Please bring back channel type colors

General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics.
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DaDa
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by DaDa »

patcub wrote:EDIT : oh maybe you're talking about the project window ? What about the options available for the mixer ? any change in C6 from what you know ?
Hi patcub,
yes, tracks = project window / channel = mixer

AFAIK, the coloring for the mixer is pretty much the same as before.
edit : talking about the small color strip at the bottom

The V6 manual can be downloaded, but does not cover all new color options.
The others are mentioned in the V6 faq in this forum.

bye, Jan
Last edited by DaDa on Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by DaDa »

chase wrote:
L. A. Stone wrote:A simple solution would be :
Add an option, to colorcode the background of a track / mixer channel, with a 'type' color.
Everything else can stay as it is.
While that WOULD get away from the all-grey approach, it adds another step - first create the track/channel, then colour the channel.
I, for one, prefer just one step - eg create a group or FX channel and get the default colour automatically in the mixer.
(But additional colouring options could also be handy.)
No that's a misunderstanding.
The option would be, to keep it grey, or colorize the backgrounds of tracks / channels.
With the later it would be either predefined or a general one-time user setup.
So it would still be one step ;)

bye, Jan
Last edited by DaDa on Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by patcub »

DaDa wrote:
patcub wrote:EDIT : oh maybe you're talking about the project window ? What about the options available for the mixer ? any change in C6 from what you know ?
Hi patcub,
yes, tracks = project window / channel = mixer

AFAIK, the coloring for the mixer is pretty much the same as before.

The V6 manual can be downloaded, but does not cover all new color options.
The others are mentioned in the V6 faq in this forum.

bye, Jan
Thanks ! Let's hope SB will here us musicians/music producers on this request.

I would like an option to colorcode the background of the faders with any color we want, as well as the bottom of the channel strip with a different color from the fader. This way everybody would be happy and can colorcode anything the way they want it.

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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by DaDa »

early monday bump
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by patcub »

Let's hope we'll have an answer today.

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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by Robert Kooijman »

After having watched the Cubase 6 promo and NAMM video's, I'm even more convinced Steinberg just loves dark and grey. All staff and musicians dressed in black. Makes me almost long back to Atari days when there was still light in the tunnel...
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by Christian D. »

Hello...

Just some clarification. Removing the channel type colors was a deliberate decision in order to remove the "competition" between having track colors and another system based on channel types (there are also event colors, usually following your track colors if you do not color events individually). Besides, it added consistency the way Nuendo uses coloring. What you have now are track colors, which are always enabled (the former on/off switch was obviously difficult to find). You can control the systematic how new tracks should be colored in the Preferences (Editing>Project&Mixer). You can also use "Use Color for similar tracks" when opening the context menu on the track list, this way you can color e.g. all group channels with the desired color in one go. Channel types are indicated by icons (and your tracks are indicated by the colors you select for them), especially clear to see in at the bottom of the mixer. This streamlines the use of colors in a logical fashion.

Improving ways of spotting different channel- (or track-) types does not have to be necessarily achieved by just using colors, there could be also other ways we are thinking about. But for now that is the system we have implemented.

Btw, regarding "Steinberg loves to have everything dark and grey": Did you see, already with the release if Cubase 5.5, that you gained much more freedom to setup the general appearance in nearly every color tone, intensity and brightness you wish, incl. reducing the Workspace Brightness to nearly black? That was a request for years. Quite a bunch of people love to have the UI toned back dark and grey - so that the events itself can pop out much better - if you like it this way.

Best regards,
Christian
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by JMCecil »

Christian D. wrote:Hello...

Just some clarification. ...
Nice avatar! Signs, signs everywhere there's signs .... Can't do this, don't do that ..... :mrgreen:

Thanks for continuing the dialog. It is important to note the difference between the track TYPE and the track CONTENT. I want to make sure my problem is clearly defined.

In the existing layout I can see the group track easily in the mixer. It stands out.
For tracking..
I use shades of blue for vocals tracks.
I use shades of yellow for drums.
I use shades of green for guitars/bass.
etc...

On the Mixer ..
The easily identifiable group channel with the blue strip is the Vocal Group.
The easily identifiable group channel with the yellow strip is the Drum Group.
The easily identifiable group channel with the green strip is the Guitars/Bass Group.

