ASIO Guard discussion

For users of legacy Steinberg Cubase software
User avatar
mroekalea
Senior Member
Posts: 1382
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by mroekalea »

I think that on the early systems IRQ sharing would not be ideal, but for modern system it is ok, mine also shares many irq's for mutiple devices and I have no trouble at all (knocking on wood now)
Menoj

If nothing goes right, go left!


Win10, 3930K@3.2Ghz, 32GB, 2 x DELL u2713hm monitors (5120 x 1440), monitoring: ADAM P22A with SUB8, Audient ID14 & Behringer XR18 & Focusrite safire pro 26IO, Cubase 9.5 pro & artist 8.5, wavelab 9.5 elements, HSO, RND Portico 5033, CC121, Cubase IC pro, Halion 6, GA4, VG2, Arturia Analog Lab, TRacks CS grand + all custom elements, BFD3, Amplitube 3&4 (fender, orange, SVX collections, slash), Z3TA+2, HSO library, many Waves plugs, Plugin Alliance plugins (BX, SPL, Maag & Elysia), NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, AIR instrument expansion pack v3, Melodyne Studio v4, Soundtoys 5, Lexicon native PCM reverb bundle, UJAM Virtual Guitarist complete bundle, SoniVox Premium collection, Ezkeys upright & Vintage Fender Jazz basses, Fender Bassman 100, Markbass TTE500 , FMC Neo 2128 cab

CWS
Member
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:38 pm
Contact:

Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by CWS »

I did a little experiment with Asio-Guard. One screenshot with it enabled and one without. Screen shot taken on same song at approx the same time. Conclusion is my system runs better without it enabled.

With Asio Guard On.jpg
ASIO-Guard ON
(339.45 KiB) Not downloaded yet
With Asio Guard Off.jpg
ASIO-Guard Off
(341.08 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Windows 10 Professional 64 bit-Cubase 11 Pro-Intel Core i9-9900K-32 GB Ram-ASRock Z370 Gaming K6 MB-USB 3.0/-3.1-Firewire-AMD Radeon RX 560-Presonus FireStudio/Studio 68C/Presonus Studio Live AR16C-(4) Samsung M.2 SSD 1 TB

Guest

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by Guest »

I could be completley wrong. but i suspect this is because it is using spare CPU to render ahead parts of the track, so it would technically be using more power to render ahead..

Betamac
Member
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by Betamac »

I've found that certain projects with fairly low track count cause quite high spikes on my system.

yet I can load multiple instances of CPU heavy VST's and run loops though them with ease in a test situation and get to silly track count and my system copes no problem

wonder if certain plug ins are the culprit, I have found this to be the case on other occasions?
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite Interface - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

emotive
Member
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by emotive »

Some plugin's aren't compatible with ASIO Guard, and thus cannot be cached.

User avatar
HarrySound
Member
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by HarrySound »

Asio guard doesn't like hyper threading so if you have an i7 Steinberg would recommend you turn it off so it doesn't start splitting processes off from the main audio stream through the processor.
Personally, I leave it on.

CWS
Member
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by CWS »

I understand about the hyperthreading. Mine is turned off. For some reason my signature does not reflect that. (It shows off in my Steinberg) Thanks for the reminder though. :)
Windows 10 Professional 64 bit-Cubase 11 Pro-Intel Core i9-9900K-32 GB Ram-ASRock Z370 Gaming K6 MB-USB 3.0/-3.1-Firewire-AMD Radeon RX 560-Presonus FireStudio/Studio 68C/Presonus Studio Live AR16C-(4) Samsung M.2 SSD 1 TB

lights
Member
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by lights »

That's worrisome ... Especially the overload indicators.
-darren
music: www.lightsfadelow.com
follow lights fade low on facebook


i7 980x 18GB RAM; ProFire2626; Win7; everything x64

User avatar
HughH
Member
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by HughH »

Hyper Threading OFF is still Steinberg's recommendation?

I thought that had changed a while ago . . .
Nuendo 10, Pro Tools Ultimate 2019
i7 5820 Asus x99 Deluxe 64 Gig Win 10 Home, Dual Monitors RME Digiface PCIe
Dell XPS 15 7590 Laptop i9 (10th Gen) 32 Gig Win 10 MOTU 8Pre-ES
i7 920 Asus P6T 12G Win 7 Slave Machine
MCU Pro plus 2 Extenders (24 Chn)
X-Touch Compact for various stuff
Blackmagic Decklink Studio w/27" Monitor
UR22

CWS
Member
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by CWS »

I have not read anywhere yet Steinberg's official recommendation on HT with CB 7. I have done experimenting with it on and off and found that Cubase runs more stable for me with it off. Still can't figure out why my signature doesn't show the same signature I have set up in My Steinberg ?
Windows 10 Professional 64 bit-Cubase 11 Pro-Intel Core i9-9900K-32 GB Ram-ASRock Z370 Gaming K6 MB-USB 3.0/-3.1-Firewire-AMD Radeon RX 560-Presonus FireStudio/Studio 68C/Presonus Studio Live AR16C-(4) Samsung M.2 SSD 1 TB

Dave
Member
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by Dave »

The Steinberg Knowledgebase article about ASIO Guard now seems to say its better to enable Hyperthreading with Cubase 7.

