ASIO Guard discussion

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steveschizoid
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by steveschizoid »

DPC readout.jpg
(305.29 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Not sure what it means though.
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Re: ASIO-guard latency - is it dynamically adjusted?

Post by IFM »

This is the first step to exactly what Logic does. Logic has a setting that sets non-armed tracks to either 512,1024, or 2048k buffer. This is how one is able to do everything inside one machine as apposed to having slaves. Logic, however, works with VI's that stream samples and Cubase says it won't. Perhaps that will change in the future.

I can't wait to give this a try actually.

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Re: ASIO-guard latency - is it dynamically adjusted?

Post by OnkelGrusom »

Bredo wrote:Hey Kim.
In short. Only the Playback channels will "add" this latency, but not tracks put into Monitoring Mode and/or Record Mode (these will use your settings for your interface).

Just like Pål wrote:
ASIO guard playback latency is fixed. It ups the ante by 4.
So if your ASIO card latency is set for 64 samples. You get proper 64 samples monitoring latency for all tracks in record or monitor mode.
The playback channels have the asio guard buffer added, giving a latency of 256 samples.

I've turned it off by the way. Will turn on if needed. Never had problems in this regard before, tracking full bands at 32 or 64 samples with my Motu system (some plugins will add to much latency for tracking no matter what).
How is this even doable?
Playback channels with say 256 samples of latency or even more together with my record enabled guitar/vocal at 64 samples of latency?
The only way i can see this working is if there is some delay from you/me pressing record to make the already recorded tracks "line up" before the actual recording of new takes happens.
And even that sounds a bit far out if you ask me.
But by all means if it somehow works contrary to normal logic I am all the happier

Kim
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by Steve Reaver »

steveschizoid wrote:
system info.jpg
I have a lynx AES16e, L22, UAD quad and solo. I suppose I should try turning the antivirus software off. Variaudio seems to cause issues; I've noticed I get more successful renders when I bounce any tracks with it.
OK all of that is nice, but we really need to know exactly what motherboard you system has, make and model ? Did you build the system yourself or is it OEM ? and how are your drives setup (RAID for instance) and what type of drives are they, (SATA1/2/3) and make Segate, Samsung, etc... it makes a difference because different drives will have different read/write and access times and behave differently under certain conditions and configurations. Also, have you upgraded the bios firmware and do you have the latest manufacturer chipset drivers or are you just using the Microsoft default ones ? they can make a massive difference to system throughput.....

As for your page file, in the past we used to set the page file to 2x the memory, but with 16gb of ram it's a bit impractical. Set your page file to 'System Managed', there is a whole science around how big it should be and where it should be located but try and put it on a filesystem that does not have other system files on it and has a sector size of atleast 4096.... (that's what I do anyway), while you are there change your 'Processor Scheduling' to 'Background Service', as ASIO is considered a background service and this will give it some priority.....

Have fun with all that.... :D

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Re: ASIO-guard latency - is it dynamically adjusted?

Post by orchetect »

From my first-hand experience so far, all audio lines up the same whether ASIO-Guard is on or not ("sample accurate," if you will). Tracks are not playing out of sync ever. Ergo, the latency is not "added" to your I/O latency on non-monitored tracks so as to make them offset from monitored tracks in any way.

What I found was when you initiate playback, non-monitored tracks do not start sounding immediately. It's much more apparent with Instrument Tracks. They need more time to "render" before they become part of the audio stream.

For example, if your playhead is precisely on the downbeat of a bar, and there is a MIDI note on an Instrument track at that position, that note will not be triggered. But notes starting a beat or two after the playhead position at the time of pressing Play will sound out as normal, just as they should.

You can sort of get around this by setting up a constant pre-roll of 2 beats for playback & record so playback always starts 2 beats before the playhead, and you always hear what you should be hearing from the playhead onward. It's just a bit annoying.
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by steveschizoid »

Steve Reaver wrote:
steveschizoid wrote:
system info.jpg
I have a lynx AES16e, L22, UAD quad and solo. I suppose I should try turning the antivirus software off. Variaudio seems to cause issues; I've noticed I get more successful renders when I bounce any tracks with it.
OK all of that is nice, but we really need to know exactly what motherboard you system has, make and model ? Did you build the system yourself or is it OEM ? and how are your drives setup (RAID for instance) and what type of drives are they, (SATA1/2/3) and make Segate, Samsung, etc... it makes a difference because different drives will have different read/write and access times and behave differently under certain conditions and configurations. Also, have you upgraded the bios firmware and do you have the latest manufacturer chipset drivers or are you just using the Microsoft default ones ? they can make a massive difference to system throughput.....