If you take away the ability to easily SEE the GROUP channel, it will look like just another track of type vocal or whatever.

Notice you didn't remove the tag color in the track list! Why would that be? Oh crap, don't get any ideas. :o
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by Ian s »

Christian D. wrote:Hello...

Just some clarification. Removing the channel type colors was a deliberate decision in order to remove the "competition" between having track colors and another system based on channel types (there are also event colors, usually following your track colors if you do not color events individually). Besides, it added consistency the way Nuendo uses coloring. What you have now are track colors, which are always enabled (the former on/off switch was obviously difficult to find). You can control the systematic how new tracks should be colored in the Preferences (Editing>Project&Mixer). You can also use "Use Color for similar tracks" when opening the context menu on the track list, this way you can color e.g. all group channels with the desired color in one go. Channel types are indicated by icons (and your tracks are indicated by the colors you select for them), especially clear to see in at the bottom of the mixer. This streamlines the use of colors in a logical fashion.

Improving ways of spotting different channel- (or track-) types does not have to be necessarily achieved by just using colors, there could be also other ways we are thinking about. But for now that is the system we have implemented.

Btw, regarding "Steinberg loves to have everything dark and grey": Did you see, already with the release if Cubase 5.5, that you gained much more freedom to setup the general appearance in nearly every color tone, intensity and brightness you wish, incl. reducing the Workspace Brightness to nearly black? That was a request for years. Quite a bunch of people love to have the UI toned back dark and grey - so that the events itself can pop out much better - if you like it this way.

Best regards,
Christian
Thanks for clarifying the rationale behind the change, but the point a lot of people are raising here is that they rely on a combination of the mixer chanel colour and the channel type colour to manouvre around the mixer quickly. A small "channel type icon" at the bottom of the channel is not as effective for this.

You mention events and Nuendo, but events are not displayed in the mixer, so event colours don't impact on this issue. And continuity of appearance with Nuendo means nothing if you're not using both programs.

There is nothing wrong with the system of assigning colours to tracks per se. In fact, having Track colours permanently on seems in my view to be a sensible improvent. "Use colour for similar tracks" would also seem to be very handy. The issue is not with the handling of track colours, but with the change from using fader background colour to an icon for identifying channel type.

For instance, it would be a reasonable work flow to allign 8 different tracks of, say, percussion, side by side in the mixer window. This percussion group shares 2 or 3 send FX, and all of these 10 channels are routed to a group channel. By putting the fx returns and the group channel alongside the individual percussion track channels in the mixer you have all your faders that govern this group in one area of the mixer, which makes it very easy to work on this group. All 11 mixer channels in this group inc. FX returns and the group channel are coloured blue using the assignable track colours, allowing the constituent parts of the group to be quickly identified as homogenous.

Further differenting the channel types by fader background colour allows you to see very quickly both what is what -track, return or group, and also that all the tracks are pertinent to the same instrument group.

Yet another monochrome icon in or near the fader area, such as the channel type icon, does not give this information nearly as readily.


As regards the other point of the "dark and moody" Cubase colour scheme, that's not an issue - there is plenty of provision for changing the colour scheme if you wish to.
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by patcub »

Christian D. wrote:Hello...

Just some clarification. Removing the channel type colors was a deliberate decision in order to remove the "competition" between having track colors and another system based on channel types (there are also event colors, usually following your track colors if you do not color events individually). Besides, it added consistency the way Nuendo uses coloring. What you have now are track colors, which are always enabled (the former on/off switch was obviously difficult to find). You can control the systematic how new tracks should be colored in the Preferences (Editing>Project&Mixer). You can also use "Use Color for similar tracks" when opening the context menu on the track list, this way you can color e.g. all group channels with the desired color in one go. Channel types are indicated by icons (and your tracks are indicated by the colors you select for them), especially clear to see in at the bottom of the mixer. This streamlines the use of colors in a logical fashion.

Improving ways of spotting different channel- (or track-) types does not have to be necessarily achieved by just using colors, there could be also other ways we are thinking about. But for now that is the system we have implemented.

Btw, regarding "Steinberg loves to have everything dark and grey": Did you see, already with the release if Cubase 5.5, that you gained much more freedom to setup the general appearance in nearly every color tone, intensity and brightness you wish, incl. reducing the Workspace Brightness to nearly black? That was a request for years. Quite a bunch of people love to have the UI toned back dark and grey - so that the events itself can pop out much better - if you like it this way.

