Novation Automap shut-down errors

For users of legacy Steinberg Cubase software
Jeff Hayat
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Jeff Hayat »

Sean Dockery wrote:This is the error I get every time upon exit:

Image
Ah, so it's not the hanging on exit that half this thread has been about.

The problem event name is BEX64 - I assume this is Cubase 64? Have you tried trashing your prefs? Temporarily renaming your Vi folder? Temporarily renaming your plug folder? Latest video card drivers? Audio card drivers? Have you tried using Cubase without any USB/FW/external devices (including HDDs) plugged in? Have you tried unplugging your musical keyboard? Have you done a RAM check, using a 3rd party utility? Do you have a lot of plugs? A lot of VIs loaded in the instr. rack (F11)? Have you tried defragging your OS drive? Your sample and audio drives? Is Cubase installed in the default location - C:\Program Files\Steinberg? Are you using jBridge, or some other bridging software? If this is C-64, do you have any 32-bit plugs or VIs loaded?

Also, you may want to do a file integrity check, using the System File Checker

1. Click Start and then type cmd in the Start Search box.
2. R-click cmd, and click Run As Administrator.
3. At the command prompt, type sfc /scannow, and then press enter

More info here:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/15 ... ecker.html

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Guest »

Jeff Hayat wrote:
Sean Dockery wrote:This is the error I get every time upon exit:

Image
Ah, so it's not the hanging on exit that half this thread has been about.

The problem event name is BEX64 - I assume this is Cubase 64?

Have you tried trashing your prefs? No, will try
Temporarily renaming your Vi folder? YES
Temporarily renaming your plug folder? YES
Latest video card drivers? Audio card drivers? YES
Have you tried using Cubase without any USB/FW/external devices (including HDDs) plugged in? No, will try
Have you tried unplugging your musical keyboard? ` YES
Have you done a RAM check, using a 3rd party utility? No, will try
Do you have a lot of plugs? Doesn't matter since the problem is there when VST folders are renamed.
Have you tried defragging your OS drive? SSD drive
Your sample and audio drives? Yes
Is Cubase installed in the default location? YES
Are you using jBridge, or some other bridging software? For 2 or 3 plugs, but doesn't matter since the problem is there when ALL VST folders (including J-bridge) are renamed.

popmann
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

Bex64 is a Brother printer server(driver).

That's an actual crash...not a hang...there should absolutely be dump files related to that...

On a Mac, you could boot without the Brother on, and it would be safe...on Windows, though, you may need to manually stop or disable the service. Do you know how to stop a service. Stop it prior to STARTING Cubase so that it's not a resource handed over to Cubase as a system resource...see if that doesn't fix it. Or at the least, it will change the behavior.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

Paulito...I hear you...I have zero concern about numbers of plug ins used. I don't know if I can better explain why it would hang than to pick on Kontakt. On the Mac, using Kontakt will run "Kontakt memory server" to allow more RAM to be used in a 32bit app (understood C6 is now 64--No idea if Kontakt has changed its behavior)...so, you run Cubase and insert Kontakt for say a quick Alicia's Keys track, right? Kontakt launches KMS, which is a thread outside Cubase's direct control.

This creates a situation where Kontakt is a child process of Cubase...but, KMS is a child of Kontakt that Cubase doesn't know anything about.

So, you do your quick track. Cool. Close the project, but not the app. Now, if Cubase shuts down Kontakt, but has no idea it needs to wait for KMS...KMS stays out there. Hung. Doesn't show as an issue until the app wants to close...and hand back to the OS all the resources it's using...and basically, that process of KMS has resources and the OS says "yo...Cubase, need this RAM back"...and C says "not mine-no idea how to close that cause I didn't open it"...enter issue of just not closing properly.

Kontakt(only on OSX) and Jbridge (win) both do this by design. More will...and there are plenty of other resources other may grab--just using it as an actual, simple example of what happens. So, any session, defined Blythe work you do from the time of opening Cubase to closing it) where you use Kontakt in any way WILL cause the exit hang. Even if you're not playing it actively.

See what I mean? I don't think anyone's using too many plugs ins...it's a matter of some child process doing something "behind Cubase's back" like KMS does...and this when Cubase needs to exit and hand resources back...hang.

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Arjan P
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Arjan P »

popmann wrote:Bex64 is a Brother printer server(driver).
Maybe, but in the context of these problems it is a Windows Buffer overflow EXeption on 64bit. Like conman said.
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

Indeed. I stand corrected.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Optofonik »

popmann wrote:Paulito...I hear you...I have zero concern about numbers of plug ins used. I don't know if I can better explain why it would hang than to pick on Kontakt. On the Mac, using Kontakt will run "Kontakt memory server" to allow more RAM to be used in a 32bit app (understood C6 is now 64--No idea if Kontakt has changed its behavior)...so, you run Cubase and insert Kontakt for say a quick Alicia's Keys track, right? Kontakt launches KMS, which is a thread outside Cubase's direct control.

This creates a situation where Kontakt is a child process of Cubase...but, KMS is a child of Kontakt that Cubase doesn't know anything about.

So, you do your quick track. Cool. Close the project, but not the app. Now, if Cubase shuts down Kontakt, but has no idea it needs to wait for KMS...KMS stays out there. Hung. Doesn't show as an issue until the app wants to close...and hand back to the OS all the resources it's using...and basically, that process of KMS has resources and the OS says "yo...Cubase, need this RAM back"...and C says "not mine-no idea how to close that cause I didn't open it"...enter issue of just not closing properly.

Kontakt(only on OSX) and Jbridge (win) both do this by design. More will...and there are plenty of other resources other may grab--just using it as an actual, simple example of what happens. So, any session, defined Blythe work you do from the time of opening Cubase to closing it) where you use Kontakt in any way WILL cause the exit hang. Even if you're not playing it actively.

See what I mean? I don't think anyone's using too many plugs ins...it's a matter of some child process doing something "behind Cubase's back" like KMS does...and this when Cubase needs to exit and hand resources back...hang.

A great explanation, Popmann. If I understand it correctly, on Win7 x64 with jBridge, it could be possible that stopping jBridge with Task Manager before quitting Cubase will allow Cubase to close immediately. Of course what happens when Cubase thinks jBridge has crashed would be another matter to consider.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by plectrumboy »

I agree, that's a great explanation popmann.

FWIW, I just want to chime in about jBridge: I use jBridge with one 32 bit dll - Groove Agent 3. My Cubase never hangs; using 64 bit Cubase on 64 bit Windows 7 Ultimate and Home. So while I love your explanation, it may be (certainly from my experiences) that jBridge isn't one of these devilish child processes.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

Can be. Was for me...but, it also didn't work well with BFD2, which was the only reason I bought it. Luckily, it went native 64...

Fwiw, mine hung on exit today. First time in forever running the 64bit version. In my case, it was the PlAY DLL that threw the error--but, again, on exit--not on use. Play works fine. But, hung the whole machine on exit of Cubase.

Occurs to me...anyone having this issue with the 32bit version? If not, that's an important clue...but, also supports my hypothesis about an instrument. Why else would you use the 64bit version? I do 90% audio production/mixing...so, I use the 32bit most of the time now. But, back when I was using hardware for audio and Cubase only for midi/VI work...I actually built the machine FOR x64 VI work. I quickly learned there was a HUGE flaw in that concept...and repurposed it...but, I digress...

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Z »

I had this problem too (Windows 7) and got tired of it so I decided to investigate.
I have Automap and tried deleting every (Automap).dll for vst's, uninstalling automap and reinstalling the latest beta version.

No dice, so I downloaded DebugDiag from Microsoft wich is a specific tool for debugging program crashes, etc.
I attached it to the Cubase6 process, and saw when it exited it that it hung with the error message: "WARNING - DebugDiag was not able to locate debug symbols for C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 6\VST3\!SynthEngine (Automap).vst3"

I opened C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 6\VST3 and I had five automap files there:

!Cubase Plugin-Set (Automap).vst3
!Groove Agent ONE (Automap).vst3
!LoopMash_x64 (Automap).vst3
!surroundpanner (Automap).vst3
!SynthEngine (Automap).vst3

Every file was there in the non automap version, and any file starting with an exclamation mark sounds like something no operating system or application likes particularily well, so I deleted all of them and voila - no more crashes on exit.

This may not be your problem though it is worth investigating, but download DebugDiag and see if you'll find something.

The the original poster: I use Windows 7 as my DAW and Mac as my 'normal workstation'. There's certainly some software available for Mac that will let you do the same thing.
If you're tech savvy (I am after some 14 years with administrating a variety of *nixes), you can open the terminal, type 'ps -ef|grep -i cubase' to find the process id of Cubase (it should be the second of the number colums), then in the cmd line type 'sudo dtruss -p <cubase pid>', exit Cubase and see if dtruss comes up with something.

I do believe that an application with a graphical frontend would be better suited at this task, though.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Covert Spartan »

I'm having this issue as well. Mine HANGS on exit, not crashes. Extremely annoying. Did I say extremely?

I am on a fresh install with the default Cubase VST's and only EWQL Play x64.

I have tried a fresh install of Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8. both 64-bit with the same issue.

1/4 of the time it closes fine, the other 3/4 it hangs and I have to restart my pc.

-This is a new system just built 3 weeks ago. This also happened on a completely different system I had earlier this year which was also 64-bit.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

So, you installed only cubase...and the one plug in that occasionally CRASHES mine on exit? I think you have your cuplrit. I never had a problem with Win7x64/c4.52/play2.

I have had issues with the 64bit Play3 in C6--but, that it...it's the 64bit. That might be why it only occasionally crashes it--I don't use the 64bit c6 much...and don't use Play Everytime I use that...

