Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

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BasariStudios
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by BasariStudios »

The funny thing is, my Cubase is the most stable now, i don't have problems with stability,
my biggest issues are usually related with Graphics...some Freezes and almost never crashed.
Another issue is the performance with RealTime Peak always Peaking Jumping Spiking.
The problem is, we are doomed, no matter how bad it is we love it and Stiny knows this and
they will play with us for years to come...its like a Toxic relationship with a girl...the worst
she gets the more you love her.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by cmaffia »

characterstudios wrote:
cmaffia wrote:That's not how software development works for any Commercial software company...
I hope that one was meant sarcastically, there are plenty of examples where it is the way how it works for commercial software companies.

One example most of us have experience with: Microsoft has been doing public technical previews of Windows, SQL Server, Office, etc. for ages now. These technical previews are also pretty extended from the perspective of time - while still fitting in the development schedule. Oh, and the previews tend to be free too. (That's basically solving all of the complaints and suggestions on this thread at once, hahaha).
In terms of being commercial, Microsoft are pretty much up there? (And yes, they too will sometimes try to release to an artificial deadline like Xmas).
Long story short: Of course it's possible to extend time and number of testers for commercial software...

Anyway, 8.05 is reasonably stable for me now. Stable here means without some of my most used plugins, with regular crashes when closing Cubase, and with that horrible menu-bar that defies all Windows UI conventions. We're more than 2 months after initial public (commercial) release, and it looks like that for the next minor release that might fix some of the ongoing issues will only be after 3 months or more, so for me this version still very much feels like it was released early.

And yeah, gotta love the fanboys who have to defend their favorite product to no end, users that have a different opinion be damned, it's gotta be their fault, and their expectation of paying for a product that's ready for them is obviously completely unrealistic.
To put it in perspective: I'm sure the fanboys will also eat their favorite dish at their favorite restaurant, even when the food is under-cooked, and be as happy as when the food is cooked properly. They're just such an accepting bunch of people - except when the table next to them complains about the food being under-cooked, then they'll tell them it's their fault, because everything is fine for them. For sure, that's what they'll do.

Kind regards,

characterstudios
Microsoft? The business application world is a different beast altogether. Can you back up your claim and verify whether or not Pro-Tools or Logic's development is any different than Cubase's? If you can, I stand corrected! If I am not mistaken, you can apply to become a Cubase BETA tester by filling out an application form. If you meet the requirements you can be part of the solution.

And for the record, I am not a fanboy nor am I doubting that others are having legitimate issues for various reasons. If Cubase was universally broken as some have suggested, I would be complaining too but that's not the case. It should also be noted that there are many experienced users with complex setups who are not experiencing any of the major issues that some are reporting.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by themarqueeyears »

+1

Cubase 8.05 is without doubt the best version of Cubase ever to have excited the electrons of my CPU.

By the time we're on 8.1 - I'll be close on zero issues.
By implementimg Steinbergs work arounds I'm managing to run crash free.

My only request going forward for 8.5 is undo in the mixer.

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by roel »

It's certainly a lot better then the 7.0 release and the workflow changes with 8pro are very big. But, on the other hand, for me the biggest improvement is/was the usage of disabling of intrument tracks combined with render in place. Combined with the new possibilities delivered by asioguard 2 this could be a topnotch workflow enabling the possibilities to do a lot more with the program then ever before, even with less powerfull machinerie. But i 've had to send in several serious issues with the new workflow, in such a way that there is reason to believe that it wasn't thouroughly tested. And i have never seen this kind of 'super'crashes on cubase ever. It isn't frequently, and there are workarounds, but it seems that writing down the cpr, or rendering something, in certain conditions, really corrupts the program. These are severe bugs, that should not be present on a public release. That is just in contradiction with the claim of being a professional product. But i have no doubt they are looking in to those issues for the moment too.

kind regards,
R.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by characterstudios »

cmaffia wrote:Microsoft? The business application world is a different beast altogether. Can you back up your claim and verify whether or not Pro-Tools or Logic's development is any different than Cubase's? If you can, I stand corrected! If I am not mistaken, you can apply to become a Cubase BETA tester by filling out an application form. If you meet the requirements you can be part of the solution.
You did not say "business application", you said "commercial software development".
Also, Windows is hardly a business application? I agree that PT and/or Logic are also not doing a wide-scope public beta, but I have insufficient information to know how similar or different Avid & Apple's design processes are.
That said, I did say that MS was one of the many examples. Closer to home ("creativity" software), Adobe did release free/public beta versions of Photoshop and Lightroom. So of course it's possible to have wider-scope and free beta. Might actually get you some more customers in the longer term too!
In regards to applying to become a beta tester for Cubase, sure you can do that by filling out forms. Buying the initial version of Cubase 8 is a more expensive but quicker way :D
cmaffia wrote:And for the record, I am not a fanboy nor am I doubting that others are having legitimate issues for various reasons.

Understood. While I did not say you were a fanboy, thanks for clearing that up.

Regards,

characterstudios

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by BriHar »

Perhaps it needs to be pointed out that Cubase (as well as all the others) is a niche product and certainly not in the same boat as Windows. Niche software rarely has the luxury to do extensive beta testing. Niche software also includes programs like CAD, CAM, Engineering and many more professional applications, and their development cycles are all very similar, and none have a particularly long beta phase if any at all, and yes, the end user is ultimately the actual Field or Beta tester. Get used to it. ;)
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by characterstudios »

BriHar wrote:Perhaps it needs to be pointed out that Cubase (as well as all the others) is a niche product and certainly not in the same boat as Windows.
Agreed.
BriHar wrote:Niche software rarely has the luxury to do extensive beta testing.
Disagree. It's a matter of priorities and cost management.
BriHar wrote:Niche software also includes programs like CAD, CAM, Engineering and many more professional applications, and their development cycles are all very similar, and none have a particularly long beta phase if any at all, and yes, the end user is ultimately the actual Field or Beta tester. Get used to it. ;)
Eh no, not going to get used to it, need to keep on working to improve this. :D
For many critical pieces of engineering software, the end-user is never the beta-tester, it gets delivered near 6-sigma levels of quality... Agreed that the delivery of such quality is not due to extensive UAT or beta-testing, but rather through investment in internal unit-testing & QA, and that drives up the cost of said software, and probably to a price-level that would not competitive for Cubase.
That said, I'm pretty sure that Cubase has a much larger user-base then the niche applications mentioned above... so, there really are opportunities for wider scope beta program.

Regards,

characterstudios

Regards,

characterstudios

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by girlili »

jaslan wrote:Every single time they release there are a few people who have issues and say that it was not debugged and that they are unpaid beta testers. Blah, Blah, Blah. It is the same every time. Meanwhile, there are tons of users who are having no significant issues. You just are not hearing from them because they are using Cubase and not the Steinberg Forum.
you know,
the Daw world is like the apple vs microsoft world, and like the sony ps4 vs xbox world.
then, there are 3 groups of people:
the first, is actually the guys who are using the apps, and don't have time to come to some forums, to criticize or praise this or that app-feature-brand
then, the second group, is people who actually feel really *quiz*, because they can't use 100% of the app or hardware they have paid for, and they try to post their issues on forums, because those issues do really upset them
and finally, you have the 3rd and worst group: the fans, who will come to forums, will talk trash about the competition, will praise their favorite brand or app like no other, and will NOT tolerate anyone who will dare saying something bad about their beloved brand or app.


and that 3rd group, i don't really like it. because they are so happy with their brand and product, that they are ready to forget and forgive 1 or 100 issues their app might have.
an example, the apple fans.
iphone 1, 700 or 800$. a fantastic powerful supercomputer. but it couldn't send MMS.
but again, fans were there, saying "ohhh, who needs MMS, anyway?". apple's answer: "ohhh, don't worry, the iphone 2 will have mms".
then, iphone 2. it now comes with mms features. but no frontal camera. fans answers: "ohhh, who needs a frontal camera to to videocalls, anyway?". apple answer: don't worry, prepare another 700 bucks, the iphone 3 will have a frontal camera.
then, iphone 3. frontal camera is there, but no high dpi screen. but don't worry, prepare another 700 bucks, iphone 4(or whatever model that comes later) will have a high dpi monitor.
etc etc.
iphone, ipad, idevices: want to use it a 1st time? you need itunes. of course, fans are totally ok with that.
you travel abroad, 10000 km away, and want to delete a photo from your iphone? sorry, no "delete" option. you need to go back home, make another 10000 km, connect your idevice to itunes, delete your photo from there, and you return to your country, 10000 km away. again, fans are absolutely ok with not being able to delete a simple file.
fans will defend their brand, and will forgive everything, to justify their purchase, and to make their brand or product look fantastic. even if that means giving away its freedom (flash on websites), or using a service or device, with 1000 flaws or issues.

the same applies here, on steinberg, or any other daw maker. many people are here, they live with their 1000 bugs, issues, missing features, whatever, because they love the brand, and they don't even tolerate someone who will dare saying something negative about their app.
i have known and used cubase since the vst version, have purchased sx versions and pro versions, like the 6, 7, 7.5 and now 8. i am a music lover, and i play with my synths, and cubase, for fun, as an hobby, and not for a living. but i remember paying like 1000 euros to buy cubase sx1. i had to do a lot of sacrifices, save tons of cash, to be able to buy it. it's just normal that, if i find something doesn't work, well, i will say "this doesn't work".

now, i imagine all the people who use cubase, as their main tool, and their need a perfect working tool. and they buy an upgrade, upgrade that is supposed to correct countless bugs, and bring new features, and suddenly, they find themselves without being able to work, to do their job, to complete the work their bosses are waiting for. OF COURSE, those guys will feel *quiz*. and of course, they will come here, as it is the only place where they can talk about their issues. i would be really mad, if i was having some severe issues with cubase, as my main tool, and if i reported it here, or made a "rage comment", or rant, or whatever, some people came and told me "ohhhh, you know, only you is having problems with this and this, you know? because most people are happy with what they have".
huge lol, isn't it ?

for example, i was forced to deactivate the asio guard 2, as my cubase would start randomly. today, it takes 20 seconds to open, tomorrow, it may need a second reboot, or 3 minutes to start. or it may not start at all.
i have a 3770k well-configured computer, with stable maudio drivers, and i know alot about computers. my computer and I aren't the issue. it's cubase 8 that is not working as it should.
another thing, on my 24" monitor, i am using a 125% scaled desktop, so i can see everything bigger.
well, there is a huge display bug, on the main menu bar, on the top, with fonts overlapping, fonts popup, etc.
again, cubase 8 is not working fine.
and please, don't tell me that, among probably 1 hundred employees at Steinberg, 100, maybe more, maybe less, don't tell me NOBODY has noticed, before the release date, that a windows 8 GUI at more than 100% causes that display bug in cubase 8. FOR SURE, somebody has noticed it.
FOR SURE, somebody, among all the users, engineers, press, web, ALL users, there are at least 1 guy that has increased its windows GUI size, to 125 or 150%. FOR SURE, that bug was reported. SO WHY was cubase released with that huge bug ?

because, in most companies in the world, a rule applies. 80-20. helpdesk support resolution rate, issues, etc, 20% of troubles are perfectly tolerated, if 80% is OK.
so, why that display bug wasn't corrected and cubase 8 was released with it? because probably, they said "well, maybe only 1 or 2 users out of 100 will notice that bug. we're not gonna spend 2 weeks, just to correct it."
am i wrong?

why, when i change the language, in cubase, many of my settings are lost or modified/reset ? again, don't tell me that @ steinberg, nobody ever changes Cubase language from deutch to english, then, to french, etc etc. again, "ohhh, only a small % of people will change their language, no need to spend another week to correct some eventual bugs".

why, when everybody has tons of fast ram, why isn't cubase sort of prefetching most menus, in the application ?
why isn't cubase "pre-loading" some commonly used menus, etc, into RAM, so when we click, ex, on insert plugin, or browse preset, we have to wait 5 seconds for the preset window to appear, when it could ALREADY be loaded into ram, and be opened in 0.1s? why isn't there STANDARD CONTEXTUAL MENUS, at least, for the 20-30 last used presets, plugins, etc, so we can select a plugin or a preset, in 0.1s, instead of waiting... and waiting...
Steinberg, is is SO HARD TO IMPLEMENT, CODE, and THAT WOULD RADICALLY CHANGE THE APP UI, that it is impossible for you to ADD a contextual menu, say, for the inserts, or "insert track type" menu, so we CAN right click on the tracks list, on the left, and select ,in the contextual menu, say, PADSHOP vsti, or RETROLOGUE vsti, instead of "add track-midi track-instrument select-wait a few extra seconds-browse menu-go to retrologue-double click on retrologue"...... WHY CAN'T WE HAVE a contextual menu, and, in 0.1seconds, we can open a retrologue instance.. ?

why do we have all those huge menu bars, that eat up so many precious vertical pixels ? there is the main app bar, then, we have the project bar: another bunch of lost pixels. then, we may have the mixer, on the bottom, or the midi-wave editor: another menu bar, with a bunch of pixels. those 3 menu bars alone basically eat up 10% of my vertical available space.
WHY, steinberg, WHY not making BORDERLESS windows, or maybe just a thin line ?

Why, Steinberg, why not displaying a true CPU usage window, where we can see which plugin is eating the most RAM, which plugin crashes at a particular moment, etc etc? why not having a window, with all the project analysed, and then, we can see that at 1.23minutes, there is a big ram spike, or, at 0.35 minutes, the cpu goes up to 100%, etc etc. are we afraid of showing the cpu consumption of Cubase ?


these last lines are features, not bugs. but i have many other bugs i won't care about posting, here.
because i, alone, or with a few other guys, we don't represent the "all cubase users", and whatever we might say, it isn't important. and because i would go mad, if i spent 30 minutes, describing a bug, etc, and a cubase fan came in and said "ohhhh, stop your rant! cubase works wonders for most people, stop whining now, and GTFO". when i read most issues people have, sooner or later in the thread, there is people that don't bring any solution, but just post something, to say "ohhh, you must be the only one having that bug, it works like a charm for me, etc etc". the famous 3rd group of people...

all this to say, yeah, if i can be mildly frustated with my cubase 8, because there are core things that don't work, or must be deactivated, or the computer "must be restarted", so it works again, i understand that there are people who feel kind of cheated, and feel forced to express their bitter feelings, their hate, their sadness, because, hey, cubase isn't a freeware, right ?
there are like 10 fantastic DAW's in the market, and people choose cubase, for some reasons. of course, after spending their cash, they have the right to expect their purchased app WILL work flawlessly. but when these people notice, see, feel that some features and bugs, they weren't correctly implemented, they aren't bug-free, and they were kind of rushed, to fit some crazy holidays deadlines, and, above everything, when those same people use cubase for a living, as their main tool, they have the right to say a few things... even if those things don't please the manufacturer, or the active fan club.


now, back to cubase 8. i love this thing. i really do. but there are times, i feel like wanting to go to germany, grabbing the steinberg big guys, and tell them "hey, are you aware of this, this or this? do you really listen to complaints and requests, or the only thing that counts, is what features the other daw's have? what the hell are those "SE"- light versions? do you know we are paying 600 euros for cubase, and it's not fair to give us light padshops, etc versions? what feature requests are you going to take into account, for next version? etc etc"


and all the fans: if you are happy and accept all cubase issues and bugs, don't come and protect cubase with a shield and sword, anytime someone finds a bug, and creates a new thread, to talk about that bug.

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by mroekalea »

:cry: :D :lol: :mrgreen: >> wait for 8.0.10 << :idea:

I think both sides needs some light.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by BasariStudios »

I actually split them in 2, the ones who know only how to lunch the App and then come
here praise Steinberg and the ones who are Professionals and come here and point
Steinberg the reality, the bugs and all the bad stuff.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by Wolfie2112 »

Geez, I must be one of the elite! Just scored two projects using both C7 and C8 on my Mac running Yosemite....couple of random crashes, but everything is fantastic. I use a 15" MacBook Retina (with two additional monitors), and a PC slave running VEPro 5.

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by bigboi »

Not sure that 2 random crashes can put you in the fantastic category. 2 crashes on 2 projects is definitely less than stellar. I use Cubase and live it by the way...not trashing it. Just trying to keep everything in perspective.

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by BasariStudios »

Wolfie2112 wrote:Geez, I must be one of the elite! Just scored two projects using both C7 and C8 on my Mac running Yosemite....couple of random crashes, but everything is fantastic. I use a 15" MacBook Retina (with two additional monitors), and a PC slave running VEPro 5.
That IS a lot of crashes actually.
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by Wolfie2112 »

bigboi wrote:Not sure that 2 random crashes can put you in the fantastic category. 2 crashes on 2 projects is definitely less than stellar. I use Cubase and live it by the way...not trashing it. Just trying to keep everything in perspective.
Seriously, that is not a fair statement. I have more crashes in PT11 and Logic X lately than I ever did in Cubase over the years. By projects, I mean feature length productions, each with over 100 cues and 300 instrument tracks. So....two crashes is just a fart in the wind really. After more investigation and testing with a tech, the crashes were NOT a result of a Cubase issue, but a Yosemite itself, which was since resolved. As another poster mentioned, there are thousands of professional users of Cubase that you never hear from....that are running it successfully. There will ALWAYS be bugs in every DAW, but I have not experienced anything show-stopping with Cubase over the years, up to and including C8. Perhaps those with these "serious" bug issues should look at their actual systems and stop blaming Steinberg. Do you see Zimmer and his team on here complaining? Maybe it's a bad PC build? Peripherals? Who knows, but C8 obviously runs great for many users, and probably the majority.

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by vespesian »

characterstudios wrote: And yeah, gotta love the fanboys who have to defend their favorite product to no end, users that have a different opinion be damned, it's gotta be their fault, and their expectation of paying for a product that's ready for them is obviously completely unrealistic.
To put it in perspective: I'm sure the fanboys will also eat their favorite dish at their favorite restaurant, even when the food is under-cooked, and be as happy as when the food is cooked properly. They're just such an accepting bunch of people - except when the table next to them complains about the food being under-cooked, then they'll tell them it's their fault, because everything is fine for them. For sure, that's what they'll do.

Geeze, I sure hope you're not putting me in that category - while I might think I get why Steinberg develops their products the way they do, I don't like it (esp. re certain Fxpansion products being sub-functional, & macros, uh, not working) at all.

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by silhouette »

Well I guess Steinberg are finally realising the perils of market driven development. The forthcoming maintenance update it not now forthcoming until mid March. I guess things have got complicated by the sheer number of issues to solve. A lot of the less critical issues will be shunted until the next update.

My question is how could they frack up the click? Surely to goodness this must have been thrown up by testing. Then the question is why would you release knowing that one of the most important functions is not fully functional?
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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by characterstudios »

vespesian wrote:Geeze, I sure hope you're not putting me in that category - while I might think I get why Steinberg develops their products the way they do, I don't like it (esp. re certain Fxpansion products being sub-functional, & macros, uh, not working) at all.
Hey, it's not important what category I put anyone in :D You believe in what you want to believe, and with a bit of luck we can have a good discussion about it :)
That said, I see no reason to apply that category to yourself, you've been partaking in the discussion, not trying to shut it down? If I have any gripe it's with folks that come in here and tell us not to have this discussion because "all is fine for them".

Regards,

characterstudios

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Re: Cubase 8 Pro was not ready for public release

Post by BasariStudios »

characterstudios wrote:"all is fine for them".
If you give a broken Airplane that does not even start to a NON Pilot, of course everything will be fine for him.
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