Best regards,
Christian
thanks for the clarification. Please understand that identifying channel types with icons is not enough for me. Nuendo users are potproduction professionals and those guys use consoles, or just do editing audio, that's why they don't care about the colors in the mixer.

The mixer is not grey, I can make it green or blue, right, but it's still one color for every tracks, do you understand how much harder my life will be when working with Cubase ? This is really a bad decision for me. I know the way I used to work with Cubase and now it's gone, and nothing was brought to compensate. Thanks. I see Loopmash has plenty of colors everywhere, and the mixer has only one color. Why ?

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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by Centralmusic »

chase wrote: When something's working well, why not leave it alone?

Or perhaps add options to improve it - not just take options away.

(Remember: Reverence greyed-out button, font change, tool-box changed from rectangle to linear array, ... you know the ones I mean ...)
+1 !!!
:(
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by DaDa »

Hi Christian, good to see you !
As I said, I can see the will to streamline the color system.

But, I can only repeat what already has been said.
We need a two color system, as there are two different and overlapping things,
that need to be distinguished in a clear and easy way :
'Instrument' types ( like drums, synths, vocals, etc. ) and track types.

The old system had that covered.
The new system needs to be enhanced, to give the same level of visual aid.

Like I proposed, bringing back the old channel background coloring as an option,
improved with track background coloring and user selectable colors, would be a step forward.

Thanks for listening, Jan
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by Chris Beuermann »

Hello Dada,

You don't have to repeat yourself. We have read it.

At the moment I can only repeat Christian
But for now that is the system we have implemented.
So there is still a door open ;)

Cheers,

Chris

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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by DaDa »

Chris Beuermann wrote:So there is still a door open ;)
Yep thanks, Chris.

Can not update, anyway.
Need transparent events.
( ooops ... sorry, just repeated myself, again :? )

off ... 'til next update ...
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by HowlingUlf »

Christian D. wrote:Hello...

Just some clarification. Removing the channel type colors was a deliberate decision in order to remove the "competition" between having track colors and another system based on channel types (there are also event colors, usually following your track colors if you do not color events individually). Besides, it added consistency the way Nuendo uses coloring. What you have now are track colors, which are always enabled (the former on/off switch was obviously difficult to find). You can control the systematic how new tracks should be colored in the Preferences (Editing>Project&Mixer). You can also use "Use Color for similar tracks" when opening the context menu on the track list, this way you can color e.g. all group channels with the desired color in one go. Channel types are indicated by icons (and your tracks are indicated by the colors you select for them), especially clear to see in at the bottom of the mixer. This streamlines the use of colors in a logical fashion.

Improving ways of spotting different channel- (or track-) types does not have to be necessarily achieved by just using colors, there could be also other ways we are thinking about. But for now that is the system we have implemented.

Btw, regarding "Steinberg loves to have everything dark and grey": Did you see, already with the release if Cubase 5.5, that you gained much more freedom to setup the general appearance in nearly every color tone, intensity and brightness you wish, incl. reducing the Workspace Brightness to nearly black? That was a request for years. Quite a bunch of people love to have the UI toned back dark and grey - so that the events itself can pop out much better - if you like it this way.

Best regards,
Christian
Ah, good enough! 8-)

Just remember, regarding "Steinberg loves to have everything dark and grey", that Freddie H used to complain about the Atomic Bomb White project window, so there you go ... :lol:
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by patcub »

Chris Beuermann wrote:Hello Dada,

You don't have to repeat yourself. We have read it.

At the moment I can only repeat Christian
But for now that is the system we have implemented.
So there is still a door open ;)

Cheers,

Chris
Thanks, let's hope you will hear us. We are human beings, colors are tools that are simple and effective to use for us humans, no need to reinvent something that works great for us. Instead you can concentrate your energy on other improvements.

I agree with Dada that being able to colorcode the bottom of the channel AND the background fader would be really awesome. Please make it an option at least.

I will stick with Cubase 5 until something as been improved in this crucial area. For now, bye bye cubase 6.

