Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:49 pm

Vocalpoint wrote:
DTSR wrote:I'm not really following the logic of this, it seems absurd
Well - it seems to me that the logic is now changed from:

"Pay a full upgrade fee when each new major version is introduced" '

to

"Pay a smaller upgrade fee EACH time new functionality is added regardless a major or point version"
Huh?

Timo said: "Plus, in advance of Nuendo 5.5, we will release another big maintenance update including
64bit support on Mac + some other improvements (of course without any costs)."

Look at it from a different angle; pretend you're a Cubase user for a second: They pay for new needed features going from v5 to v6, and then we get those new features for free. See?

Part of this is semantics. And because it is Steinberg can solve your "problem" by changing what they call it, you wouldn't gain anything monetarily and practically, other than sleeping better at night. Say they understand the problem with charging for v5.5 with let's call it C6 features. So to overcome that problem they simply don't include them in v5.5, and give the update for free, but with a few Nuendo specific features. Then when N6 shows up those C6 features are included.

What did you gain? Nothing, other than the eye-sore that the naming scheme is is gone.

If they want to charge for new functionality they can and will.
Vocalpoint wrote:Rather shrewd move by making each point upgrade cost that much smaller - it appears to Joe User that his cost is better - when in fact - Steinberg is collecting a little less cash but at a greater frequency - which has to have something to do with the bottom line...
So far all we know is that there's going to be at least one more unpaid N5 update, and one N5 PAID update with C6 features. We don't know the above at all.
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by TechBytes » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:55 pm

Lydiot wrote:Personally, I just think it's silly to call it a fee that covers a cost of a download, when all your other updates have the same cost (why wouldn't they). So clearly they want to get paid for the features, and so they should call it a paid update. I don't see a problem with that.
+1
Only problem I see would be if there are outstanding issues (bugs) that aren't resolved prior to this paid update.
There were unresolved bugs in C6, I can't see this being any different , if anything I see a wider pallet.

Re all the hoopla about paying for the .5 upgrade, guys, you don't get it do you, its not a .5 upgrade , its is in fact an upgrade to seq 6. Steinberg brought this on themselves by segregating the version numbers to try and create a sense of the 2 applications being separate entities , it has now come back and bitten them on the arse.. !!

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:26 am

TechBytes wrote:Re all the hoopla about paying for the .5 upgrade, guys, you don't get it do you, its not a .5 upgrade , its is in fact an upgrade to seq 6.
That's "sort of" what I was saying.
TechBytes wrote:Steinberg brought this on themselves by segregating the version numbers to try and create a sense of the 2 applications being separate entities , it has now come back and bitten them on the arse.. !!
Also what I was saying.

But really for us as consumers the only thing that matters is what we get for our money. Doesn't matter if it says 5.5 or 6.0 or "Ralph" or whatever.....
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by Fredo » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:10 am

Honestly, I fail to understand why some people get so carried away with pricing policy, and I am even more stunned by how they are lecturing a company about when, what, and -for what- that company is allowed to charge which amount of money. Pricing -of any product- is not determined by the clients’ wishes.

The pricing of a product is based on the manufacturing cost, marketing cost, demand, market, profit, and many more variables. Sure, pricing policy towards the client is part of that "formula", but it is not the determining factor.

The price a client wants to pay for a product is based on the economical value and the subjective value of a product.
For the sake of this example, let's assume that the update price will be 50€.
That is -if your business is really going slow- worth a few days’ work.
If there is one feature in N5.5 which makes life easier for you, which allows you to work faster, which avoids that you have to buy another plugin or application, then this is money spend in a clever way.

If there is absolutely no economical advantage in having N5.5, then this 50€ might be well worth the emotional value. It equals an evening out, minus the headache the day after. After all, you did buy that 42" TV set, you do drive a BMW and you do go to concerts, movies and football games ....


If none of both "benefits" does it for you, then it simply means that N5.5 is of no use for you. Don't buy it. Problem solved.

I bet that the cumulative cost of the internet connection, PC write-off, Power consumption and damage to the keyboard -due to the heavy typing-, which was needed to type all these complain-posts, already are way over 50€. But then again, it could be that strongly ventilating frustration is actually making some people happy. In that case, it's 50€ well spend.

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by DTSR » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:35 am

Fredo wrote:
If there is absolutely no economical advantage in having N5.5, then this 50€ might be well worth the emotional value. It equals an evening out, minus the headache the day after. After all, you did buy that 42" TV set, you do drive a BMW and you do go to concerts, movies and football games ....

Fredo
wow, you sure come of like a bit of ****** with this one, and it proves my point re:who this software is pitched at and why is costs so much more that Cubase.

I don't have a car, a tv, i don't drink alchohol, spend money wining and dining, go to movies, or sporting events, every single penny I have ever had went into my gear, and not because I want to make big bucks, but because I love what I do, and it's what I do 24/7, so I'm really not sure why you think it's an issue that some of us might question what's happening here with pricing.

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by Fredo » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:43 am

DTSR wrote: .... but because I love what I do, and it's what I do 24/7 ....
You proved my point. For you it's exclusively emotional value.
Nothing wrong with that.

Again, it's up to you to wheigh the update price against what you get in return.
Just like you have made the decision to not buy a car, not go to the movies, etc ...

And what you will get in return is unknown at this moment.
Will it be the C6 features and nothing else, or will there be more?
And what will be the update price?

Untill this is clear, most part of the discussions are just speculating and assuming.
That's the only point I am trying to make.

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by DTSR » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:58 am

Fredo wrote:
DTSR wrote: .... but because I love what I do, and it's what I do 24/7 ....
You proved my point. For you it's exclusively emotional value.
Nothing wrong with that.

Fredo
that's somewhat disingenuous, knowing where to spend one's money is a practical concern, there are other options, and it's getting closer to the time where I might have to chose one of them over the additional expenditure sticking with Nuendo incurs, not everyone is in this boat, perhaps very few, but that does not invalidate my concerns, and the forum is the place to air them.

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by Breeze » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:30 pm

Fredo wrote:Again, it's up to you to weigh the update price against what you get in return.
Just like you have made the decision to not buy a car, not go to the movies, etc ...
Fredo
The major problem with software is that you NEVER know what you'll be getting in return because 100% functional operation is never guaranteed (read any EULA). I've been using software for over 20 years and the main lesson I've learned is not to bother with version x.0 of any major program I work with. I need to work not debug, so I don't care to throw my time into bug tracking and fixing; I've done enough of that, thank you. That's also the main reason I chose Nuendo as my workhorse so many years ago: it's been the most reliable DAW in my stable. :)

My frustration with this discussion is that I'm still using Nuendo 4, waiting for 5.x to firm up, but now it looks like 5.5 is coming and now I'm wondering how long beyond that release it'll become stable. I'm figuring some time this autumn. Which means that by the time I upgrade over 2 years will have passed from the date of the current version of Nuendo I'm using. Now that's an unusually long time in this industry! (...like 2 operating systems and two generations of hardware developments...) However, the good news is that apart from a built-in surround reverb, N4 still meets most of my needs and is wonderfully stable. And I'm NOT getting C5 or C6 to palliate N4's deficiencies; enough of that BS.

Clearly there are differing opinions within Steinberg/Yamaha as well as the community as to how these products will evolve in the future. SB/Y has wanted to divorce Nuendo and Cubase for several years, while a small vocal minority (according SB's stats) wants these paths fused. I'm one of the latter: Nuendo was sold to me originally as the product line flagship with all features in and I never expected that to change.

I hope these issues will be ironed out sooner rather than later as a clear development strategy will go a long way towards reassuring SB customers about the company's long-term intentions and clarify its development paths. The indecision is doing more harm than good to SB's Nuendo customers, but clearly not to SB: there is no question that it has promoted the purchase of Nuendo AND Cubase licenses for those who can afford it, bolstering SB's numbers. But to me, that's a rather underhanded marketing strategy, as well as a source of more frustration.

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by etl17 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:10 pm

The issue is really simple at its core.

Customers need to be able to identify the "flagship" product of a Company at any point in time. Due to leapfrogging, the flagship label shifts between Nuendo and Cubase confusing and frustrating everyone who wishes to have all the features all the time.

Really simple problem to solve.

Just my $0.02
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by zvenx » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:13 pm

and if there is no flagship product?
I think SB has been trying to shy away from that....there are two product lines (well for DAWS)
one for music production and one for post production.
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by Vocalpoint » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:04 pm

zvenx wrote:and if there is no flagship product?
Then price Nuendo @ 799.99 and the flagship tag will quickly disappear. Sorry but the world always sees the most expensive product as the flagship. It's that way with virtually anything....

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:36 pm

Fredo wrote:I bet that the cumulative cost of the internet connection, PC write-off, Power consumption and damage to the keyboard -due to the heavy typing-, which was needed to type all these complain-posts, already are way over 50€. But then again, it could be that strongly ventilating frustration is actually making some people happy. In that case, it's 50€ well spend.

Fredo
You sure Steinberg wants to be associated with the above sarcasm?
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by Fredo » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:59 pm

Lydiot wrote:You sure Steinberg wants to be associated with the above sarcasm?
Please don't turn this into a political thing.
And to be clear: I stand behind every word I have written.

However, I also think that this handling fee is a bit ... euh .... clumsy ...

But that's the way it is. Actually, we don't know yet what we will get, and what it will cost.
It might be the best upgrade, the best value for money ever.
My point is that it's not the end of the world, and it most certainly is not worth the kind of overreacting, strong language and insults. When I look around me, when I watch the news, when I look at what I have to deal with everyday to keep my business running, when I look what I do and sacrifice for my family and friends ... really .... a small handling fee for my favorite -and most important working tool- is the least of my concerns. My apologies for not understanding your outrage, I just do'nt get it that such a simple thing can affect someone to such a degree.

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by Guest » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:18 am

don't you have a better thing to do? like music for movies, adr..anything like.with no arguements in between ;)

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by DG » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:06 am

Actually I think I agree with Fredo. I also have no problem in paying for extra features, no matter what the supposed version number of the software is.

I'm still on Nuendo 4 and have no plans to update to Nuendo 5, because it doesn't have any extra useful features for me. However, should this new update change that, I may well update.

FWIW I am not a believer in delivering any new features within a version cycle. I think that updates should be bug fixes only, and new features should only come with the new version. ;)

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by DTSR » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:43 pm

Fredo wrote:
Lydiot wrote:
I just do'nt get it that such a simple thing can affect someone to such a degree.

Fredo
sorry, this matter needs to be viewed in the context of an accumulation of "simple things" that Nuendo users have experienced, over the last few years, which have left us with a pretty cynical attitude towards Steinberg's customer relations policy.

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:34 pm

Fredo wrote:
Lydiot wrote:You sure Steinberg wants to be associated with the above sarcasm?
Please don't turn this into a political thing.
"Politics" again? Oversensitive much?
Fredo wrote:However, I also think that this handling fee is a bit ... euh .... clumsy ...

But that's the way it is. Actually, we don't know yet what we will get, and what it will cost.
It might be the best upgrade, the best value for money ever.
My point is that it's not the end of the world,
Great, we agree!
Fredo wrote:and it most certainly is not worth the kind of overreacting, strong language and insults.
Who used "strong language and insults"?
Fredo wrote:My apologies for not understanding your outrage, I just do'nt get it that such a simple thing can affect someone to such a degree.
Who are you talking to now? Are you talking to me?

Seriously, "Political thing", "Strong language and insults", "outrage"???

Seems to me that the only one here actually being political is you. I find that ironic.
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by Rustami » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:21 am

I have strong impression that there are people that like to make something out of nothing. Look, you have Nuendo 5 with some feature set you paid of. Also there is Cubase 6 with another feature set (version number is different!). Now, taking into account that many Nuendo users are annoyed by "leap-frogging", Steinberg decided to include version 6 features into version 5. So it's quite logical you have to paid some fee for new features! Nueno 5.5 can't be called Nuendo 6 as new features are not post-production oriented.
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by Matthias Adloff » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:59 am

Rustami wrote:I have strong impression ..... are not post-production oriented.
AMEN
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by MattiasNYC » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:47 pm

Rustami wrote:it's quite logical you have to paid some fee for new features! Nueno 5.5 can't be called Nuendo 6 as new features are not post-production oriented.
I agree.
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by Woodcrest Studio » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:28 pm

Matthias Adloff wrote:
Rustami wrote:I have strong impression ..... are not post-production oriented.
AMEN
LOL. Seriously? Not that I do ADR that much, but cant the new comping be a good advantage? I think so.

I am looking forward to the release. I just hope it runs better than Nuendo 5.1 as far as speed since N5 just seems sluggish, especially once the projects get complex. Seeing the variaudio issues people are having with Cubase 6 scares me and I hope this is sorted in the Nuendo 5.5 release. I never updated my Cubase licenses because of it.

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by TechBytes » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:30 pm

Rustami wrote: Nueno 5.5 can't be called Nuendo 6 as new features are not post-production oriented.
Bollocks !

Its seq 6 , thats all that should be required for a version 6 designation , all the rest is smoke and mirrors.

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by MattiasNYC » Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:22 am

TechBytes wrote:
Rustami wrote: Nueno 5.5 can't be called Nuendo 6 as new features are not post-production oriented.
Bollocks !

Its seq 6 , thats all that should be required for a version 6 designation , all the rest is smoke and mirrors.
What difference does it make to you if they call it 5.5 of 6 or 8 or 47?........ Don't you think you'll still get exactly the same thing for exactly the same cost to you?
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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by TechBytes » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:23 am

My response was directly to the assertion that it can't be version 6 !

Personally I couldn't care less what they call it , or what they price it at !

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Re: Cubase 6 features / Nuendo 5

Post by Rustami » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:52 am

LOL. Seriously? Not that I do ADR that much, but cant the new comping be a good advantage? I think so.
LOL. I am doing ADR a lot and using Lanes mode. Are you sure new compiling system suits this kind of job better? Did you try Cubase 6?
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