently capable of.

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:37 am
by Razzia
Honestly I wasn't all that wowed by the overview of what was added in C9, but I bought the update regardless because I wanted the mixer history, and I could see the usefulness of the lower zone, even if I kind of hated the mixer in Studio One (note - people are complaining about everything in the LZ mix console not being on one panel. I think it's ideal how it is. Not cramped like S1). After working in C9 for a couple of hours I am really pleasantly surprised by the way the new improvements and the new UI work together to improve the overall experience. I'm enjoying the hell out of working in the new Cubase, and honestly I feel a little bad for the Steinberg folks who put in all sorts of time and effort making and releasing this thing and are greeted by this angry mob on the forums. Of course that's the nature of the forums... You have maybe 10-20% people who are just here to BS and see what everyone's saying about it, and 80% people who are upset and here to complain. And of course most of the happy users are nowhere near this forum.

Anyway, that's my .02. If you want to voice an objection to it feel free to take a few deep breaths and... not

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:22 am
by kamalski
thanks Razzia for reminding of a positive attitude and a civil discussion.
unfortunately the nature of a forum like this is to point out the flaws, rather than rave about the positives.
Cubase IS an amazing workstation all things considered. my personal frustration comes in when i think of the, by now, thousands of dollars i payed in updates (since its inception on Commodore64!) and still run into limitations in Cubase that other software has been able to overcome years ago.
And thank you to all the people who have to deal with the comments in the forums and have to separate the crap from the pearls.

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:09 am
by Razzia
kamalski wrote:thanks Razzia for reminding of a positive attitude and a civil discussion.
my personal frustration comes in when i think of the, by now, thousands of dollars i payed in updates (since its inception on Commodore64!) and still run into limitations in Cubase that other software has been able to overcome years ago.
Yeah, I feel for you there. And there's definitely some stuff in there that's archaic, but that's every DAW. FL studio didn't have timestretching until like last month. Ableton Live still doesn't really have audio editing, loop record, or comping. Last time I used Samplitude (around the release of Pro X2 I believe) only like 4 mixer slots were visible, and the rest you had to dive into a crappy black-on-white menu to see and reorder with an arrow button.

Believe me, there are things about it that I dislike intensely. But I've been through my share of DAWs by now. I'm fairly sure it doesn't get much better than this, if any.



Unrelated to the above response, but not worth its own comment: I'm really liking the mixer history. At first I wasn't so sure about having mixer undo separate from the general undo history, seeing as it's not all as simple as CTRL Z. But I gotta say, it's really nice to see everything laid out and being able to go "right... that's where I *knuf* it up... click"

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:33 am
by whitealbum
ctothel wrote:Unlimited inserts please! This is getting silly.
+1
If a re-structuring of the signal path is a high prio, so please work on unlimited sends as well.

btw, a new more detail survey is needed in my opinion (like the last survey)
The survey stated above is too general!

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:48 pm
by Minimalist
I agree with a lot of this. What I really wanted to see was improvements for long neglected parts of Cubase such as the key shortcuts, macros, Logical Editor and MIDI effects. So many new audio effects and none for midi. By now we should have effects that combine midi and audio like the innovative "Arpology" instrument. For a time I was making long macros in Cubase but I found that after 64 tedious steps, the macro would simply cease to function. Why? Someone knows and I chalk this up to bad engineering.
ZeroZero wrote:Long time user. I was really disappointed. I was not expecting too much but I got less than that. When it boils down to it these are the features as I see them

1] Lower Zone: Can't actually see the faders in enough detail on a laptop (even when stretched), If you do this you can't see hardly anything in the project window which defeats the point here. If you really wanted a similar arrangment in C8, then it's easy to set up. On my dual 49" monitor system its superfluous too I prefer the mixer free. What we need is dockable windows - this is obvious and has been asked for since sx3.

2] Mixer undos. No saving of A and B comparisons, just the history, which is more cumbersome.

3] Sampler tracks - a toy really, no ability to split the keyboard or layer- these very basic facilities missing.

4] EQ is this better than the Voxengo? Possibly...

5] Plugin tweaks - are plugin tweaks, most pros use their own plugins.

6] Side Chaining - has been possible at least since C5.

7] Production grooves - free samples are everywhere. Ok we have some more.

8] Multiple Marker tracks - very welcome.

9] Smaller Racks - welcome.

10] Transport improvements - very welcome.



MIDI improvements - there are none that I can find, hopefully I am wrong?

The color scheme thing is simply awful it cannot be called an improvement, its dark and clashy. The posts here about it here are about how to turn it off.

MIDI is half of a DAW. As a composer I was hoping for at least improved expression maps - why on earth was this not ported from Dorico, which already has a slicker expression map interface?

Many of the behind the scenes minor gui's can be improved. Take the preferences or VST connections dialogues - why can't you see if you have loaded your presets? You load a pref, the next time you look there is a blank box. The saving of preferences is also cumbersome and must be done blindly without proper visual feedback. Why is this just left this way over many generations?

No sign of Dorico lite? Well hopefully this will be soon.


Improvements in the way Cubase handles RAM. So much of the time 90% of header samples loaded into RAM are simply superfluous - unnecessarily pushing the daw. When a track is not being edited/recorded most of the samples are not required.

I love Cubase, but it worries me that this can be released as 'major' update, its a minor update.

Please, look after your users, I would hate to see Cubase's reputation descend. All over the web, users are not happy with this release, face up to this fact, put together some proper improvements and release them as a free update soon, or face loosing your reputation for major innovations.

Z

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:12 am
by jalusblu
After reading a lot of the comments I was cautious about installing Cubase Pro 9 :o
It went very smoothly - and as far as I can tell the GUI is better - easier on the eyes, especially reading inserts in the mixer.
I have always found Cubase to be a very subtle and flexible programme and continue to enjoy learning how to integrate its new aspects into my workflow.
:)

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:55 am
by fretthefret
Razzia wrote:Honestly I wasn't all that wowed by the overview of what was added in C9, but I bought the update regardless because I wanted the mixer history, and I could see the usefulness of the lower zone, even if I kind of hated the mixer in Studio One (note - people are complaining about everything in the LZ mix console not being on one panel. I think it's ideal how it is. Not cramped like S1). After working in C9 for a couple of hours I am really pleasantly surprised by the way the new improvements and the new UI work together to improve the overall experience. I'm enjoying the hell out of working in the new Cubase, and honestly I feel a little bad for the Steinberg folks who put in all sorts of time and effort making and releasing this thing and are greeted by this angry mob on the forums. Of course that's the nature of the forums... You have maybe 10-20% people who are just here to BS and see what everyone's saying about it, and 80% people who are upset and here to complain. And of course most of the happy users are nowhere near this forum.

Anyway, that's my .02. If you want to voice an objection to it feel free to take a few deep breaths and... not

Raz,

also keep in mind that these days there are MANY marketing and PR firms that are paid large sums to troll competing products and do nothing more than b-itch and complain about them. While I'm not saying that is happening here at all, always keep it mind whenever reading any comments on forums, websites or other social media platforms, as both the positive and the negative that you read may be completely contrived for any product!

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:37 pm
by sasha-che
Vinylizor wrote:The best thing about this update by far (and you don't even mention it as a feature) is that those damn hover boxes have been binned. (I could have put some sort of emoji here but its not particularly funny)
Oh really? Do you mean those pesky rectangles popping up at the screen corners? If so, that sounds like a significant interface improvement!

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:42 pm
by J-S-Q
sasha-che wrote:
Vinylizor wrote:The best thing about this update by far (and you don't even mention it as a feature) is that those damn hover boxes have been binned. (I could have put some sort of emoji here but its not particularly funny)
Oh really? Do you mean those pesky rectangles popping up at the screen corners? If so, that sounds like a significant interface improvement!
Yes. Very pleased to see them gone!

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:14 pm
by freejay
I'd really like to discuss some design decisions the Cubase team made in the last versions as well as bring some improvement ideas and the like, but this topic seems to be flooded with angry people so I will wait for a more fitting "moment".

Just one remark: I am very happy with the new version and was already playing for hours with Sampler Track and Instrument Audio Sidechaining: Great playground!

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:25 am
by S4410
My first impressions are positive.I like the improved workflow in the main project window, the mixConsole history is welcomed of course,usb hotplug obvious... Sampler i don't know if i ll use much,i had no problems with sentinel (maybe i was lucky?),Frequency is ok but have tons of plugins anyway. Owing Cubase, Wavelab and Dorico, i like the overall Steinberg vision and innovative approach and support it through the years. I 've never been rewarded for that loyalty though, and i must admit that 99 euros for this update is expensive

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:07 am
by indiescore
Survey is two questions have you upgraded and will you......guys that's deep. I think this update is fine, its more laser focused than others and not bloated with new VST instruments. I applaud the stability gains. Plug and play USB is a good feature. CPU efficiency, mum is the word? But, we still have track visibilty that doesn't work and we need video solution, video export ( a big request)..,,,please.

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:10 am
by Raphie
What's the current issue with track vissibility? I'm not aware?

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:28 pm
by Steve Helstrip
Installed. Hugely disappointed. I've disabled the Lower Zone - it's useless in its current format. Sampler track has promise, but has crashed the 3 times that I have tried to use it: upon import audio (twice), and crashed when I hit the reverse button. Groove Agent works far better for me.

Wanted bug fixes and got none that I can see after 3 days use.

More like Cubase 'pro' 8.6.

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:34 pm
by Jem-55
Well I'm happy. It works so much better than 8.5. I suspect dropping 32bit support has made it quicker and stable. Well done Steinberg for biting the bullet on that one and copping the inevitable flack.

New design features all good although I would expect improvements in the Sampler. Good beginning though.

Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:36 pm
by noiseboyuk
Jem-55 wrote:Well I'm happy. It works so much better than 8.5. I suspect dropping 32bit support has made it quicker and stable..
Out of interest - if someone never was using any 32 bit plugins in 8.5, is there are possibility that 9 is more stable for having dropped 32 bit support?