"We usually recommended to turn off Hyper-Threading whenever performance issues occur. If applicable, this recommendation is still valid for sequencer versions older than Cubase 7 or Nuendo 6 (most Windows systems offer this option in the BIOS setup, whereas Hyper-Threading cannot be disabled under Mac OS X).

With Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6 we've introduced ASIO Guard. Depending on the project setup, this feature reduces the real-time audio processing load significantly and thus reduces the risk of audio dropouts caused by Hyper-Threading. For details on ASIO Guard, please refer to this article.

Enabling Hyper-Threading while ASIO Guard is active usually has a positive effect on the overall system performance and is the recommended combination. Only in rare cases - e.g. with projects using many "live" tracks - Hyper-Threading can still lead to performance issues. Again, please refer to the dedicated ASIO Guard article for details."

Cheers
David
Cubase 11 Pro, CC121, AXR4T, Lynx Aurora 8 and 16 LT-Thunderbolt, Mac Pro OSX 10.14.6 (Mojave) and Catalina OSX 10.15.7
Wavelab 10, Groove Agent 5, HSO, Halion 6.4, Grand 3, Spectralayers 7 Pro, VST Connect PRO 5, Halion Sonic 3, Cubasis for iPad,

External Outboard Pres and FX hardware via Analog and AES digital connections.

Keep smiling its later than you think.

CWS
Member
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by CWS »

Interesting...I will have to enable HT and see if that makes any difference. Also I was reviewing the plug in information and noticed Halion Sonic SE has a (No) by it meaning you can not enable asio guard for it. Does that make sense?
Windows 10 Professional 64 bit-Cubase 11 Pro-Intel Core i9-9900K-32 GB Ram-ASRock Z370 Gaming K6 MB-USB 3.0/-3.1-Firewire-AMD Radeon RX 560-Presonus FireStudio/Studio 68C/Presonus Studio Live AR16C-(4) Samsung M.2 SSD 1 TB

User avatar
HarrySound
Member
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by HarrySound »

Yeah that makes sense.
That knowledge base thing is strange. I swear thats not what I read a couple of weeks ago.......exact same article.

I believe I also read that Asio guard only works on plugins that support it or something like that.Also the moment you "monitor" a track it instantly turns asio guard off for that track and back on again when you toggle "monitor" so I guess it can not be used on anything "real time" ??

CWS
Member
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by CWS »

My question is why doesn't asio guard support halion sonic se
Windows 10 Professional 64 bit-Cubase 11 Pro-Intel Core i9-9900K-32 GB Ram-ASRock Z370 Gaming K6 MB-USB 3.0/-3.1-Firewire-AMD Radeon RX 560-Presonus FireStudio/Studio 68C/Presonus Studio Live AR16C-(4) Samsung M.2 SSD 1 TB

emotive
Member
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by emotive »

CWS wrote:My question is why doesn't asio guard support halion sonic se?
The plugin must also support ASIO directly as well..

lights
Member
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by lights »

emotive wrote:
CWS wrote:My question is why doesn't asio guard support halion sonic se?
The plugin must also support ASIO directly as well..
What does that mean?

I thought it was because multitimberal instruments (those with more than a single output) weren't supported. But I can't recall if Halion Sonic SE is multitimberal. I know most of the instruments I use (Omnisphere, Trillian, Geist, Tremor, and Kontakt) all don't benefit from ASIO Guard. Which is very unfortunate.

