Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

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JClosed
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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by JClosed »

nectario wrote:It makes no sense to remove VSTBridge. Just make it more reliable. I guess I will have to convert my 32 bit plugins using JBridge now...
You cannot make the VSTBridge more reliable if the plugins itself are not reliable. The only thing a VSTBridge would do is adding ancient 32 bit plugins that has not been updated in 5 to 10 years. I understand why Steinberg goes for the 64 bit path only. It forces the plugin makers to update their stuff, and improves the stability of Cubase. Let's be fair - Cubase is often accused of being unstable in this forum, while at the end it turned out to be a badly coded plugin that was causing this.

If you really want to use unstable plugins you can always use JBridge. It's not that there are no alternatives at all. Keep in mind though, that using 32 bit plugins using a bridge (or plugin host) can make Cubase unstable again.

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by MikeWK »

EricM wrote:DSarp: you can reactivate the East West Play 5.0.0 Plugin in the Plugin Manager. East West will release very soon an update for Play 5.0.0 that will pass the Scanner without problems.
I did. After restarting Cubase 9 crashed. After restarting Cubase 9 again, it did not crash. Only at the first start...
Then I decided to write East-West to fix this.

Does anybody know if play 4 works?
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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by ha33y »

I'm having the same problem with my Waves plugins. They have disappeared from Pro9
Work fine in 8.5.20 but pro9 does not even see the waveshellx64 and does not even come up in the blacklist window...very weird and annoying.
I go back to 8.5.20 and all there! Back to 9....nothing!
Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by jaslan »

JClosed wrote:
nectario wrote:It makes no sense to remove VSTBridge. Just make it more reliable. I guess I will have to convert my 32 bit plugins using JBridge now...
You cannot make the VSTBridge more reliable if the plugins itself are not reliable. The only thing a VSTBridge would do is adding ancient 32 bit plugins that has not been updated in 5 to 10 years. I understand why Steinberg goes for the 64 bit path only. It forces the plugin makers to update their stuff, and improves the stability of Cubase. Let's be fair - Cubase is often accused of being unstable in this forum, while at the end it turned out to be a badly coded plugin that was causing this.

If you really want to use unstable plugins you can always use JBridge. It's not that there are no alternatives at all. Keep in mind though, that using 32 bit plugins using a bridge (or plugin host) can make Cubase unstable again.
This is a very important point! Worth repeating.
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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by Tim Timmer »

From the description of Plug-in Sentinel:
"With Cubase 9, we have introduced the Plug-in Sentinel which scans all VST plug-ins on start-up now."

Won't this mean that it will take Cubase much longer to start up, if the plug-ins are going to be scanned every time. Not just at first launch. Or am I missing something?

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by Novikthewise »

I hope it will not blacklist half my plugins i am constantly using :(
Last edited by Novikthewise on Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by djw »

Tim Timmer wrote:From the description of Plug-in Sentinel:
"With Cubase 9, we have introduced the Plug-in Sentinel which scans all VST plug-ins on start-up now."

Won't this mean that it will take Cubase much longer to start up, if the plug-ins are going to be scanned every time. Not just at first launch. Or am I missing something?
I'm assuming it's only done once for each newly discovered plugin. It doesn't launch slower, anyway, actually faster because the "eLC" loading part is faster than 8.5 for me.

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by greggybud »

MikeWK wrote:
EricM wrote: Does anybody know if play 4 works?
One user said Play 4 works.

EW Play5 at this time does not. But you can reactivate it and I have spent many hours with it reactivated with no apparent issues.
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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by folkfreak »

Synth1 64 bit passes sentinel fine but don't work (extremly nasty hanging notes) but if I bridge the 64bit via jbridge it works well....

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by Tim Timmer »

After reading this thread, and some other sources, a couple of things strike me. Plug-in Sentinel looks very much like Apples AU validation, in terms of purpose. A feature of Apples Audio Unit format that is notorious for creating problems, very similar to those reported here.

It looks like it’s next to impossible to make a validation system that works flawlessly. But who knows. Steinberg might succeed where Apple has failed, despite more than a decade of development.

It’s true that most application crashes are caused by plug-ins, and Plug-in Sentinel may help, to a certain extent, once all the bugs are ironed out.

I can’t help to think, though, that Steinberg have bet on the wrong technology! Wouldn’t it have made more sense to look at how the operating systems dealt with a similar problem. In the old day, when an application crashed, it brought the OS with it, Just like when a plug-in crashes within Cubase.

This hasn’t happened in decades. Neither Windows nor OS X “validates” applications. Their solution, protected memory. If Steinberg had chosen to make the VST/VSTi’s in protected memory box’(s) inside Cubase, they would have achieved the same (if not better) stability with none of the problems caused by a validation system.

A plug-in can crash, to it’s hearts content. It will not bring Cubase down with it.

Perhaps it is not possible to run VST/VSTi plugins in protected memory. Maybe it’s time to think about retiring the VST format and develop a more modern format from scratch. Avid/Digidesign did this, when RTAS became too long in the tooth. The VST format, actually, celebrates it’s 20th birthday this year. Happy birthday! VST! It was “born” in 1996. 20 years old is an old-timer in the world of software. OS X, Windows as well as Cubase itself has been re-built from the ground up, during these years.

If Steinberg do decide to develop a new plug-in format, I hope they go for running the plug-ins in protected memory.

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by djw »

There is no reason to assume the Sentinel is what's faulty. We should expect developers to fix the issues in their plugins, and not build a sandbox around them because they're so badly made.

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by Steinberg »

Tim Timmer wrote: Their solution, protected memory. If Steinberg had chosen to make the VST/VSTi’s in protected memory box’(s) inside Cubase, they would have achieved the same (if not better) stability with none of the problems caused by a validation system.
Isn't it ironic, then, that the Sentinel has been developed mostly in order to exclude plug-ins that misbehave due to an OS bug that causes... memory corruption?
:)

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by djw »

Fabio Bartolini wrote:Isn't it ironic, then, that the Sentinel has been developed mostly in order to exclude plug-ins that misbehave due to an OS bug that causes... memory corruption?
:)
Does that mean the Sentinel was mostly made for Mac OS X?

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by Steinberg »

Mmmhh, not really, that 'mostly' was a lil forced I admit (was a light-hearted comment). But on OS X it also forces a crash to find the plug-ins affected.
The rest should be the same on both platform - a compliance test.

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by djw »

Fabio Bartolini wrote:Mmmhh, not really, that 'mostly' was a lil forced I admit (was a light-hearted comment). But on OS X it also forces a crash to find the plug-ins affected.
The rest should be the same on both platform - a compliance test.
Alright, I see now. It's good that you're combining this with talking to plugin developers, hopefully it's better for everyone this way.

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by dragonstyne »

musicbeat wrote:
gregsimon wrote:On OSX 10.11.6 Pro9 Steinberg's own "The Grand 3 (3.1.1) is blacklisted despite being a 64bit VST3. Hmm. Should I update to macos sierra then? Seems like that will just add more problems. :-(
Clearly, you didn't read this thread/article: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... r-Cubase-9
Greetings musicbeat,

You were a little short on the link https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... r-Cubase-9

This thing does this sometimes.

Regards,

[][][]Steve
Best Regards,

[][][]Steve

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by mitchiemasha »

Fabio Bartolini wrote:Hello Prock,

yes, it looks weird, but there's an explanation.

You will find two dlls: one is iZotope*plug_name*.dll and one iZ*plug_name.dll.

The first file is the valid plug-in's dll, the second is not.

Thank you! I've been telling people this for days but no one was listening. I've OCD with my instillation folders and was very annoyed when installing iZotope some months back, they'd removed the choices from the installer. I couldn't tell which was the dll i wanted to keep, I was going to email them and ask. Thanks to Sentinal it made it very clear. Thank you Steinberg. The plugin manager is seriously improved. Cubase took for ever to load and I got crashes when jumping from project to project. Not no more... Naughty plugins!!!
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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by mitchiemasha »

I also like, when one clicks on a plugin in the master list, it shows you where it is in your created list. It's the little things like this that make users go NICE, when using it. 5 seconds earlier dreading the Headache of thinking about which plugins are actually in my folder.