Is anyone having this issue on either platform with the 32bit version of cubase?

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Guest »

Z wrote:I had this problem too (Windows 7) and got tired of it so I decided to investigate.
I have Automap and tried deleting every (Automap).dll for vst's, uninstalling automap and reinstalling the latest beta version.

No dice, so I downloaded DebugDiag from Microsoft wich is a specific tool for debugging program crashes, etc.
I attached it to the Cubase6 process, and saw when it exited it that it hung with the error message: "WARNING - DebugDiag was not able to locate debug symbols for C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 6\VST3\!SynthEngine (Automap).vst3"

I opened C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 6\VST3 and I had five automap files there:

!Cubase Plugin-Set (Automap).vst3
!Groove Agent ONE (Automap).vst3
!LoopMash_x64 (Automap).vst3
!surroundpanner (Automap).vst3
!SynthEngine (Automap).vst3

Every file was there in the non automap version, and any file starting with an exclamation mark sounds like something no operating system or application likes particularily well, so I deleted all of them and voila - no more crashes on exit.

This may not be your problem though it is worth investigating, but download DebugDiag and see if you'll find something

i can confirm exatly what you have said "Z" now i have removed the five files (64 bit) i have no more close down error messages and no hanging what so ever , this has certainly cured my problem .
If i may add that if you wish to control those five files that are deleted al youy have to do is open the automap server and tick them to be automaped and you will still get a perfect shut down .....

GREAT WORK "z" you've made my day ...... many thnks dude

john

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Yutaka »

Play 3.x x64 never gave me shut-down hang with C6 x64 here. I have about a dozen instances of Play in my template. I'm on W7 SP1 x64.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by MrMeshuggah »

popmann wrote:So, you installed only cubase...and the one plug in that occasionally CRASHES mine on exit? I think you have your cuplrit. I never had a problem with Win7x64/c4.52/play2.

I have had issues with the 64bit Play3 in C6--but, that it...it's the 64bit. That might be why it only occasionally crashes it--I don't use the 64bit c6 much...and don't use Play Everytime I use that...

Is anyone having this issue on either platform with the 32bit version of cubase?
I have also had the shutdown error many times with only three instances of 64-bit PLAY 3.X in operation. After reading the Steinberg response to this on their website I decided to turn off all my MIDI devices following closure of the Cubase file. I no longer have the shut-down issues and determined it was my Alesis MIDI controller in combination with PLAY that is the issue.

Given PLAY 4.X is just around the corner, maybe we can hope for VST3 (or even 3.5) compatibility, less memory demands and no crashing issues.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by anilnc »

Hi Z,

You have helped me as well with that tip to delete those 5 automap files.

But after I delete, I can't find these files in the Automap settings like @John was suggesting, to tick them again to re-automaped.

Anyone to help me?

Anil
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Guest »

SOLVED! I originally had removed all Automap files on my C:drive (including the registry), but no dice. In a last ditch effort I manually searched again and found 1 automap file that never showed up in the search....because it was had a parenthesis around it like this: (Automap). Evidently the parenthesis stopped the windows search from spotting it.....which must be a Windows 7 bug or something. All is well now! :D

I still find it strange that the first version of Cubase 6 had no problems originally with this, but it was only the first C6 update and everything since that did not like the (Automap) file.

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Muziksculp
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Muziksculp »

Sean Dockery wrote:SOLVED! I originally had removed all Automap files on my C:drive (including the registry), but no dice. In a last ditch effort I manually searched again and found 1 automap file that never showed up in the search....because it was had a parenthesis around it like this: (Automap). Evidently the parenthesis stopped the windows search from spotting it.....which must be a Windows 7 bug or something. All is well now! :D

I still find it strange that the first version of Cubase 6 had no problems originally with this, but it was only the first C6 update and everything since that did not like the (Automap) file.
Thanks for the helpful feedback.

I have the same issue, currently running Cubase 6.5.4 and get the Cubase Crash message from Windows 7.

I'm using a Novation Zero SL MKII , latest Automap version, I think it's 4.5 . I will try to search for the (Automap) file you mentioned, and delete it, see what happens.

Oh.. Have you tried to quit Automap before quitting Cubase 6.5 ? did that help ? I will try this and provide some feedback when I get a chance.

Cheers,
Muziksculp
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Beagle15 »

I have the exact same issue with the error message when exiting Cubase. It did not do this until I updated to 6.5.4, it shows up everytime. I uninstalled AutoMap, got rid of VSTs (Automap), etc. etc., as others have suggested. Still no luck. I think this is a bug related to the update and for those that may be using particular controllers. Nevertheless, the update is the catalyst for the problem.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Bertisevil66 »

I have win7 64bit, Cubase 6.0.7. and the same shut down problem since I installed Cubase 6
Win10 Pro 64bit, newest 64bit Cubase Version, i7 4970k, Asus Motherboard, 8 GB Ram, 500GB Samsung SSD, