Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post general topics related to Cubase Pro 9, Cubase Artist 9 and Cubase Elements 9 here.
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Svenne
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by Svenne »

J-S-Q wrote:Can it be improved?
Obviously it can. I will post a proposition on how it could be repaired to useful state later. But the point is that there must be a stop to the practise of software developers to release inferior and damaged products with the hope that they may be fixed some time in the future.

We should all make our decisions on how a product work today, not hwe it might work some time in the future. Despute the fact that Cubase 9 has been met with massive criticism, Steinbeg has hardly recognised it. Much less given any indication of if and when the flawed features will be repaired.
J-S-Q wrote:In the situation you describe, you could scroll back through the history, copy the settings of a particular channel (or save the EQ settings etc), then bring the history forwards again and paste those settings back onto the channel. Now your channel is the same as it was 30 minutes ago but the rest of your mix adjustments are not lost. USELESS!
Yes, but first you need to find the settings in an endless list of thousands of entries. This would take a long time (possibly hours). It would be much faster to not bother with the undo feature, use your ears and just change the darn parameter(s). This would only take seconds.

USELESS! definitely!
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ZeroZero
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by ZeroZero »

Svenne wrote:
Vinylizor wrote:Out of all the great new features listed on Steinbergs site, only the mix console history could be considered appropriate for Cubase PRO.
Despite it being completely useless? Think about it. If you want to undo an action taken at the beginning of your mix session, you'll need to undo everything that you've done since that action as well! I essence abandoning your entire mix and waste hours of work!

Hardly a professionally implemented feature, if you ask me!
The way this was once put to me was, "Imagine a game of jenga, where in the middle of the game you want to take away the middle layer but keep the top layer". Technically I think it is a bit like this

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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by djw »

After getting MixConsole history, the request so many people had, you move the goalposts to undestructive history or else it's "unusable"?

It might just be me, but you do know there's other DAWs if you are this unhappy, right?
Last edited by djw on Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Svenne
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by Svenne »

ZeroZero wrote:The way this was once put to me was, "Imagine a game of jenga, where in the middle of the game you want to take away the middle layer but keep the top layer".
That's a very good analogy of how a proper undo feature should work. The Cubase implementation, on the other hand, forces you to throw away all the layers above the one you intend to remove! Not much of a game left, is there?
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by ZeroZero »

What I mean is the top layer depends on the middle layer (too) for it's sounds, take way the middle and the top changes - unwise IMO.
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Svenne
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by Svenne »

djw wrote:After getting MixConsole history, the most overly complained feature request for years, it still isn't enough right? It might just be me, but you do know there's other DAWs if you are this unhappy, right?
And why should I (and everyone else who is dissatisfied) be forced to abandon the DAW that we love and has spent decades learning how to use, just because we can't complain when the developer drops the ball. You may think that you do Steinberg a favour by defending them at all cost. You don't!

Just look at all the complaints on this board. What do you think would happen if all these people abandoned Cubase, and no new customers bought the software (after reading this board and the devastating magazine reviews, I'm sure will follow)?

By voicing our complaints, we are actually helping Steinberg making a better product (that continues winning awars) in the long run? Cubase 9 won't win any awards. Well, maybe for the worst upgrade in history.
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by djw »

Svenne wrote:...
I'm genuinely surprised when people want to stick with a product they say is unusable.

There will always be complaints on this board. The MixConsole undo is proof of that: even now it's added, it turns out it has to be more than what was asked for to satisfy the ones who were complaining. From the perspective of someone who never cared so much about this undo feature at all, it seems incredibly entitled.

If you want to help to improve Cubase by requesting features, then make a constructive post in the Feature requests sub-forum.

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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by Svenne »

djw wrote:
Svenne wrote:...
I'm genuinely surprised when people want to stick with a product they say is unusable.

There will always be complaints on this board. The MixConsole undo is proof of that: even now it's added, it turns out it has to be more than what was asked for to satisfy the ones who were complaining. From the perspective of someone who never cared so much about this undo feature at all, it seems incredibly entitled.

If you want to help to improve Cubase by requesting features, then make a constructive post in the Feature requests sub-forum.
Some people never learn. Not even if a mountain is dropped on them. The discussion with will lead nowhere. Let the rest of us who want to be able to go on using using Cubase continue with the discussion, without rants and insults.

By the way, the Feature Requests sub-forum is for requesting new features. Not for discussing badly implemented excising ones. Understand the difference?
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by J-S-Q »

Do the other few DAW's with mixer undo (Pro Tools, Sonar, Samplitude, Reaper, maybe some others?) operate in such a way that you can undo individual parameter changes without altering more recent mix changes?
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by djw »

Svenne wrote:By the way, the Feature Requests sub-forum is for requesting new features. Not for discussing badly implemented excising ones. Understand the difference?

Yay, semantics. I consider being able to disable seperate operations in the history a new feature since it's not a feature right now. But it doesn't even matter since the forum description covers this either way:
All feature requests and suggestions for upcoming releases of Cubase Pro 9, Cubase Artist 9 and Cubase Elements 9 can be posted here.

Svenne
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by Svenne »

djw wrote:
Svenne wrote:By the way, the Feature Requests sub-forum is for requesting new features. Not for discussing badly implemented excising ones. Understand the difference?

Yay, semantics. I consider being able to disable seperate operations in the history a new feature since it's not a feature right now. But it doesn't even matter since the forum description covers this either way:
All feature requests and suggestions for upcoming releases of Cubase Pro 9, Cubase Artist 9 and Cubase Elements 9 can be posted here.
Some never learn, it seems. What result do you think you will reach with this ranting. Making everyone shut up and not criticise Steinberg for their faulty products?
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by VinnieD »

Matthias Quellmann wrote:I am just browsing through the comments since my last post...
Svenne wrote:I'm very sad to be forced to say that the Cubase 9 upgrade will, most likely, go down as the worst upgrade in history.
Svenne wrote:What Steinberg has implemented is a useless toy
Svenne wrote:how can Steinberg release such a seriously bug-ridden feature as Plug-In Sentinel
Svenne wrote:Does any of them have any experience in the world of audio recording, what so ever. I must ask the question, because I can't see how anyone who has the least bit of knowledge how audio recording/mixing is done could let disasters like Sampler Tracks and MixConsole Undoes get past the alpha stage of development.
artcrime wrote:I'll say your development team are limited, there are other adjectives I prefer like stunted, or munted, or how about drunk.
The above quotes are not constructive critisism, but verbal abuse. If you cannot post anything constructive here, please refrain from posting at all, you are not helping your case at all. you should be glad you are not banned already...

I can also really post some real abusive stuff about all this whining, but i won't. I prefer to make music with an (albeit sligthly expensive) update of a great DAW.

Sound off!
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Timo
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by Timo »

The update is 99 bucks, mixer undo is perfectly done, lower zone will be useful for any mobile user or those with one large screen, sample track is perfect for EDM guys and quite useless for the rest of us, new eq, autopan and maximizer are really fine and as another option always welcome.

TBO I'm a bit tired of former ProTools users crying to make Cubase like ProTools in every respect. We got VCA in 8.0 although 7.x had linked groups perfectly working. Just because they lamented it missing in every second post in this forum. Now it's the smart tool they bemoan missing, next time it will be clip effects or the ugly gui of their former app. If they think the 99 bucks are not well spent, they could simply buy a ProTools subscription for 1200 bucks a year and get lost.

Cubase has strengths, things that make it unique and stellar, for example VariAudio - I'd prefer so much if this was developed further, using the zPlane algorithms instead of the standard ones, perhaps even with polyphonic possibilities. Variaudio hasn't changed at all since Cubase 5, although it's a real real time saver to have it directly in my DAW.

Please Steinberg, use the strengths of your software, make them shine and improve them. While the ProTools moaners save 2 minutes a day having their smart tool, they spend hours replacing their elastic pitch joke by syncing their stuff to melodyne. Every app has its great things and others that could be better, but I think it's time now to stop copying their stuff, but to invent the stuff avid will be failing to copy for years to come.

Just my 2 cents. And now pull my statement to pieces as you did with the 9.0 update since it came out. I like it.
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Svenne
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by Svenne »

VinnieD wrote:The above quotes are not constructive critisism, but verbal abuse.!
They are constructive criticisms, provided you resist the attempt to take them out of context.
VinnieD wrote:If you cannot post anything constructive here, please refrain from posting at all, you are not helping your case at all.
Good advice. I hope you take it yourself.
VinnieD wrote:I prefer to make music with an (albeit sligthly expensive) update of a great DAW.
So do I, but I (and most of us) needs a DAW with features that work correctly. If we don't voice our complaints, we never will. The complaints and grievances voiced here are about this particular update, not Cubase as a whole.
VinnieD wrote:Sound off!
Good call. Do that and let the grown-ups go on and try to make Cubase continue to be a great and usable DAW, by discussing the facts.
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by mackie1402 »

more insertslots

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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by Svenne »

Timo, you describe VariAudio unique and stellar. I agree that it's en excellent feature (but could, never the less, be improved. Particularly what pitch-shift algorithms we can use). However, it's far from unique. It's actually a "rip-off" (or should I say "homage", in order to not get ripped to pieces) of Melodyne.

Cubase has one major feature that's truly unique. The full Score editor. Lots of DAWs has score editors, but Cubase Pro is the only one that has a pro-quality score layout program built in.
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by florian360 »

Biggest wish for me are more insert slots! 6 are not enough for many of us
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by polgara »

love it, shame about the plug in (police)sentinal .i like the sampler triggering samples with midi guitar,fun.
please make it so plug in sentinal can be switched off if so desired .
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by ctothel »

florian360 wrote:Biggest wish for me are more insert slots! 6 are not enough for many of us

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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by keyxmusic »

One comment I have is the way they came up with the most requested feature list before this release doesn't seem right.

While it might be the case that those are the features people say they want the most from the survey, does it mean those are THE most requested feature? Hell no. Bezier curve has been requested since 2006 and unlimited inserts request have been aroud for even longer.

Several months before they released the survey, I also recalled a very long thread of producers wanting Bezier curve, and macro knobs to replace the ancient Quick Control, made it two of the most requested features in my opinion. However, after everyone's done requesting, the thread just got passed and I think developers might not have seen it at all.

My point is, Steinberg should have a more comprehensive way of collecting most requested feature. Sure, if they did the last update solely based on the survey results, I think they did a fantastic job. However, I think so many people including myself are moaning because many of the "real" most requested features never got addressed.

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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by Raphie »

+1 the tone of voice in this thread is ridiculous and disrespectful.
@Svenne Ever imagined that there are other users who are extremely satisfied with this update?
The sampler is perfect! Just perfect, as simple as it can be, not a bloated daw in daw like halion sonic or halion.
A huge win opposed to dropping samples on an audiotrack, or using an overfeatured 3rd PTY sampler, this sampler caters for what 99.99% of the users do when using samples, lay them on a keybed, in key and play.
Sentinel is perfect, developers need to step up their compliance game.
New gui and tabs, just perfect
Lost the suggestions, excellent
Better ASIO scaling, excellent
Small transport, awesome
USB hotplug, freaking awesome (PC)
FreqEQ, awesome, you would pay €199,00 with fabfilter, DMG, or Waves for this EQ
What's not to like?!?
One man's junk is another man's gold > respect that!

I couldn't care less about beziers or more inserts. I couldn't care less about new plugins I don't need.
So Just speak for yourself and STOP the "everyone" HYPERBOLE.
djw wrote:
Svenne wrote:...
I'm genuinely surprised when people want to stick with a product they say is unusable.

There will always be complaints on this board. The MixConsole undo is proof of that: even now it's added, it turns out it has to be more than what was asked for to satisfy the ones who were complaining. From the perspective of someone who never cared so much about this undo feature at all, it seems incredibly entitled.

If you want to help to improve Cubase by requesting features, then make a constructive post in the Feature requests sub-forum.
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by Laserkraft »

Raphie wrote:+1 the tone of voice in this thread is ridiculous and disrespectful.
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vinja
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by vinja »

My main complaint is the price.

$200 to upgrade from C8 to C9?

Wasn't the upgrade from C8 to 8.5 $50? Wouldn't the update price from C8 to C9 more fairly be $150?

This to me is a bummer as I'd actually like to upgrade, but I feel like I'm being punished for not automatically updating. It seems like a poor business decision and helps me understand the disdain other users are feeling.

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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by J-S-Q »

vinja wrote:My main complaint is the price.

$200 to upgrade from C8 to C9?

Wasn't the upgrade from C8 to 8.5 $50? Wouldn't the update price from C8 to C9 more fairly be $150?

This to me is a bummer as I'd actually like to upgrade, but I feel like I'm being punished for not automatically updating. It seems like a poor business decision and helps me understand the disdain other users are feeling.
I think they're trying to 'encourage' the users to update every time. :)
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Re: Cubase 9 - Customer feedback survey

Post by TheMaestro »

Svenne wrote: Cubase has one major feature that's truly unique. The full Score editor. Lots of DAWs has score editors, but Cubase Pro is the only one that has a pro-quality score layout program built in.
This sentence should be placed in the Steinberg site's homepage. The majority of users do not know this.


@svenne
I hear you. I find this update disappointing because there's no major new feature.
Personally none of the new features would be of any use for me :
I don't need a simple sampler, I have HALion and use it a lot. I don't need lower zone, I'm working with a triple monitor setup, the project window on the left, Score in full screen in the middle, the mixer and the video and other tools on the right screen. I'm not sure the Mixer undo history will be really useful.

But, I understand that those additions were based on users requests, I respect that, and I congratulate Steinberg for listening to its customers.

What I'm wondering now is, if users had not requested those features, what would they have added on their own initiative ?

Again I'm very disappointed that there doesn't seem to be any significant MIDI improvement ! Maybe they would have had time to work a little in this area, otherwise.

And Svenne, maybe try to be more diplomatic, some users are disturbed by your tone, which alters their judgement, and that leads them to believe that you're criticizing the whole program and you're just moaning. Besides it seems to devalue your valid arguments.
Last edited by TheMaestro on Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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