As for your page file, in the past we used to set the page file to 2x the memory, but with 16gb of ram it's a bit impractical. Set your page file to 'System Managed', there is a whole science around how big it should be and where it should be located but try and put it on a filesystem that does not have other system files on it and has a sector size of atleast 4096.... (that's what I do anyway), while you are there change your 'Processor Scheduling' to 'Background Service', as ASIO is considered a background service and this will give it some priority.....

Have fun with all that.... :D
Sorry for the slapdash responses earlier; I was working to finish a Christmas record for a client, and the deadline is tomorrow morning.

First, I have an Asus P7P55D-E. It appears as though the BIOS is pretty far from the latest version, so I'll be updating that soon.

I put together this computer a couple of years ago. I have several different hard drives in there - I believe they are Seagate Barracudas - of different sizes. I have no idea if they are SATA 1,2 or 3 - Can you tell by looking at how they are listed in device manager? No RAID array.

When I built the computer I installed all the appropriate drivers from Asus, but I haven't checked to see if there is anything new on that front.

I do have the processor scheduling set to background services, and just today I've set the paging file to system managed. It seems to have picked a non system drive and allocated 16382 MB, although, curiously, it recommends 24573 MB. Should I change that? I have plenty of space.
Cubase Pro 9, Lynx aes16e, Lynx E44, Lynx driver 2.0 build 23b, PC, Intel core i7 6850K, Asus X99 Deluxe II, 16 gb DDR4 ram, Nvidia Gforce GT 710 graphics card, UAD 2 Quad, UAD 2 solo, Windows 10

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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by steveschizoid »

One other interesting fact: in device manager, under Processors, it shows 8, despite the System Information showing only 4 threads.
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by Steve Reaver »

steveschizoid wrote:One other interesting fact: in device manager, under Processors, it shows 8, despite the System Information showing only 4 threads.
I would say that is doing that because HT (Hyper threading) is not enabled in the BIOS. Look at section 3.6.1 of the manual to find out how to turn it on.

Nice job on using ASUS, I've used ASUS for my last 4 machines and have had rock solid performance with Cubase, currently running a Sabertooth X58 and can't recommend it enough.

I would defiantly going for a BIOS upgrade, and make sure that you update the system files at the same time... but don't do it when you have client work due.... :D

After the upgrade if the problem persists I would also try disabling 'SpeedStep' which is section 3.5.4, this will stop the operating system changing the CPU speed.

Also, do you know what type of RAM you have. You can use a tool called 'CPU-Z' to check the timings on your RAM. It is quite common for the motherboard to incorrectly detect the timings and this can cause problems. Let me know if you need further assistance with that one....

Just leave the pagefile as it is, that's fine.

You can get exact drive model information from device manager. It might be worth going through the exercise of disconnecting all your drives (except the boot drive) and seeing if the problem persists. The reconnect them one at a time to find if one of them is faulty. Just a thought.... but try the other stuff first because it's easier.... :D

And remember, relax, it's only a computer..... :)

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Re: ASIO-guard latency - is it dynamically adjusted?

Post by Muziqa »

orchetect wrote:From my first-hand experience so far, all audio lines up the same whether ASIO-Guard is on or not ("sample accurate," if you will). Tracks are not playing out of sync ever. Ergo, the latency is not "added" to your I/O latency on non-monitored tracks so as to make them offset from monitored tracks in any way.

What I found was when you initiate playback, non-monitored tracks do not start sounding immediately. It's much more apparent with Instrument Tracks. They need more time to "render" before they become part of the audio stream.

For example, if your playhead is precisely on the downbeat of a bar, and there is a MIDI note on an Instrument track at that position, that note will not be triggered. But notes starting a beat or two after the playhead position at the time of pressing Play will sound out as normal, just as they should.

You can sort of get around this by setting up a constant pre-roll of 2 beats for playback & record so playback always starts 2 beats before the playhead, and you always hear what you should be hearing from the playhead onward. It's just a bit annoying.
This bollocks, ive been using Cubase for years and the one thing I have always like about it is Cubase starts immediately on the downbeat, no hesitation. Logic does pre-buffer for about a second or two from pressing play :)

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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by mroekalea »

What also should be checked is your memory, run stress tests (tip: http://hcidesign.com/memtest/)

The included url has a memory test tool which can test up to 2048 MB ram, so if you have 16GB you have to run 7 instances with 2048 configured and last run with option 'available memory or left over mem'

Also a comment on not having a pagefile, which seems a great idea because basically you do not want paging as it is a interupting event which takes precedent over anything, however there are many applications which need paging resources when starting up, they put some config or whatever on the page file for some reason.

With C7 the advise of Steinberg is to enable HT, where under C6/C6.5 it was advised to disable it.
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by mroekalea »

Oh yeah, the standard recommendation of Microsoft is to size your pagefile to 150 percent of your internal memory, more is overkill and less then 100% will make full memory dumps in case of crashes impossible.
Menoj

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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by ostrovitch »

for the virtual memory 150% of the internal memory is good, but it's important
to fix the minimum and the maximum to the same value.
In this way, windows won't waste time to upgrade or shrink the pagefile.

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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by Laurence Payne »

Yes, turn on Hyper-Threading and enable a page file. With that much RAM, the automatic setting might be a bit OTT. Assign a couple of hundred MB somewhere. The uses Windows makes of a page file on a modern, RAM-heavy system are obscure, but it does like to have one!

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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by steveschizoid »

Steve Reaver wrote:
steveschizoid wrote:One other interesting fact: in device manager, under Processors, it shows 8, despite the System Information showing only 4 threads.
I would say that is doing that because HT (Hyper threading) is not enabled in the BIOS. Look at section 3.6.1 of the manual to find out how to turn it on.

Nice job on using ASUS, I've used ASUS for my last 4 machines and have had rock solid performance with Cubase, currently running a Sabertooth X58 and can't recommend it enough.

I would defiantly going for a BIOS upgrade, and make sure that you update the system files at the same time... but don't do it when you have client work due.... :D

After the upgrade if the problem persists I would also try disabling 'SpeedStep' which is section 3.5.4, this will stop the operating system changing the CPU speed.

Also, do you know what type of RAM you have. You can use a tool called 'CPU-Z' to check the timings on your RAM. It is quite common for the motherboard to incorrectly detect the timings and this can cause problems. Let me know if you need further assistance with that one....
memory timing.jpg
(308.62 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Updated the BIOS, haven't puttered around in it yet, but the odd factors already mentioned did not change. Tech support at ASUS did not think it was a problem. I have no idea what type of memory it is, but I made sure it was compatible.
Cubase Pro 9, Lynx aes16e, Lynx E44, Lynx driver 2.0 build 23b, PC, Intel core i7 6850K, Asus X99 Deluxe II, 16 gb DDR4 ram, Nvidia Gforce GT 710 graphics card, UAD 2 Quad, UAD 2 solo, Windows 10

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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by steveschizoid »

I looked again at the IRQ conflict page, wonder if IRQ 16 is a problem...
IRQ conflict perhaps.jpg
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by mroekalea »

Just a little suggestion:

Look if windows search / index is active if so diable it (services)
Tools like NERO also have index features, this can give unplanned harddisk activity, make sure you disable all non needed services. Look around on google for services which aren't essential for windows operating and disable these.

Virusscanners, system recovery (I only know the dutch word so a made a translation) but it could also be know as recovery timpoint or something similar. These are also best disabled.
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by steveschizoid »

I just turned off Windows Search. It's funny; I've found it totally usuless since Win98SE anyway.

When I set up my system I found several guides to optimize the computer for audio - there's one for turning off uneccessary services (google Black Viper services) that I used. I'm pretty sure I chose the safest options.
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by JMCecil »

steveschizoid wrote:I just turned off Windows Search. It's funny; I've found it totally usuless since Win98SE anyway.

When I set up my system I found several guides to optimize the computer for audio - there's one for turning off uneccessary services (google Black Viper services) that I used. I'm pretty sure I chose the safest options.
Actually in Windows 7 that search function was finally awesome. It indexed only what you told it to. I added an extension to search all my code repositories, both cloud and work. It was phenomenal to just hit the win key, type a few letters and gets hits across applications, documents, e-mail and code in just a second or two. They have crippled it in 8 unfortunately. They want to you pass through the Microsoft cloud gate, alla Apple. *quiz* me off.