(I don't think Steinberg's bundled synths/samplers sound good enough to bother using which is why I haven't used Halion Sonic SE enough to recall if its multitimberal.)
-darren
music: www.lightsfadelow.com
follow lights fade low on facebook


i7 980x 18GB RAM; ProFire2626; Win7; everything x64

emotive
Member
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by emotive »

Some plugins only support VST, while others are supported as an application of ASIO.

lights
Member
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by lights »

emotive wrote:Some plugins only support VST, while others are supported as an application of ASIO.
Please provide references. I don't understand that at all. While I understand why a VST would support ASIO directly in standalone mode, it doesn't make sense to me that a VST would directly access ASIO when used as a plugin in Cubase. Also, I'm not aware of any such plugins. What the benefit would be. Or where Steinberg said that a plugin must directly support ASIO to benefit from ASIO Guard.
-darren
music: www.lightsfadelow.com
follow lights fade low on facebook


i7 980x 18GB RAM; ProFire2626; Win7; everything x64

emotive
Member
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by emotive »

lights wrote:While I understand why a VST would support ASIO directly in standalone mode, it doesn't make sense to me that a VST would directly access ASIO when used as a plugin in Cubase.
While most plugins are happy for Cubase to calculate their latency timing, some require a direct link into the ASIO transport stream.

I don't have any references, only knowledge. 8-)

If you wish to know more, try reading the documentation for the VST and ASIO SDK's

Warning: SDK documentation can have mind warping (or mind numbing effects) :geek:

lights
Member
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by lights »

So you don't have a reference to where Steinberg said that VSTs must support ASIO directly for them to be supported with ASIO Guard?
-darren
music: www.lightsfadelow.com
follow lights fade low on facebook


i7 980x 18GB RAM; ProFire2626; Win7; everything x64

emotive
Member
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by emotive »

lights wrote:So you don't have a reference to where Steinberg said that VSTs must support ASIO directly for them to be supported with ASIO Guard?
No I don't, but if you think about it in a programming sense, it makes sense that regular VST's would allow the DAW to order them in the audio (transport) stream whereas others might require more specific guarantees as to when their events will be "fired".

-steve-
External Moderator
Posts: 9691
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by -steve- »

I have been trying to understand this too...
from:
https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/kn ... and-nuendo

(I like the little bit of Deutsch sprinkled in there :) )
the knowledgebase wrote:ASIO Guard Limitations

Only audio channels and VST Instruments including the plug-ins utilized on those channels support the ASIO Guard technology.
Please keep in mind that by default no VST Instruments are calculated in the ASIO Guard path. You can enable ASIO Guard for each VST Instrument individually or disable it for certain VST plug-ins in the VST plug-in information window.
The "ASIO Guard" column shows the current status for each plug-in.

ASIO-Guard cannot be used for:

real time dependent signals
VST Instruments with more than one MIDI input
VST Instruments using disk streaming
VST Instruments using specific controllers (z.B. Maschine von Native Instruments)
VST editors/plug-ins used to control external sound modules and effects
External FX and instruments
Plug-ins using the VST Bridge

Note: As soon as an audio channel is monitor enabled or a VST Instrument track is record enabled that channel/track will be switched from ASIO Guard to real time (and back). The resulting fade in (and fade out) of the corresponding audio signal may be perceived as a small interruption.

CWS
Member
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by CWS »

I noticed also that Halion Symphonic Orchestra is supported by Asio Guard. So why not Halion Sonic SE?
Windows 10 Professional 64 bit-Cubase 11 Pro-Intel Core i9-9900K-32 GB Ram-ASRock Z370 Gaming K6 MB-USB 3.0/-3.1-Firewire-AMD Radeon RX 560-Presonus FireStudio/Studio 68C/Presonus Studio Live AR16C-(4) Samsung M.2 SSD 1 TB

-steve-
External Moderator
Posts: 9691
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by -steve- »

Hmm. I wonder if that No in the Plugin list is incorrect.

I have the Fabrik Reverb (which is inside my Konnekt 24d) which is not supported, but I am able to check it off. That's a plugin that controls an outboard device, so specifically excluded.

I imagine it is the plugin itself that tells Cubase whether it is supported by Asio-Guard, and some of them HSSE included might be wrong.

But I might be wrong... just riffing off a line...

lights
Member
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting ASIO-Guard Observation

Post by lights »

emotive wrote:
lights wrote:So you don't have a reference to where Steinberg said that VSTs must support ASIO directly for them to be supported with ASIO Guard?
No I don't, but if you think about it in a programming sense, it makes sense that regular VST's would allow the DAW to order them in the audio (transport) stream whereas others might require more specific guarantees as to when their events will be "fired".
Yea, I think that you're not correct in your original statement. In other words, I don't think that VSTs support ASIO natively when used in a VST host. And I don't think VSTs must support ASIO in any way to achieve benefit from ASIO Guard. The statement posted above by SteveInChicago is the same one I've read and it doesn't speak about requiring native ASIO support in the plugin for ASIO Guard to work. You think they would mention that along with their long list of exclusions.
-darren
music: www.lightsfadelow.com
follow lights fade low on facebook


i7 980x 18GB RAM; ProFire2626; Win7; everything x64

Post Reply

Return to “Older Cubase versions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests