Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

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lights
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by lights »

It's been 3 days since the OP last said something yet we keep this thread alive out of some morbid curiosity. I say we let this thread die unless the OP replies with something coherent.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by k8stribe »

Grim wrote:I've missed k8sribe's odd postings the last couple days......hope he/she hasn't got bored with the game already.

Isn't "A licence to C6" a Bond movie? :shock:
Confusing incoherent post? You must not understand simple English nor have you read my post correctly. I've been using Cubase since the first version of VST. I have songs I've written recorded and produced in movies, PlayStation commercials and several action sport videos. I've never had this issue before and was simply asking if anyone else hear has had the same issues. If I wanted some kook to insult me I would just walk into my living room and talk to my wife. Now go off and play with your techno loops and let the people hear trying to do real audio recording get back to work.

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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by k8stribe »

donnietmp wrote:Hey ralphie, the problem is happening because of Windows 7 audio connection.....Had that "phase" and muddy washout" happen recently to our system here with the Layla 8 in and outs also......If you go into windows "sound" or audio panel setup, for some strange reason, it may be set at "surround sound". Unclick this, and all of your stereo outs on your soundcard should pop up. Select your main outs, beit 1&2 stereo pair, etc..This will clear that problem up....
OK so for those hear that are actually trying to help,
After running several trouble shooters in windows and researching post on Asus updates I did a flash repair and it did find audio related issues. I'm not quite sure exactly what it resolved but after listening to a few mixes it did sound a bit better but not quite there yet. In the earlier versions of VST and SX you were able to soft clip and push your recordings a bit. I started to solo each individual track in SX then in C6. I noticed some phase and harmonic distortion issues on some of the soft clipped tracks in C6 that I didn't hear in SX3. The meters in SX were much bolder and getting too far into the red was obvious. In C6 the meter settings weren’t set quite as bold and the colors faded into the red and I didn't realize how much hotter the tracks were in C6. I deleted and re-recorded a few of the tracks and exported my file with zero effects on the main stereo out bus. I imported the song back into the mastering set up in C6 and used Waves ultra maximizer, PSP Max Pressure and a slight stereo imager and burned both versions to CD. They both sounded much better. I went back to few other recordings I did in C6 and after re-setting the meter colors I noticed my snare was a bit hot. I replaced the snare via MIDI and couldn’t believe the difference that one slightly pushed track made on the entire mix. After the replacement I had the punch and clarity back that I was missing.
In VST I had to do my mixdown then add my mastering plugs in Wave lab post mix. By trial and error I was able to get pretty good results straight out of my mixes in SX3 and in didn’t have to master most of my heavy rock mixes. Going back to limiting my effects in my mix downs and post mastering them in wave lab or in the mastering set up in Cubase seeme like the way to go for straight audio recording in C6. Hopefully this was the solution and I can get back to work.
Thank you to those who had helpful suggestions.

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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by Grim »

Grim wrote:
I've missed k8sribe's odd postings the last couple days......hope he/she hasn't got bored with the game already.

Isn't "A licence to C6" a Bond movie?
Confusing incoherent post? You must not understand simple English nor have you read my post correctly. I've been using Cubase since the first version of VST. I have songs I've written recorded and produced in movies, PlayStation commercials and several action sport videos. I've never had this issue before and was simply asking if anyone else hear has had the same issues. If I wanted some kook to insult me I would just walk into my living room and talk to my wife. Now go off and play with your techno loops and let the people hear trying to do real audio recording get back to work.
k8stribe
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In your response here you have quoted me but then you're referring to someone else's comments so it's difficult to say who you are talking to. I'd hardly consider my comment an insult so maybe you meant to quote someone else but I will respond from my own point of view anyway so maybe you can understand why you are getting some unusual responses.

I have left some pretty helpful advice much earlier in the thread but you ignored it & just carried on asking other advice.....this is why some people...& not just me may have thought you were trolling....you haven't actually acted on any of the more useful advice being offered.

Even this & your last post that seems to bring the thread to conclusion is not particularly convincing me that this isn't some kind of wind up but giving you the benefit of the doubt I'm very pleased to hear you're doing so well with your music & that your problem seems to be finally resolved by using less effects & drum replacing your snare.

FYI, I've personally been using Steinberg since Pro12 on the Atari & although was a house producer in the late 80s & early 90s I didn't ever use techno loops nor do I now in in my indie guitar band recordings...they wouldn't really fit in.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by k8stribe »

Grim wrote:
Grim wrote:
I've missed k8sribe's odd postings the last couple days......hope he/she hasn't got bored with the game already.

Isn't "A licence to C6" a Bond movie?
Confusing incoherent post? You must not understand simple English nor have you read my post correctly. I've been using Cubase since the first version of VST. I have songs I've written recorded and produced in movies, PlayStation commercials and several action sport videos. I've never had this issue before and was simply asking if anyone else hear has had the same issues. If I wanted some kook to insult me I would just walk into my living room and talk to my wife. Now go off and play with your techno loops and let the people hear trying to do real audio recording get back to work.
k8stribe
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In your response here you have quoted me but then you're referring to someone else's comments so it's difficult to say who you are talking to. I'd hardly consider my comment an insult so maybe you meant to quote someone else but I will respond from my own point of view anyway so maybe you can understand why you are getting some unusual responses.

I have left some pretty helpful advice much earlier in the thread but you ignored it & just carried on asking other advice.....this is why some people...& not just me may have thought you were trolling....you haven't actually acted on any of the more useful advice being offered.

Even this & your last post that seems to bring the thread to conclusion is not particularly convincing me that this isn't some kind of wind up but giving you the benefit of the doubt I'm very pleased to hear you're doing so well with your music & that your problem seems to be finally resolved by using less effects & drum replacing your snare.

FYI, I've personally been using Steinberg since Pro12 on the Atari & although was a house producer in the late 80s & early 90s I didn't ever use techno loops nor do I now in in my indie guitar band recordings...they wouldn't really fit in.
I apologize if you weren't the original insulter, just trying to figure this new version out. The original advice was taken but was not the cause of my audio issues. It wasn't the effects causing the issue, like I stated it was trying to soft clip using a tape saturation plugin and it seems like the newer versions are more sensitive to being pushed. Had that same issue with Digital Performer years back. For some reason my stock fader settings were set up so the clip point was a blend of colors making it hard to see the meter pushing a bit too far in the red. Cubase wasn't signaling a clip with the red clip indicator like I was used to either. I'm hoping this issue is resolved as well. I have several projects I'm behind on, and I'm looking forward to actually learning how to use the new functions added since the older versions instead of constantly trouble shooting.

I was on this forum (cubase.net) consistently until a few years ago and this was the first time in 100's of post that I received a few insulting comments. I used to get a lot of PM's for Guitar recording tips back then. Times have certainly changed.

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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by lights »

For what it's worth, I believe you are completely barking up the wrong tree when you are mucking with the OS, BIOS, or firmware. None of these things have any part in how Cubase renders audio. Part of the reason people are befuddled by your posts is because you say changing these things cause slight improvement. That's not possible. (I will very publicly eat my words if it turns out I'm wrong).

1) ASIO doesn't use your system audio control panel. (I sure hope you're not using a stock PC audio card for your mixes)
2) your pro audio interface doesn't listen to the onboard sound settings

None of that comes into play at all.

Also when you choose to export an audio mixdown, the mix is completely created by Cubase. The system audio isn't involved. So I think you are barking up all sorts of wrong trees. And the descriptions of what worked before and isn't working now are vague enough to lose everybody.

That's why people are throwing up their hands and saying just reinstall widows from scratch, because that will wipe everything and get you back to Cubase factory settings, not because windows is the culprit here.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by k8stribe »

lights wrote:For what it's worth, I believe you are completely barking up the wrong tree when you are mucking with the OS, BIOS, or firmware. None of these things have any part in how Cubase renders audio. Part of the reason people are befuddled by your posts is because you say changing these things cause slight improvement. That's not possible. (I will very publicly eat my words if it turns out I'm wrong).

1) ASIO doesn't use your system audio control panel. (I sure hope you're not using a stock PC audio card for your mixes)
2) your pro audio interface doesn't listen to the onboard sound settings

None of that comes into play at all.

