Playback - the green line

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MarkSealey
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by MarkSealey »

Thanks so much, Paul. Have changed back down to 44.1K. I had moved up to 19.2 b/c that's the default of the ASIO device.

I have no other apps or s/w that could be changing the sample rate.
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by MarcLarcher »

Hi Mark!
It's the first time in my life — and yes, I received the training of an audio engineer ! — I read 19,2kHz could be a default sampling frequency in any device… ;-) Do you mean 192kHz? Anyway, Paul's advice seems very wise to me, the standards have been 44,1kHz (CD) and 48kHz for so many years that it seems safe to think everything should run smoothly with those values.
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by MarkSealey »

Marc,

Yes - of course 192! Sorry; thanks.

I've set to 44. It is a very intermittent phenomenon.
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by MarkSealey »

Thanks, Daniel - I just emailed you offline a zip of a project which reproduces it and a QT movie where I press P to play from the selected note; playback is heard perfectly. But the green playhead disappears offscreen right.

(Maybe pursued by a bear.)

I left it a few secs to see if it would catch up. At this time, randomly, it does not.

Appreciated.
Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:50 am
I need more evidence of this new problem… please capture a video showing the problem in action so I can see it for myself.
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by Robby Poole »

I will add my name in the hat and say this has happened to me too, in v1.2. The green line keeps moving, but the occasionally the score stops following where the green line is.

I will try to find a file and share.

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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by mipi »

Hi, I had lthe same problem on my MacBook Pro: playback line was not in sync with a writen music. So changing a sample rate from 48,000 to 44,100 solved this issue completely.

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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by ReRei »

Changing the sample rate didn’t help here. Unfortunately.

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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by ReRei »

ReRei wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:32 am
MarkSealey wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:33 am
Yes, it's begun to reappear for me too, alas.

I've tried slowly resetting my Sample Rate (perhaps 19,200 is too high?).

But the scrolling bug is still evident… the playhead/green line moves off the page to the right without the score following.

What's more, I can often solve this by switching Modes (away from Write - to Engrave, Play or Print etc) back and forth - as previously.

Would any more details be helpful in tracking this down?

TIA!
Yes that’s what I meant. The problem of the playback line not following the music is still there. It has become better since the former versions but is unfortunately still there.
I'm still having this problem also in version 2 of Dorico. So far in landscape mode.
Am i the only one?

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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by Ulf »

ReRei wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:00 pm
I'm still having this problem also in version 2 of Dorico. So far in landscape mode.
Do you always have that problem? Want to say, on every time playing the green line goes out of sync with the actual playback?
If so, please choose from the main menu Help > Create Diagnostic Report. That will create a zip file on your desktop.
Please send it to 'u dot stoermer at steinberg dot de'.
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by ReRei »

No. The problem comes sometimes while I’m working on different scores. Quite regularly however when I work longer on a score in galley view. The green line disappears from the window while the music goes on. The line simply doesn’t follow the music.
And I also had this problem in page view.
I have made 2 videos showing this behavior.

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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by MarkSealey »

I've had this problem too - by the looks of it exactly as ReiRei is doing.

But I hesitate to mention it (here) because Daniel and the team definitely know about it and have been extremely patient with my repeated mentions.

It got better with 1.2 and yet did still appear. Tended to be after a few hours into a session. Switching Modes as the temporary workaround doesn't do the trick - at least not for more than a few minutes. Restarting Dorico (almost) always does… 'memory leak'?

So far nothing with version 2. But if I should get it, I'll mention it again - if I may.
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by Ulf »

ReRei wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:42 am
No. The problem comes sometimes while I’m working on different scores. Quite regularly however when I work longer on a score in galley view. The green line disappears from the window while the music goes on. The line simply doesn’t follow the music.
And I also had this problem in page view.
I have made 2 videos showing this behavior.
You forgot to attach the videos (or post a link.)
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by ReRei »

Can I email them to you? I think they are too big as attachments here.

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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

Stick them in Dropbox or Box and then post a link here. Though I have seen such videos (from e.g. Mark Sealey) and that doesn't help to reproduce the problem.

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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by ReRei »

I don't use dropbox. But in this case it's anyhow not necessary.

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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by MarkSealey »

After about three hours work this afternoon, I regret to have to say, it's still there for me.

Dorico 2.0.0.1041
High Sierra 10.13.5

I suppose it could be considered as much that the score stops scrolling leftwards as that the playhead moves rightwards off screen. But it definitely does still happen.

I'd say about 50% of the time, a redraw puts things right after 10 seconds or so by itself. The rest of the time, restarting Dorico does.

But neither switching modes nor changing the Sample Rate away from and back to 44,100 helps.

Ulf, I've emailed you a video, diagnostic and project etc

If I can help in any other way with troubleshooting this, I'd be delighted.