AND... Cubase giving up on 32 bit was easily the best choice to make, spend resources else where... Those who need it can use Jbridge. We wanted stability and Stability is what they are giving us.
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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by nectario »

I see. At least there is JBridge... Seems to work decently on most old plugins -- though not all.
JClosed wrote:
nectario wrote:It makes no sense to remove VSTBridge. Just make it more reliable. I guess I will have to convert my 32 bit plugins using JBridge now...
You cannot make the VSTBridge more reliable if the plugins itself are not reliable. The only thing a VSTBridge would do is adding ancient 32 bit plugins that has not been updated in 5 to 10 years. I understand why Steinberg goes for the 64 bit path only. It forces the plugin makers to update their stuff, and improves the stability of Cubase. Let's be fair - Cubase is often accused of being unstable in this forum, while at the end it turned out to be a badly coded plugin that was causing this.

If you really want to use unstable plugins you can always use JBridge. It's not that there are no alternatives at all. Keep in mind though, that using 32 bit plugins using a bridge (or plugin host) can make Cubase unstable again.

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by nectario »

I take it back... I am actually glad now that they got *rid* of VSTBridge... In the past, it's the one thing in Cubase that would always crash on me when opening old projects... On the other hand, now that I converted all my old plugins to JBridge, I am just surprised how much smoother and faster they open up now. We're talking about ten year old projects... Now I just convert the plugins I truly need, which works great!

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by fretthefret »

I just about passed out when I saw that Sonic Academy's Nicky Romero KICK and KICK2 were both blacklisted, as was everything from Izotope. Those make it in to almost every mix.

BUT....

On further inspection, KICK and KICK2 both installed a 32bit version into my 64 bit plugins folder (something I'm usually very careful about de-selecting when installing so I have no idea how those snuck in there!) and it was only those 32 bit dll's that were blacklisted.
The 64bit version is in my plugins list and working.

I think ALL the Izotope 64 bit VST2 versions (I have just about everything from them) got blacklisted. Most of the VST3 versions are in my plugin list and operate as normal. I've only so far noticed BreakTweaker isn't there and not working.

So, that being said, Sentinel stopped almost nothing from being accessed in my entire collection! Which is really quite something considering my slight "hoarding issue" with VST plugins and VSTi's . I usually go for dinner if I'm doing a rescan! (there's several thousand to rescan, and for those leering - they are ALL legit and licensed!)
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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by vinark »

ha33y wrote:I'm having the same problem with my Waves plugins. They have disappeared from Pro9
Work fine in 8.5.20 but pro9 does not even see the waveshellx64 and does not even come up in the blacklist window...very weird and annoying.
I go back to 8.5.20 and all there! Back to 9....nothing!
Any ideas?

Thanks in advance
The vst2.4 shell doesn't work anymore. The vst3 does!

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by polgara »

Can we have the old SX3 plugins back in cubase 9 please .
Cubase 9.5 plus all the 32 bit SX3 Plugins and beyond. No more bucketverbs Kick the Buckets wheeee! .here`s my bucket list ,oh dam i`ve forgot their names already.

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by polgara »

hi there ,i still use the old double delay ,reverb A and rotary and a few more from way back now and again, they are very simple plugins and do what they say on the can . i don`t like it now that the policeman plugin sentinal has blacklisted them considering they were even actualy made by steinberg . when i open completed projects in cubase 9 now there are lots of missing plugs namely the ones i`ve mentioned ,if you can`t get these old simple plugsins i`ve mentioned working then shame on you.
Cubase 9.5 plus all the 32 bit SX3 Plugins and beyond. No more bucketverbs Kick the Buckets wheeee! .here`s my bucket list ,oh dam i`ve forgot their names already.

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Re: Cubase Plug-in Sentinel: Blacklisted plug-ins

Post by polgara »

there must be some way because i just loasded some old 32 bit plugs with jbridge, but can`t load the ones i previously mentioned at the moment .
i don`t know why steinberg hasn`t copied these old plugs , i heard somebody mention that plugs arn`t changed from one version to the next so that the sound will remain unchanged if you load a project into cubase 4 then into say cubase 8 your mix should remain the same .so how am i supposed to do that if they suddenly make something obsolete
Cubase 9.5 plus all the 32 bit SX3 Plugins and beyond. No more bucketverbs Kick the Buckets wheeee! .here`s my bucket list ,oh dam i`ve forgot their names already.

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