Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by profezeus »

The problem is that, if you try to incrementally disable/enable tracks on top of already disabled tracks, the previous ones loose their Expression Maps, which is very much what happens in the real world application of this function.

Here is westwoodi's step by step test (I just tried it again when 8.5.10 came out):
westwoodi wrote:After hours of playing around with my template, I came to the conclusion that operation was random and my template file was corrupt. Having not seen any problems on a test with a new file I decided to start re-creating my template from scratch. I soon came across the problem, and have an sequence which fails consistently on my machine. It is so basic, that I wonder if my Cubase install is dodgy.

1. Create a new empty project
2. Add a single instrument track (Prologue for example), load an expression map and assign it to the track
3. Disable the track
4. Save the project and close it
5. Open the project
6. Add a second instrument track (Prologue again) and assign the expression map
7. Disable the track
8. Save the project and close it
9. Open the project
10. Enable track2 and the expression map link is OK (Optional step, does not affect the outcome)
11. Enable track1 and the expression map link as gone

Would someone mind spending five minutes and testing this on their setup please?

Thanks in advance, Ian
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by profezeus »

Here is Fabio post:
Fabio Bartolini wrote:Been very busy, I see this has gone a long way in the meanwhile.

I wanted to reply to a couple questions for a few days now.

'Collected Issues' means the issue is reported in our internal tracking system, it is known and being worked on / on schedule / being discussed or planned.
There are many more collected tasks than those listed in the forum. Also, not all threads are moved to 'collected', even if actually collected (reasons may vary).

About the specific issues you asked for above:
The first one (BON-14128) should fit in 8.5.20. There is no 'fix version' set for the other two, but both are active tasks.

Yes, some fixes coming with 8.5.10 will also apply to 8.0.40 (automation, VCA, performance, etc.)

There are some important tasks related to the consistency of the performance across systems (starting from the next release already). This should benefit in particular the users having performance problems and those who witness a lesser performance compared to the previous version(s). All users should see an improvement, though.

That's it, pick the one you were waiting for, if any ;-)
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by -steve- »

Ahah. I see. it repros exactly, of course. Thanks. sorry to interrupt. :oops:
(edit), and thanks for fishing out Fabio's post.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by profezeus »

SteveInChicago wrote:Ahah. I see. it repros exactly, of course. Thanks. sorry to interrupt. :oops:
(edit), and thanks for fishing out Fabio's post.
You're very welcome :)

I'm just anxiously waiting for the 8.5.20 now, as this fix will enhance my workflow immensely.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by raino »

Pablo1980 wrote:
airflamesred wrote:
raino wrote: Can you give some details about articulations you can achieve using racks but not instruments?
For example, Cello might need stacato, spic, sustain and legato. So I would use 1 Kontakt instance, the 4 nki's (on different midi channels) and one midi track. I just change the channels of the notes in the piano roll. So the cello line is all in one place.
Does this work with tracks? I'm on day 3 with ver8.5 so haven't explored fully.
You can do this with expression maps, I have them for all my libraries, you can set keyswitches that change the channel of your kontakt instance, or you can edit in the piano roll with the articulation lane or a drop down menu. It even tell you which articulation you are using, just select the notes and choos pizz for example. You can also have stacked arts, etc

And of course all the pros of instrument tracks, when steinberg fixes the expression maps not being remembered when you enable disabled tracks.
Like Pablo said. Attached is a screen grab showing a simple example of an Expression Map to do this - you can get much more complicated if you need. Also this same map could be used on a MIDI Track/Rack setup. Likewise the technique you are using of changing the midi channel for specific notes will also work on an Instrument Track.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by JMCecil »

airflamesred wrote:
raino wrote: Can you give some details about articulations you can achieve using racks but not instruments?
For example, Cello might need stacato, spic, sustain and legato. So I would use 1 Kontakt instance, the 4 nki's (on different midi channels) and one midi track. I just change the channels of the notes in the piano roll. So the cello line is all in one place.
Does this work with tracks? I'm on day 3 with ver8.5 so haven't explored fully.
Edit: this was stated incorrectly.."Right, MIDI channelizing is one of the drawbacks to instrument tracks."..you can use multiple channel output on an instrument track... I don't to do that for articulation a


I just use multiple MIDI tracks and load them all into the midi editor with channel being the color difference. Then you can set the editor to only edit active part. That way you can pop between the articulations without having to open/close a crap load of editors.

EDIT: In this example I'm using expression maps for the articulations and channels for different instruments
Red = Violin 1
Yellow = Violin 2
Blue = Viola
Green = Cello

Image
Last edited by JMCecil on Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by realizment2 »

JMCecil wrote:
airflamesred wrote:
raino wrote: Can you give some details about articulations you can achieve using racks but not instruments?
For example, Cello might need stacato, spic, sustain and legato. So I would use 1 Kontakt instance, the 4 nki's (on different midi channels) and one midi track. I just change the channels of the notes in the piano roll. So the cello line is all in one place.
Does this work with tracks? I'm on day 3 with ver8.5 so haven't explored fully.
Right, MIDI channelizing is one of the drawbacks to instrument tracks. I just use multiple MIDI tracks and load them all into the midi editor with channel being the color difference. Then you can set the editor to only edit active part. That way you can pop between the articulations without having to open/close a crap load of editors.

EDIT: In this example I'm using expression maps for the articulations and channels for different instruments
Red = Violin 1
Yellow = Violin 2
Blue = Viola
Green = Cello

Image
How do you set it up ike this to have multiple things in the key editor color coded?

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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by JMCecil »

The color dropdown on the editor .. Click the setup button to adjust the colors for each option.

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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by airflamesred »

JMCecil wrote: Right, MIDI channelizing is one of the drawbacks to instrument tracks. I just use multiple MIDI tracks and load them all into the midi editor with channel being the color difference. Then you can set the editor to only edit active part. That way you can pop between the articulations without having to open/close a crap load of editors.

EDIT: In this example I'm using expression maps for the articulations and channels for different instruments
Red = Violin 1
Yellow = Violin 2
Blue = Viola
Green = Cello
Thank you very much, Sir.
I haved given up on this working (see my other post) and I have just, this evening, resorted to adding a midi track per artic. My concern is the screen getting clogged up so it means adding another layer of folder tracks or using the new visability functions.
I had forgotten about selecting multiple midi tracks, so I thank you again.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by raino »

JMCecil wrote:
airflamesred wrote:
raino wrote: Can you give some details about articulations you can achieve using racks but not instruments?
For example, Cello might need stacato, spic, sustain and legato. So I would use 1 Kontakt instance, the 4 nki's (on different midi channels) and one midi track. I just change the channels of the notes in the piano roll. So the cello line is all in one place.
Does this work with tracks? I'm on day 3 with ver8.5 so haven't explored fully.
Right, MIDI channelizing is one of the drawbacks to instrument tracks. I just use multiple MIDI tracks and load them all into the midi editor with channel being the color difference. Then you can set the editor to only edit active part. That way you can pop between the articulations without having to open/close a crap load of editors.

EDIT: In this example I'm using expression maps for the articulations and channels for different instruments
Red = Violin 1
Yellow = Violin 2
Blue = Viola
Green = Cello

Image
I don't understand the distinction you are pointing out. I often do what appears to me the same thing (i.e. editing multiple midi parts on different channels at the same time that are color coded) but using an Instrument Track instead of a Rack Instrument.

This general method is great and lets you see how different instrument lines relate to each other. But this technique seems independent of whether Instruments or Racks are used.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by -steve- »

If you want to have different articulations or instruments on different channels in one VST, it used to be that you were forced to use Rack instruments because Track instruments could only transmit on channel 1. That changed - in C7.5, I think.

Now you can load a VST with multiple channels of stuff and address it all by setting the track channel in the Inspector to 'Any', and setting the midi channels of the midi notes to the channels the various instruments are on.

You can add separate audio outputs for the Track Instrument, or not. That is a separate thing, and not required, unless you want to mix the instruments individually, or apply different FX.

One use for this would be if your instrument has its articulations on different channels, like acro on ch1, pizz ch2 etc., In that case you would only need the default stereo output the Ins Track defaults to when you create it.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by airflamesred »

SteveInChicago wrote:If you want to have different articulations or instruments on different channels in one VST, it used to be that you were forced to use Rack instruments because Track instruments could only transmit on channel 1. That changed - in C7.5, I think.

Now you can load a VST with multiple channels of stuff and address it all by setting the track channel in the Inspector to 'Any', and setting the midi channels of the midi notes to the channels the various instruments are on.
I've just tried this briefly and it appears to work without the ludicrous drop in volume that I get with the midi track version. Interesting and thanks.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by -steve- »

That's great, but it's just a coincidence. The drop in volume must have been due to different settings on the different channels of the Rack instrument you were using.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by JMCecil »

notice I'm not doing articulations ... I'm doing multi-instruments <wink>

to say it another way ... if I don't have an expression map, I can channelize articulations.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by JMCecil »

I guess I was explaining poorly. Let's see if I can fix that.

I find using a single instrument track and using MIDI channels to control articulations across multiple instances, cumbersome. I worded that poorly above. I much prefer multi-articulation instrument setups on a single MIDI channel. Then I use the multi-color channelizing to tell the difference between instruments instead of articulations. I think it makes it easier to see compositions that way. I spend a lot of time working on expression maps to facilitate this approach. It's a work flow example. Hopefully that clears it up a little.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by JMCecil »

I fixed my first post to make it clear that I used crappy wording
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by airflamesred »

SteveInChicago wrote:That's great, but it's just a coincidence. The drop in volume must have been due to different settings on the different channels of the Rack instrument you were using.
I'm not sure Steve, I'm still investigating.

Anyway, I did notice that with the new, 'edit in place' that you can open more than one and drag data between the them.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by kfir26 »

Manike wrote:
keyzs wrote:Hi guys... since we're on the issues of templates and workflow for 2016, i have a wired question with regard to Kontakt.

all along i have large template sets in various instances of Kontakt; some with more instruments and some with less - from 6 instruments to 12 maximum. They are all set up with their own folders and then the MIDI tracks will load and placed into their respective folders.

recently, out of laziness, i decided to use one instrument per single instance of Kontakt. i found the advantages as follows:
1. easy track controls - (need need to look for track being MIDI or Instrument Audio Track; MUTE, SOLO, VST.... etc
2. easy to Freeze a single instrument - as opposed to the whole Kontakt collection
3. easy to change to a different instrument (ie from Kontakt Piano to Korg M1) - all Track, MIDI, Notepad, Version... etc data is retained
5. dont have to double check on either MIDI or Audio Automation
6. some other benefits....

i was wondering if using one instrument per Kontakt instance is more efficient or still using the previous workflow of Kontakt Multitimbral with separate MIDI tracks... any advice is much appreciate.

many thanks all... Cheers!!!

This is how I use kontakt - It should spread the load equally across multiple cores when you do this also.
But what are you doing when you have 80 kontakt patches? I find that on percussion Kontakt instance I can put 8 tracks of midi as for strings legato only 2

BTW what is your multicore selected option in Kontakt and Cubase?
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by Sunshy »

What happened to the workflow and template tips!?
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by -steve- »

Sunshy wrote:What happened to the workflow and template tips!?
I cleaned the thread up a little bit, but it's hard to keep a topic with so many potential aspects cleanly organized... Strictly speaking, it's still on on topic, largely. :P
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

here's what i'm using: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

or: http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=bja8p1% ... s3hupMrLox

...as well as: http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=30hy3nr ... OoPV_mjO3E

other things on my to-do list when i finally have no commissioned music to write: try the windows speech recognition API to control cubase with rudimentary voice commands.
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cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by keyzs »

kfir26 wrote:
Manike wrote:
keyzs wrote:Hi guys... since we're on the issues of templates and workflow for 2016, i have a wired question with regard to Kontakt.

all along i have large template sets in various instances of Kontakt; some with more instruments and some with less - from 6 instruments to 12 maximum. They are all set up with their own folders and then the MIDI tracks will load and placed into their respective folders.

recently, out of laziness, i decided to use one instrument per single instance of Kontakt. i found the advantages as follows:
1. easy track controls - (need need to look for track being MIDI or Instrument Audio Track; MUTE, SOLO, VST.... etc
2. easy to Freeze a single instrument - as opposed to the whole Kontakt collection
3. easy to change to a different instrument (ie from Kontakt Piano to Korg M1) - all Track, MIDI, Notepad, Version... etc data is retained
5. dont have to double check on either MIDI or Audio Automation
6. some other benefits....

i was wondering if using one instrument per Kontakt instance is more efficient or still using the previous workflow of Kontakt Multitimbral with separate MIDI tracks... any advice is much appreciate.

many thanks all... Cheers!!!

This is how I use kontakt - It should spread the load equally across multiple cores when you do this also.
But what are you doing when you have 80 kontakt patches? I find that on percussion Kontakt instance I can put 8 tracks of midi as for strings legato only 2

BTW what is your multicore selected option in Kontakt and Cubase?
The idea above is to treat each (Kontakt) patch as its own individual instrument due to the benefits as mentioned.

However, there may come a time when you may want to consolidate certain patches; ie special effects samples or one hit type of sounds. If you use EWQLSO on Kontakt, you may consolidate the F,C and S mics of (for example 18 violins) in one instance of Kontakt because they are just three variations of the same instrument.

That being said, 8 tracks of MIDI, i would assume its an assembly of individual drum patches with 8 different MIDI channels and outputs. You should be able to load up to, i think, 64 MIDI channels depending on your active ports going into Kontakt. My Port A is the only one active hence its just 16 channels for 16 live play instruments.

As for multicore option, Kontakt was set at 4 Cores using the multi-timbral method. After testing out the one instrument one knotakt method, multicore on Kontakt is set Off. On Cubase its always set to multi core enabled.
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by Stephen57 »

As this thread develops, and I hope it will, I wanted to suggest this.

If you have a "tip" perhaps indicate that with a header at the top of the post and, further, indicate if your post is related to 1) Workflow, 2) a particular Template concept or 3) whatever subject you're posting about.

:idea: Here's how you do X, Y or Z (header example for a Tips post)

If you have a question, indicate that.

:?: I want to do X, Y or Z and need some help. (header example for a Question post)

This way when we scroll through the posts it will be easier to find things.

I'd like to also suggest that if you have a question, post that in a its own thread. That way we'll have more Tips and Workflow ideas here and less Q & A. So far I think there's been a workable balance on that, but I can see the thread getting away from what I think the OP's intention is.

Don't Panic and Thanks for all the fish! Good posts everyone. I already have a backlog of ideas from this. Both my Workflow and Templates are improving. Lastly, even if some of what's posted here is redundant with prior posts on previous versions (say that five times fast :lol: ), i find it easier to locate the board's more recent posts.

Happy CuBaseing 8-)
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by Stephen57 »

:idea: +1 Advanced Macros and cubase programming from Lukas Turza. :-) Impressive.
lukasbrooklyn wrote:here's what i'm using: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

or: http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=bja8p1% ... s3hupMrLox

...as well as: http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=30hy3nr ... OoPV_mjO3E

other things on my to-do list when i finally have no commissioned music to write: try the windows speech recognition API to control cubase with rudimentary voice commands.
Lukas, thanks for taking the time to post. Excellent ideas on how to make Cubase work for you with advanced macros and key commands. Your works sound great, as always.
-------------------------------------------------------
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Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
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jamieboo
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Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:45 pm
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Re: Workflow & Template tips thread 2016

Post by jamieboo »

Hello folks

Just been reading through this very useful thread!

I have a question about using Expression Maps or not in templates.
Before Expression Maps were discussed in the thread someone mentioned having different articulations set to different midi channels. Then having that instance routed through to a SINGLE midi track (set to 'Midi Channel: All') so the articulations can be changed by simply changing the midi channel of the note in question.
This would suit me very well I think, and I wouldn't need to spend time coming up with lots of Expression Maps. BUT it seems that if you work this way and then draw a dynamic CC curve in on the controller lane, the CC data ONLY applies to midi channel 1. SO in the Key Editor any notes above the drawn curve that are assigned midi channel 1 will have the CC data applied to them, but any notes on other channels will not.
Is this the case or am I missing a setting somewhere?

(I'm on Cubase 8 and mainly using EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond)
Windows 10 64bit
i7 5820K, Asrock X99 Extreme6 mobo, 32gb RAM, 4x Samsung 850 EVO 500gb SSDs,
MSI GTX980ti
Steinberg UR22
Cubase 9
EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond

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