Thanks so much!
MarkSealey wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:37 am
So far nothing with version 2. But if I should get it, I'll mention it again - if I may.
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by PaulWalmsley »

I think there is some confusion here -- to be clear I think there are two completely separate issues.

1. Playback line position accelerates due to the sample rate being changed outside Dorico: as reported by Auerbach, John B, mipi.
2. The score isn't shifted when the playback line scrolls out of view, as reported by ReRei, MarkSealey, Johan-v, JackvL, Robby.

Issue 1 can be resolved by resetting the sample rate within Dorico.
Issue 2 we've been looking at for about 18 months (STEAM-4736). Initially there was a problem that a few of us could reproduce in the office, and then James spotted and fixed a threading problem around October last year, which seemed to fix this for most users. I don't believe this one is related to sample rates. The difficult thing is that in cases like Mark's, it only manifests after a large period of time, so trying to pinpoint what has changed at that point is hard. My best guess at present is that this is either a strange threading problem, or something like App Nap that is causing the display to not update any more. We'll continue to gather data on it, but at the moment I don't think there's anything concrete we can do.
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by MarkSealey »

Thanks, Paul. Yes. Spot on. I'm talking about 2.

I'll try following the simpler (identification) and more drastic (default write) solutions suggested here to see if it makes a difference.

Although restarting Dorico almost always cures the bug, it's usually only a temporary fix; having to do that almost every time I want to play anything back is an annoyance, obviously.

Is there no debugging/tracking routine that can be applied in a way that would reveal exactly what's going on when one of us experiences it, please?
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

Mark, don't you think that if there were, Paul would have mentioned it...?

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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by PaulWalmsley »

There's currently no _simple_ thing you can do at the moment that would give us the extra data. There's some extra instrumentation that I may be able to add to Dorico which could give some more detail as to what's going on, but that will take some time to implement.
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by MarkSealey »

I know this is a real annoyance for everyone concerned - particularly when it's so tricky to reproduce. I'm sorry.

As a mere user, though, I have a poor sense of where it figures on your list of priorities - particularly with so few apparently experiencing it.

Though I know you'll appreciate that as a dedicated 'fan' of Dorico who uses it daily, to have this kind of 'disability' is pretty… 'burdensome' ;).

As a one-time developer myself I'm quite used to putting in tracer code that - although it produces masses of lines of output - can sometimes reveal the otherwise untroubleshootable.

I suppose what I'm really saying is that - since the one obvious approach of a member of your team wasting valuable hours waiting for it to manifest itself is impractical - I'd be happy to trial something else myself!

Am I remembering correctly that Dorico Pro 2 uses a new QT framework? Wouldn't the fact that it hasn't fixed the phenomenon suggest that it lies elsewhere?

Anyway, thanks for keeping it it!
Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:37 pm
Mark, don't you think that if there were, Paul would have mentioned it...?
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by Robby Poole »

I hate to add to this subject any further, as I wonder if it will help.

But one thing I believe I noticed, is that when this issue seems to occur the green playback line is behind an open side window, and that the frame did jump when playback line reached what would have been the end of the visible music had the side window been closed.

Once again, since October, this has happened a handful of times (4-ish), so I felt things were taken care of. But just in case, maybe what I saw might shed some light on the issue.

Robby
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by MarkSealey »

Robby,

Do you mean that the Toolbox and/or its Panels are expanded?

If so, one of them (almost) is in my case, as I work. Seems as though Dorico would know that they are taking up screen space into which the playback head could otherwise move. Or am I misunderstanding?

Thanks!
Robby Poole wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:42 pm
…when this issue seems to occur the green playback line is behind an open side window, and that the frame did jump when playback line reached what would have been the end of the visible music had the side window been closed.…
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by Robby Poole »

You understood me correctly, the toolbox/panels were open. Dorico moved the page after the green line reached the end of what would have been visible had the toolbox/panel been closed (or if you could see through the toolbox/panels).

Once again, this has happened so few times since October, that I chalked it up to something else happening. I haven't seen the behavior in quite a few weeks, so I could be throwing something into the fire that doesn't help the diagnosis of this problem.

Robby
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Re: Playback - the green line

Post by PaulWalmsley »

I appreciate your frustration, Mark. As Daniel has mentioned many times before, we do have to take some difficult decisions about where to focus our time, and we do try to ensure that the widest range of customers get the best bang for their buck. Having said that, we do also spend considerable time looking at problems such as this that do only affect a handful of users. We do have some instrumentation code in Dorico already, but it currently doesn't contain enough specific information to diagnose this particular problem. I do hope to spend some time adding a bit more instrumentation that _could_ help.

One extra bit of information that could be relevant: does this happen in page view as well as galley view?
Architect & Developer - Steinberg London

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