The point being you can configure windows search/indexing on W7 to be very efficient and NOT interfere with audio. Turning it Off isn't necessary. Telling it where and when to do it's business is. By default it will mess with files while you are recording/editing. That isn't good.
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by Laurence Payne »

killawattz wrote:Steve, you absolutely and positiviely should NOT have antivirus switched on!
Except that an unobtrusive one such as Microsoft Security Essentials doesn't actually get in the way at all. If you schedule an automatic full system scan just be aware of WHEN you've scheduled it and give Cubase a rest for 10 minutes. Or turn the scan off. Otherwise, you won't know it's there.

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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by JMCecil »

Laurence Payne wrote:
killawattz wrote:Steve, you absolutely and positiviely should NOT have antivirus switched on!
Except that an unobtrusive one such as Microsoft Security Essentials doesn't actually get in the way at all. If you schedule an automatic full system scan just be aware of WHEN you've scheduled it and give Cubase a rest for 10 minutes. Or turn the scan off. Otherwise, you won't know it's there.
Yes it does impact DAWs by default. it has an option called "real time protection" that looks at every file as it gets a handle. You can leave the virus/malware protection on, but turn off real time protection.

EDIT: You can turn it off while you are using the DAW. If you are fully using the machine on the internet, it's probably a good idea to turn real time protection back on after your DAW sessions.
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by killawattz »

steveschizoid wrote:services 1.jpg
(330.24 KiB) Not downloaded yet
services 2.jpg
(329.32 KiB) Not downloaded yet
services 3.jpg
(323.74 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Haven't checked IRQ's...
Thanks but I actually said the processes window, not services. But I can see a few AVG things running there.

As a test, please uninstall AVG completely, restart and see how things go. I beg to differ with Conman -- antivirus is notorious for messing with DAWs.

And please post the list of Processes if you want us to take a look

thanks

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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by steveschizoid »

my bad. Here are the processes running:
PROCESSES.jpg
(380.15 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by mroekalea »

Many if not all virus software work with a kernel IO driver, this is at a low level on the hardware abstract layer where device drivers also operate, even when disableing the service or the realtime protection it will still be there! When disabled it will not scan the content of the files but big chance that all the IO still passes through the low level kernel driver and somehow have an effect on performance/throughput. I do not run AV software on my daw and make sure everything I put on it is scanned before with the execption of orginal DVD software like Cubase media. From time to time I share the drives and scan them from the network with my internet machine.
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Win10, 3930K@3.2Ghz, 32GB, 2 x DELL u2713hm monitors (5120 x 1440), monitoring: ADAM P22A with SUB8, Audient ID14 & Behringer XR18 & Focusrite safire pro 26IO, Cubase 9.5 pro & artist 8.5, wavelab 9.5 elements, HSO, RND Portico 5033, CC121, Cubase IC pro, Halion 6, GA4, VG2, Arturia Analog Lab, TRacks CS grand + all custom elements, BFD3, Amplitube 3&4 (fender, orange, SVX collections, slash), Z3TA+2, HSO library, many Waves plugs, Plugin Alliance plugins (BX, SPL, Maag & Elysia), NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, AIR instrument expansion pack v3, Melodyne Studio v4, Soundtoys 5, Lexicon native PCM reverb bundle, UJAM Virtual Guitarist complete bundle, SoniVox Premium collection, Ezkeys upright & Vintage Fender Jazz basses, Fender Bassman 100, Markbass TTE500 , FMC Neo 2128 cab

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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by killawattz »

steveschizoid wrote:I looked again at the IRQ conflict page, wonder if IRQ 16 is a problem...
IRQ conflict perhaps.jpg
Hmm, looks like there's a lot of sharing going on, in IRQ 16 & IRQ 17 too where your audio card is.

I still think you should remove AVG first. Test that. If the problem persists maybe look into the IRQ sharing problem.

Have you tried disabling ports that you're not using in the BIOS? Built-in audio device etc. Dont touch it unless you're confident you know what you're doing though.

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Re: Asio Guard - will it work?

Post by steveschizoid »

The onboard audio device is disabled - from device manager thoguh, not the BIOS. I'll have to look around in the BIOS....
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