Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by CubeDAW »

There is a reason I jumped on this. I have always bought every upgrade right away and I never had any issues I can remember in recent years with the upgrade until now (Cubase 8 Pro).

Someone noted it works better on a Mac, great but a lot of us don't use a Mac. Something changed at Steinberg, maybe new management, maybe some important people retired but this is not the same Steinberg team. How could they let this catastrophe happen?

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by mroekalea »

The reason that I'm Always one of the early adpaters is that I want to get to know all the features fast, on the other hand I do not make money with cubase or in the music busines in general. I write demo's for the new songs which 2 of my bands would write! And bsedis that I Always have the opertunity to use the previous version as this is still available side to side by C8.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by BasariStudios »

Was there ever a Cubase version ready for release to begin with, except VST 3.7 in 1997 i think???
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by characterstudios »

silhouette wrote:characterstudios you don't seem to be making much sense to me. When people say wait for the demo, they are meaning that the demo is usually released when the major bugs are sorted. Which kind of knocks a hole in your second argument.
I must have read and understood some of these posts differently/wrong then:
curteye wrote:Why not just wait a lil while for the 'free' demo version and see if that works for you?
and
bantam wrote:It pays to wait for the demo while one works out from reviews and reports what new bits of hardware might be needed to make it all work.

(After which Bantam also states that if you use Cubase prior to the demo being out, you're just a beta tester).

That said, if we really have to wait until a software demo is out until the software is usable, then Steinberg should label their software "Beta" when selling it prior to that. BTW, I made that point too, that Steinberg probably are waiting for the software to be stable before releasing a demo.
silhouette wrote:Your first argument is undermined by the fact that all those users have a perfectly workable alternative on their machine already. Inconvenient and annoying even, but hardly a deal breaker when these issues will get sorted. If I had wanted to go will Pro Tools I'd be spending more money than I would like for something that looks a lot worse and gets even more complaints and the plugins cost more. Logic, a glorified Garage Band? No thanks! I'll stick with Cubase and I guess a lot of others will.
That's exactly my point though: Sure we'll stick with Cubase. But I made the second point under the assumption that some people here said: "Wait for the demo", of which my interpretation is different than yours (based on the examples I quoted).
silhouette wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm not altogether happy but I can live with it for a while because I know the alternatives are a) worse b) going to cost me more money c) having looked at and used the competition (with friends who use them) I don't like them.
Same here, I love Cubase, I'm able to work with/through the issues reasonably well. But it doesn't take away that it feels that this one shipped really early, and that IMHO Steinberg should be more honest about dot zero releases being "early availability"/"Beta" (which I think will only be appreciated by the community).

It would be something if companies that sell cars, or planes, or pharmaceutics, or food, or... would be releasing a product onto the market as "the real thing", while it's actually not ready for release. That would not be accepted. So why are there so many people on this forum saying that's acceptable for a piece of software?

Regards,

characterstudios

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by noiseboyuk »

While I have caveats, it's broadly working well here. I vote with the anti-hysteria crowd.

I wouldn't want to go back to 7.5, and that's the acid test. But for those with serious troubles, that all you need to do, just wait til your specific issues are addressed. You still have 7.5 and a license for 8 when it and you are ready. It's an inconvenience, not a disaster. And ALWAYS save versions as you work, on top of auto backups, regardless of your version or DAW.

As for Pro Tools being a better bet - absolutely emphatically not. You need PT HD for a remotely comparable feature set, which cannot be bought as software-only (even though it doesn't need Avid hardware to run - go figure). The cheapest rig is circa $5k, about 10 times the cost of C8 Pro and markedly worse midi features. My 11HD software fell apart again today, I had to go back to 10 HD. 11 had now been out close to 2 years.

You know the phrase "the grass is always greener"?
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by themarqueeyears »

When it comes to DAW software it's a case of "pick your poison"

All modern DAW's are amazing (some more than others) and ALL of them are buggy, especially new versions.

Reading some of these posts you'd think some people were tied up and had Cubase Pro 8 installed on their computer against their will!

I really feel for the Steinberg production team, every time they release a new version of Cubase it's like flipping Ground Hog Day on this forum.

"Man, I'm back on the previous version - even though I proclaimed the previous version to be the worse release ever 18 months ago"

Cubase Pro 9 will come out - and yep, you'll hear it .... " This is terrible I'm rolling back to Cubase Pro 8.53 - SB have really lost it this time!"

Ground Hog Day I tell you.