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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by chase »

We haven't seen C6 yet, but plenty of people have been able to point out how their workflow would be adversely affected by the loss of mixer-channel colours, and to explain why it's important to have the two simultaneous, interacting colouring schemes in operation.

The fact that we can do this without having seen C6 means that we could have identified the problem that eliminating the mixer channel would cause weeks, months (even years?) ago ... ie, if at any time SB had asked the users what they thought of the idea, the exact same response would have been available.

Chris's last post, "there is still a door open," suggests that SB is in fact willing to respond to a clear statement by users of the harm that the change will make to the utility of the software. That is very encouraging and I'm sure those of us who don't want to lose the colours are very grateful and pleased to know that the decision isn't set in stone.

But, may I respectfully, and sincerely, suggest to SB that - if you are indeed willing to respond to user feedback by revising an earlier decision - you might like to consider whether it would ever be more efficient to seek feedback about the removal of existing features before committing to the decision and implementing them in the software, rather than afterwards?

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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by MusicJohn »

I am suprised that there is not going to be an option to have an icon picture displayed at the bottom of the mixer and track on project page like you get in Sequel. Sequel has loads of icons covering numerous images/pics of instruments /track types etc and to place them against a track and mixer makes it really easy to identify what is what.

Having colours also helps....so here is hoping
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by Ian s »

MusicJohn wrote:I am suprised that there is not going to be an option to have an icon picture displayed at the bottom of the mixer and track on project page like you get in Sequel. Sequel has loads of icons covering numerous images/pics of instruments /track types etc and to place them against a track and mixer makes it really easy to identify what is what.

Having colours also helps....so here is hoping
There are track type icons in the project window already in C5, and It would seem that channel types are to be identified by an icon at the bottom of the fader strip in C6. However in the screen shots I have seen the icon seems to be on a grey field (even if this had a colour it would help, I don't know if it is grey by default/design?). There are already 12 icons in the area around the fader, so putting an extra one in this area is not going to be helping to "streamline the use of icons".
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by patcub »

Ian s wrote:
MusicJohn wrote:I am suprised that there is not going to be an option to have an icon picture displayed at the bottom of the mixer and track on project page like you get in Sequel. Sequel has loads of icons covering numerous images/pics of instruments /track types etc and to place them against a track and mixer makes it really easy to identify what is what.

Having colours also helps....so here is hoping
There are track type icons in the project window already in C5, and It would seem that channel types are to be identified by an icon at the bottom of the fader strip in C6. However in the screen shots I have seen the icon seems to be on a grey field (even if this had a colour it would help, I don't know if it is grey by default/design?). There are already 12 icons in the area around the fader, so putting an extra one in this area is not going to be helping to "streamline the use of icons".
I agree 100%.

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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by S4410 »

+1 for channel type colors
please bring it back.....soon
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by Midibass »

chase wrote:We haven't seen C6 yet, but plenty of people have been able to point out how their workflow would be adversely affected by the loss of mixer-channel colours, and to explain why it's important to have the two simultaneous, interacting colouring schemes in operation.
+ 1

I hope that Steinberg will take this into consideration
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Re: Campaign - Please bring back channel type colors

Post by DaveDaveDave »

JMCecil wrote:
DaveDaveDave wrote:I agree with everything that you say except - PLEASE don't take away my group tracks!
What is a group track, other than an audio track that can have lots of other audio tracks routed to it? In other words it's just an audio track.
And that source tracks can be folded up and tucked out of the way. I only have 8 faders, and I use groups tracks a lot for multi-mic'd drums once my drum submix is set, and then use master sends from the drum group to common effects, like a NY style compression or the main reverb track. I could do it all with sends... but this works much better for me than it did "in the before-time".
a kludge job while the borgz figured out how to get free routing. Which we still don't have.
Wouldn't you just like to send to any audio track?
Agreed about the kludginess, and yes, it'd be nice.
Wouldn't you like to be able to record the sum directly onto the group track?
[/quote]
Maybe to save some CPU, like freeze does - but otherwise I prefer to keep everything non-destructive. It is strange that you can't freeze a group track - but that you can Export with the "import as new track" option....
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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by Guest »

+1 colours and icon's

freq

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Re: Please bring back channel type colors

Post by Arjan P »

S4410 wrote:+1 for channel type colors. please bring it back.....soon
+1 here too, or - even better - make it optional.

Luck, Arjan
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