Also when you choose to export an audio mixdown, the mix is completely created by Cubase. The system audio isn't involved. So I think you are barking up all sorts of wrong trees. And the descriptions of what worked before and isn't working now are vague enough to lose everybody.

That's why people are throwing up their hands and saying just reinstall widows from scratch, because that will wipe everything and get you back to Cubase factory settings, not because windows is the culprit here.
According to Asus tech support and running their trouble shooter there was a change in my computers audio settings causing a problem with the ASIO drivers. Others are having similar issues in Windows 7 that I am with their audio interfaces. I'm using an M-Audio Delta 1010 which I have used for years trouble free. I do get an error message from time to time in C6 at start up "Supported ASIO drivers not available". I have to restart Windows to get it to work. I also get frequent freezes after exporting audio. Running repair from the BIOS seems to have helped out a bit combined with lowering the input signal on some of the drums. I do still have problems with audio playback in Windows media and trying to watch tutorial videos on YouTube. If I run the simple trouble shooter in W7 I get a default audio conflict. Some say it’s an issue with the M-Audio drivers, but it sounded great before Windows and Asus did an overnight update. That’s when all of my troubles started. I had a great sounding mix one night before I went to bed, opened it up the next morning to add a few more tracks and it sounded completely different. The only changes made to the computer were the updates. I use tape to mark settings on my board for every new project I start and keep notes of all of my settings on my external components as well as my settings in Cubase. Don’t know what else it could have caused it.

Another thing that I noticed was my 1T external back up is almost full? less than 20 G's left. My main drive only has 200GB's out of 750 of data. Seems to be a backup issue with W7 now as well.

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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by lights »

What others are having similar issues? This sounds absolutely befuddling. I haven't heard of any of this before on this board or Cubase.net.

When you say things like:
Running repair from the BIOS seems to have helped out a bit combined with lowering the input signal on some of the drums. I do still have problems with audio playback in Windows media and trying to watch tutorial videos on YouTube
I get completely confused. Lowering the volume of the drums? Really? Have you tried the simple test of just opening a known good WAV file you didn't create? Like maybe ripping a CD to WAV on a different PC and loading it into Cubase? I think you need to take your own music out of the picture.

You need to isolate the issue. Take that audio interface and connect it to another PC. Or take the PC and use a different interface.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by k8stribe »

lights wrote:What others are having similar issues? This sounds absolutely befuddling. I haven't heard of any of this before on this board or Cubase.net.

When you say things like:
Running repair from the BIOS seems to have helped out a bit combined with lowering the input signal on some of the drums. I do still have problems with audio playback in Windows media and trying to watch tutorial videos on YouTube
I get completely confused. Lowering the volume of the drums? Really? Have you tried the simple test of just opening a known good WAV file you didn't create? Like maybe ripping a CD to WAV on a different PC and loading it into Cubase? I think you need to take your own music out of the picture.

You need to isolate the issue. Take that audio interface and connect it to another PC. Or take the PC and use a different interface.
I have done all of the above. This isn't my first rodeo. Again I have songs I recorded In TV commercials, Movies, Videos ect.... that I have opened up on this computer. They went from sounding the best the ever have on this same computer to sounding bad the day after the updates. I've tried un-installing the updates, tech supoort in Windows ans Asus, everything. Songs I load into SX3 and export if I recorded them or not sound better, why is the question I've been trying to resolve. If you go to the M-Audio forums, Windows 7 forums there are several referances to data, programs personal files vanishing after Windows 7 updates. There are also several reported audio related issues as well reported after updates. I lost 60+ hrs of work and no recovery software was able to locate it. I'm pretty confident it is a Windows 7 issue.

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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by lights »

I'm sorry. I really want to help. But even though this isn't your first rodeo, what you say has me befuddled. The statements you make mix and match all sorts of stuff that should be completely unrelated.

If you have done all the things I suggested why haven't you shared the results? What happens when you keep everything else the same but replace the PC with a different one? That was one of my suggestions. What happens when you replace the M-Audio interface with a completely different one?

What happens when you open a known good WAV file from a professionally produced CD in Cubase or Sound Forge or Wavelab (through the existing audio interface)?

You are making it almost impossible for anyone to help you.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by k8stribe »

I don't think you are reading all of my responses. I've done everything you have mentioned except for using a different audio interface. I know what these songs and others I have tried should sound like.

Let me try to explain it one more time. It's very simple. My 4 year old custom built DAW crashed. To replace just the MB and CPU with what I had (Asus A8V W/ Opteron 220SE) it would have cost me almost as much or more than the temp system I purchased.

After setting up the new system everything sounded great, that includes recordings old and new. Mine, yours, and theirs everything was running smooth with no problems. I finished my first draft on a new project getting close to a final mix then since it was getting late I decided to add a few more voicing tracks in the morning with fresh ears. I went to bed, woke up to my system restarting after a Windows and Asus update (I forgot to turn off auto update, My Fault) the system re-started. My song, including all of the recorded audio files several of my plugins and program files, shortcuts, tweak settings ect.... were gone. I called first Microsoft support which they were no help and Asus which was actually worse than the Microsoft support. I was told to try this that the other thing and nothing worked. I ran recovery software with no luck, my restore points were gone,60 + hours of work not including the week of setting the computer up, loading my software and plugs, drivers ect. gone.

After being down more than a month I was so pumped to get started recording again I didn't burn an image disk and I didn't have a chance to back up my new work. Once the update happened the system never sounded the same. Before I started over I opened a few of the previous files I had on a backup drive and nothing sounded anything close to what it did before the update and my problems started. So here’s the problem in a nutshell; It sounded "great" before the update, sounded "bad" after. There's no grey area in-between.

Go on the M-Audio forums, Sonar forums and several other Windows 7 forums and type in audio problems after windows 7 update. You will see several posts similar to mine. Also type in files and programs deleted after Windows 7 update. I’ve done hours of research with no luck in finding a solution. Microsoft and Asus techs both recommended starting over fresh and turning off auto updates. I was trying to avoid another week of downtime.

After contacting Asus support via email (I was told this was the better choice vs phone support) this is the instruction I was given:

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for contacting ASUS Customer Service.
For your problem, please try to do system repair from advanced boot option.
1. Access the advanced boot options by pressing F8 before system boot up.
(If you press F8 then the boot up device selection window pops up, please select the HDD then press F8 immediately again.)
2. Enter Repair your computer, choose the first option, the tool will try to fix the problem automatically.
3. If not work, please enter the system restore function; try to restore your system to an earlier point in time.

If it doesn't work, please try to do the system recovery via the hidden partition,
1. Press F9 during boot up.
2. Press Enter to select Windows Setup.
3. Select System Recovery in next window.
4. Follow the onscreen instructions to complete the recovery process.
Please back up all your important files before system recovery.

After doing this it found problems with the audio and asio drivers. I chose the auto repair function. It did help a bit but it’s still not 100%. My last few test mixes do sound better. I’m not sure if it’s from the repair or from removing the soft clipped tracks. So here we are.

How can I post results here? If someone wants to PM me their email I can attach a few mp3 samples of what I’m trying to relate. I’m not trolling or phishing just trying to get back to recording less all of the frustration.

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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by lights »

You still didn't answer any of my questions in that response. You ate focused on what you THINK happened but that may not be what actually happened. Until you respond to each of the questions in my prior message there's nothing anyone can do to help you.

Without any other info I would say completely flatten your PC and reinstall a fresh copy of windows and Cubase. Don't repair. Install like it's a brand new PC.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by k8stribe »

Wi Fi,
We have a wireless printer in the same room. HP software would run maintenance tasks and enable the Wi-Fi from my computer to the printer. I disabled it and rebooted and voila so far the phase issues especially present while recording seem to have disappeared. I read a post in the M-Audio forums about a problem similar to mine and it turned out to be Wi –Fi related. I started to look more into Wi-Fi and recording issues and found several post on Pro-Tools and other recording software sites. I'm hoping this problem is solved. Never had Wi-Fi on my old custom built DAW’s so didn’t know there was an issue.

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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by Sheldy13 »

Interesting that you mention wireless HP because I had similar problems with their software on my previous system(XP sp3). I refuse to install their software on my new DAW. I'd rather train a monkey to draw anything I need printed rather than risk having any HP printing software on my main DAW now.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by lights »

I have a networked HP printer connected to my DAW. No problems here.

WiFi causing phasing issues within a DAW? That sounds so crazy I can't even begin to fathom why that would happen.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by matjones »

Something very similar happened to our old keyboard player when he upgraded hi dell to win7 64Bit... turned out his dell chipset wasn't compatible with the delta and win7 64 combo.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by lights »

But supposedly, according to the OP, he tried all of the troubleshooting suggested to him and used old projects that were known to be good. Had he done an ITB mixdown (Export->Audio Mixdown) and tried on other speakrs (as he said he did), the audio card incompatibility would have been removed from the equation and it would have sounded perfect. There is no way WiFi would have had any effect on his ITB mixdown or a CD he burned from a known good project.

None of this thread makes any sense.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by jbw »

It would have made more sense if he would have just posted audio examples of his mixes, so we can hear the problem not just read it.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by AndrewW »

If you are hearing slight phasing then you might want to check your I/O Connections.
Hit F4, click on the Output tab - check that you have an output selected there.
Then click the Studio tab and check if you are using Control Room.
In my experience whenever I hear slight phasing I check if by accident I'm not hearing audio from both Control Room and Main Output. You should use only 1 of them - never both.

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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by lights »

But I suspect that wouldn't affect an Export -> Mixdown, especially since the OP stated that he listened to the mixes on other systems, etc.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by Split »

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I really love your tiger light

and that's neat
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I really love your tiger feet

I really love your tiger feet

your tiger feet
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well alright.
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by matjones »

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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by JMCecil »

Canon print drivers definitely make your exports tighter with more punch in the Mids...

This is up there with the threads about why MS lossless doesn't sound as good as Apple lossless. Or, the extended discussion of how anything downsampled AND bit reduced is "lossless" to begin with.

Soon to be favorite threads .. why 24bit 256kbps HD audio is more HD than 16bit 256kbps HD. I mean there are 8 more bits, how much more HD could you get!
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by k8stribe »

jbw wrote:It would have made more sense if he would have just posted audio examples of his mixes, so we can hear the problem not just read it.
I offered to send some samples to someone if they would send me an email address I could attach a few mp3 samples of the issues I was having. Again I've been a Cubase user since 1998 and have never experienced this problems. I tried everything I could think of. I started from scratch cleaning every input/ output, re grouping my cables and snakes’; making sure everything was properly connected. Tried deleting and re-installing my software and drivers, you name it I tried it, but there was this slight phase issue that would not go away and it affected the quality of the recorded instruments on this computer and the playback of every song no matter the source. Can’t explain why but thinking back the printer wasn’t set up when I first fired this computer up and I had no audio related issues then.

My wife needed to print some docs and I set up the printer and Wi-Fi on her laptop. After a Microsoft and Asus update I started having the issues as I explained in previous post. I did start to get HP pop ups and download prompts on my computer (I didn’t get these before the update) and ignored them. Last week my wife printed something from her laptop to the printer via Wi – Fi while I was recording a guitar track. I could hear random cellphone conversations coming through my headphones and took them off and noticed the printer was in the middle of print job. Didn’t put two and two together. Then I found the post on the M-Audio forum relating a similar issue to what I was experiencing to Wi – Fi. They were running the same OS and using the same PCI card and drivers as me. So it could possibly be a compatibility issue with M-Audio and Win 7. Or a conflict between the PCI card when the WI – Fi is enabled.

k8stribe
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:39 pm
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Re: Mix's Sound Like Mud In C6

Post by k8stribe »

JMCecil wrote:Canon print drivers definitely make your exports tighter with more punch in the Mids...

This is up there with the threads about why MS lossless doesn't sound as good as Apple lossless. Or, the extended discussion of how anything downsampled AND bit reduced is "lossless" to begin with.

Soon to be favorite threads .. why 24bit 256kbps HD audio is more HD than 16bit 256kbps HD. I mean there are 8 more bits, how much more HD could you get!
Cool, I'll ditch my Waves Mercury plugs and my other 7 to 8k in plugins and give the Cannon drivers a try. Happy to be a source of your amusement.

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