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by claesbjo »

I think it´s great that we all are beta testers.. what do you think gives faster bug catching, a small beta group in hamburg or the whole cubase user base? Use 7.5 if you are so offended by the bugs, its a great piece of software. I´m having very few issues with 8 so far btw.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by Bantam »

(After which Bantam also states that if you use Cubase prior to the demo being out, you're just a beta tester).

That said, if we really have to wait until a software demo is out until the software is usable, then Steinberg should label their software "Beta" when selling it prior to that. BTW, I made that point too, that Steinberg probably are waiting for the software to be stable before releasing a demo.
If you don't know about software then you won't know what I'm talking about. If you expect software, any software, to be bug free then maybe it's time to bone up on a few realities of computing life. Even your tax software is buggy, hospital software, and while were about it, cars have mechanical problems, aircraft have software problems (and have crashed because of them) and pharmaceuticals have "side effects" (or bugs as we in computerland call them).
And, believe it or not DAW users have their own bugs due to poorly implemented preconceptions about what should work, what shouldn't, what hardware works with what software and their misconceptions that because software does not do what THEY want it to do (and not what it's designed for) that they always blame the newest piece of software that they bought in a hurry for things going blooey! Not reading the readmes and manuals are a common bug too.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by nSpaas »

Against my usual better judgement, I installed and almost immediately integrated C8 into several fairly large film projects that were already underway. (Naturally keeping a working 6.5 install online as backup - I own 7 but never liked it).

In a nutshell, I'm having a great time. A few niggles, but for dropping right into the trenches, C8 is working like a star!

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by curteye »

nSpaas wrote:In a nutshell, I'm having a great time. A few niggles, but for dropping right into the trenches, C8 is working like a star!
Word!
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by silhouette »

characterstudios wrote:
silhouette wrote:characterstudios you don't seem to be making much sense to me. When people say wait for the demo, they are meaning that the demo is usually released when the major bugs are sorted. Which kind of knocks a hole in your second argument.
I must have read and understood some of these posts differently/wrong then:
curteye wrote:Why not just wait a lil while for the 'free' demo version and see if that works for you?
and
bantam wrote:It pays to wait for the demo while one works out from reviews and reports what new bits of hardware might be needed to make it all work.

(After which Bantam also states that if you use Cubase prior to the demo being out, you're just a beta tester).

That said, if we really have to wait until a software demo is out until the software is usable, then Steinberg should label their software "Beta" when selling it prior to that. BTW, I made that point too, that Steinberg probably are waiting for the software to be stable before releasing a demo.
silhouette wrote:Your first argument is undermined by the fact that all those users have a perfectly workable alternative on their machine already. Inconvenient and annoying even, but hardly a deal breaker when these issues will get sorted. If I had wanted to go will Pro Tools I'd be spending more money than I would like for something that looks a lot worse and gets even more complaints and the plugins cost more. Logic, a glorified Garage Band? No thanks! I'll stick with Cubase and I guess a lot of others will.
That's exactly my point though: Sure we'll stick with Cubase. But I made the second point under the assumption that some people here said: "Wait for the demo", of which my interpretation is different than yours (based on the examples I quoted).
silhouette wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm not altogether happy but I can live with it for a while because I know the alternatives are a) worse b) going to cost me more money c) having looked at and used the competition (with friends who use them) I don't like them.
Same here, I love Cubase, I'm able to work with/through the issues reasonably well. But it doesn't take away that it feels that this one shipped really early, and that IMHO Steinberg should be more honest about dot zero releases being "early availability"/"Beta" (which I think will only be appreciated by the community).

It would be something if companies that sell cars, or planes, or pharmaceutics, or food, or... would be releasing a product onto the market as "the real thing", while it's actually not ready for release. That would not be accepted. So why are there so many people on this forum saying that's acceptable for a piece of software?

Regards,

characterstudios
I think we are coming from a similar place. The problem here is that there really is no alternative to Cubase which is kind of where the problem lies. The demo is not out yet and they would be daft to release one that has some of the problems that have been reported thus far. There is a general feeling that Steinberg is relying upon the loyalty factor. I would agree with this. Having said that there are a large number of users who state that they are having very few issues. One on this page.

If I look back to my experiences with 6 and the constant crashing and BSOD - I certainly would not want to go back to that. Weirdly 6.5 is held up as the acme of Cubase. Go figure!

I have said before that someone from Steinberg should acknowledge the dissatisfaction and respond with their side of the story. Too often these days when there is an issue companies or politicians prefer to try and weather the storm when all is needed is an acknowledgement of the situation and a plan in place to deal with it.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by J-S-Q »

themarqueeyears wrote: I really feel for the Steinberg production team, every time they release a new version of Cubase it's like flipping Ground Hog Day on this forum.

"Man, I'm back on the previous version - even though I proclaimed the previous version to be the worse release ever 18 months ago"

Cubase Pro 9 will come out - and yep, you'll hear it .... " This is terrible I'm rolling back to Cubase Pro 8.53 - SB have really lost it this time!"

Ground Hog Day I tell you.
So true. lol.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by curteye »

Aloha guys, just to chime in.

IMHO it all really comes down to the number of negatives
vs the number of positives 'financially' realized at Steiny/Yamy Headquarters.

Other than on this forum we users really do not know those specific
positive vs negative numbers.

But that being said, we CAN all make a difference.

And it is easy, just vote with your wallet.

Keep in mind tho' that 'wallet voting' can be kinda cruel and ironic.

Reason being:
it seems there were enough 'yes wallet' votes from the C7/7.5 release
for Steiny to go ahead and release C8P.

And regardless of how you now feel about C8P,
if you have already purchased C8P,
you have already voted 'yes' for the next version.

And the cycle starts again.

Good Luck!
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by Jalcide »

Phaeleh wrote:I concur.

Whilst I'm loving a lot of new features, the fact it crashes every time I try and bounce anything made in the previous version is beyond annoying. I'd had no issues with previous updates, and only installed as was supposed to be having a bit of a break over xmas, but I'm in the middle of finishing demos for an album, and was really excited about finishing it with some of the new tricks in Cubase 8, but it's become apparent that's highly unlikely.

I may have to try the fresh install idea, but considering my machine has only ever had Cubase, Ableton, Soundforge and Audiomulch installed on it, with no internet connection, it's one of the most basic setups I've seen, without years of messed up registry to complicate matters, I'm not convinced that would help as much.

I've established that big projects run better if I load a small cubase file first. The makers of my PC have also suggested that a lot of issues are in the graphics card, (Steinberg have really stitched people up by making something far more suited to an unreleased OS), and recommended upgrading the graphics cards to something like the new AMD Radeon R7 (min 260 version), but I've seen people with similar cards complaining that they could only gain a stable system by removing these cards and just using basic graphics from the motherboard.

Would definitely be interested in peoples thoughts on this. I want to love this software so much, but when your management and label are telling you to go back to the older version cause you're *quiz* off 24/7 and haven't submitted any music for a month, there's definitely something up!

I would stay away from the new "Disable Track" feature, it's been confirmed to cause crashes during freezing and Render In-Place, for many (which are solved by enabling any disabled tracks). That might solve your problem, there.

I agree with your assessment and don't think a Windows reinstall will help.

The only real video card issues (if it's a modern video card) I'm aware of are Waves plugins with the newer Nvidia drivers. If you have Nvidia (or buy a new Nvidia card) I'd highly suggest using March 2014 drivers (they available on Nvidia's site) -- if you use Waves.

Looking forward to your new tracks!

Cheers.

Update/Edit: March 2014 Nvidia drivers (not 2013)
Last edited by Jalcide on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by greggybud »

jaslan wrote: Meanwhile, there are tons of users who are having no significant issues.
Would you agree that Cubase is the most feature rich DAW on the market? If you agree, would it also make sense that it would be the DAW with the most issues/bugs/broken things year in and year out? So why is it that these tons of users have no significant issues?

I would guess the majority of Cubase users are casual users whos production/recording goals are fairly basic, and probably could use any DAW to complete their audio goals. For Steinberg, casual users is where the big money is at. So yes, there are tons of users (the majority) who probably have no significant issues. With that said, should the minority of users just accept this vicious cycle that happens every time with a poor .0 release and then better .5 release? While the cycle is understandable if we accept this cycle as normal, I think it will only get worse in the future.

At some point, this cycle goes beyond your personal boiling point. Personally I thought the new mix console in C7 with all it's GUI and sizing problems, plus releasing ZERO key commands for the new mix console went past my threshold. They never should have released it half baked, but they did and in doing so many stayed behind at C6.5 and others found another DAW that better suites them. Did that new C7 mix console at that time attract professional users or new users who were simply impressed with the console eye-candy?

There is a minority of users who use Cubase daily and use professional tools...things like....MCU. MCU was broken at the introduction of C7 fixed within a short time, and once again broken at C8. I don't think this is something overlooked by the beta testers. Steinberg released C8 with full knowledge MCU did not work. If Steinberg wants to attract pro users, they can't keep doing this! These problems are very important. Key commands are very important. A focus on workflow and core functions are very important. These basic things should work with a .0 release if they want to attract every-day users and seduce frustrated PT subscription users.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by shanabit »

Foghead wrote:What were these guys thinking? Releasing this with so many problems. You do know some people do this for a living and cannot afford to deal with all the problems that exist with this software. There are tow many issues to even try to list them. Simple functions like render in place are worthless. Export audio mix down is another. Get it together or refund our money or something until it is ready for a public release. I do not like being used as a tester.
This is funny to me. When you purchased Cubase you did in fact sign on as a BETA tester.
What PRO in his right mind would even load up a .ZERO version of a DAW and expect no problems?? Ive been on Cubase since SX1, it's been the same with EVERY release. SX1,SX2,SX3, C4, C5, C6, C7 and now C8. Carry on :roll:

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by tex »

7.5.3 for me, C8 is parked for the time being. all clients happy here.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by characterstudios »

curteye wrote:...if you have already purchased C8P, you have already voted 'yes' for the next version.
For sure, it's called "curiosity killed the cat" :D
The thing though is, that people will start voting with their wallet. For me personally, this has been the release that feels most hurried. If Steinberg do it like this a few more times, I might become less curious to what's up with a new release. And even though I might then buy the new version by the time it's on version dot two or so, that does mean for Steinberg that the cash comes in later, which will change the funding dynamics of their development process.
silhouette wrote:I have said before that someone from Steinberg should acknowledge the dissatisfaction and respond with their side of the story. Too often these days when there is an issue companies or politicians prefer to try and weather the storm when all is needed is an acknowledgement of the situation and a plan in place to deal with it.
100%. Hence my suggestion to be more open about the dot zero release being a beta. I'm open for alternatives too, as long as it makes it more transparent.
bantam wrote:If you don't know about software then you won't know what I'm talking about. If you expect software, any software, to be bug free then maybe it's time to bone up on a few realities of computing life. Even your tax software is buggy, hospital software, and while were about it, cars have mechanical problems, aircraft have software problems (and have crashed because of them) and pharmaceuticals have "side effects" (or bugs as we in computerland call them).
I don't think I stated that software should be bug free at release, check out what I wrote? However, it is my feeling that this release feels more hurried than others, and I've gone through a good few by now. That the current state of Cubase 8 Pro makes me feel it's closer to beta than gold... However, Steinberg sell it like a gold release.
I'm in "computerland" too, and I can tell you that in my part of the land, this release would have made heads roll.
And while the software that provides me my day-job is mission-critical, it's not life-critical... but for life-critical items like cars, planes, pharma, I think that it's safe to assume that the 'depth' of testing is orders of magnitude larger than Steinberg have ever undertaken.
However, even in non-life-critical items I'm sure that consumers seem to expect less of a piece of software than say a half-nice sweater (like one at the same price as the upgrade from 7.5 to 8.0). If that would come with an obvious defect, most of us would bring it back to the store. Another example would be that steak in the restaurant that you ordered medium-rare, but you got served well done... are you going to chew through the buggy piece of meat, or are you going to send it back?
So, that's the point: I ordered Cubase 8.0 Pro (not Cubase 8.0 Pro Beta), and it doesn't feel finished. No, I don't need to get a refund, and I know that Steinberg will fix the large majority of the multitude of niggles that make it feel closer to beta than gold.
bantam wrote:And, believe it or not DAW users have their own bugs due to poorly implemented preconceptions about what should work, what shouldn't, what hardware works with what software and their misconceptions that because software does not do what THEY want it to do (and not what it's designed for) that they always blame the newest piece of software that they bought in a hurry for things going blooey! Not reading the readmes and manuals are a common bug too.
Sure, but that wasn't the discussion. The discussion was that this release felt hurried.
bantam wrote:You want that shiny new suit? Off the peg often does not fit. You have to wait for made to measure or adjust it yourself.
Cubase will never be made to measure (although it's a highly configurable piece of software), so that's a bad comparison. Cubase should fit off the peg, that's what I expect when I buy the product that's not marked as beta but at times feels close to it.
bantam wrote:The car's not fast enough? No use ringing the maker? Take it down to the machine shop and soup it up.
EVERYTHING has bugs.
A car being slower than the advertised speed is a 'bug' if you want to call it like that. There's consumer protection for that type of stuff.
If the car is equally as fast, or faster than the advertised speed, but not fast enough to your liking, that's not a bug, it's an enhancement that the user would like.
In my case, Cubase feeling more like beta than gold is like the first case, not the second. I hope you meant that too, if you meant it more like the second case, then your definition of 'bugs' is a strange one in my part of the computerland (I'm in the computerwelt area myself :D ).
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by characterstudios »

shanabit wrote:This is funny to me. When you purchased Cubase you did in fact sign on as a BETA tester.
I'm pretty sure I did not do that, but let me know if I missed something?

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characterstudios

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by Bantam »

Sure, but that wasn't the discussion. The discussion was that this release felt hurried.
I don't see any more new DAW bugs than usual, less if anything are being reported.
If you say Cubase Pro was not ready or hurried then that's just an opinion to those who have their systems going and they don't see anything specific. Others are not telepathic.
IF you have a specific bug then report it in the proper place. This is ok for initial report and steam-letting but if it's not specific it's not going to be attended to very quickly.
And if non-specific complaints go on and on with no clear goal other than to rant it tends to get old rather fast.

You say problems with the MCU. (I think, if it wasn't you mentioned it, someone else did) Have you taken it up in the Issues department? There's a case for "General" becoming specific after a time.
POGOTP.
i7 3.20gHz; 16gig ram; Win 8.1; Asus z87-k mother.

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DLearyUS
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by DLearyUS »

quote - New versions have to be treated with caution. I wish this advice was a sticky for new users though.
(they would not make sales)
quote - It pays to wait for the demo while one works out from reviews and reports what new bits of hardware might be needed to make it all work.
(they would not make sales)
quote - If you pay for the program before the demo is ready or you have tried it, sorry, but you are a beta tester.
(then it should be priced at a beta introductory price AND labelled as such passing a beta off as RTU is outright lying)
(but then again they would not make sales)

the best and honest solution is START DEVELOPMENT EARLIER HAVE IT READY FOR THE PROJECTED RELEASE DATE!

if you must release beta at least be honest enough to say so. customers can then make an informed decision.

i feel i have been duped by the company i trusted. are customers supposed to realize and accept as default that new versions are not ready/stable/working? if that happens then:
(they definitely wont make many sales)

i have no problem sticking with 7.5 and will wait in future to buy any upgrades as im sure many will after this fiasco.
(early adopters im sure are just people who havent learned to wait till its somewhat debugged. reminds me of the old saying "its like taking candy from a baby") well......babies learn fast!

your reputation is the foundation of ANY business and should be protected at all costs.
Cubase v10.5 Pro / Win10-64 Pro/ Tascam FW-1884+FE8+FE8 / ART TubeOpto8 Xpander

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BasariStudios
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by BasariStudios »

This was my path to Cubase 8 Pro:
1997or98 Cubase VST 3.7> 2000 Cubase VST 4 24> 2001 Cubase VST 5 32> 2003 Cubase SX3
>2007 Cubase 4> 2011 Cubase 6 then 6.5> 2015 Cubase 8 Pro...so you see, somewhere i
waited even between few complete new Versions and it was all the same as now.
So no Demo or Waiting helps, its Steinberg, lets accept the facts...it was always Beta
even after 14xxxx releases and versions. As soon as they fixed it the new Beta came in.
Of course...paid Beta.
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate (1.4.009), Murano, Titanium, Magenta 3, Navy, Ochre and RED EQ.

Getalife2
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by Getalife2 »

Simple question.

If C8 could have used "3 to 6 more months in the oven" to be ready (in whoever's opinion), why didn't you just wait 3 to 6 months to get it?

Just use what you had for a while and get C8 later. If you think it's "always a beta", just let others "beta test" it and tippy toe in later. Impotent ranting is really not going to fix anything. It's just not.

Sorry for those having major issues. Happy for those (which is most) who are not!

Use what works. Get stuff done.
N10.3 - i7 5960X/32 GB at 4 GHz Win 7 Pro 64bit - 2x RME MADI - 3X UAD-2 Quad

Bantam
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by Bantam »

Seems they're selling an awful lot of "beta" versions to buyers who must KNOW they're beta versions because they've bought so many "beta" versions before apparently.
Now I don't mind NEW users complaining but the phrases "Once bitten....." and "Won't get fooled again." come to mind. How come some still are? (getting bitten and fooled) Again and again. Five minutes after release.

Step AWAY from the BUY button! Drop the credit card! Put your hands on the keyboard and use the version that works. :D You KNOW it's a paid beta because "that's Steinberg" so best let fools like me buy it first.
If you have never had a version that works why is this the fifth version you have bought? :mrgreen:
i7 3.20gHz; 16gig ram; Win 8.1; Asus z87-k mother.

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Paul Bryce
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by Paul Bryce »

All the early buyers just have a software form of G.A.S. ( Gear Acquisition Syndrome ) :)
Near the Rockies, Alberta

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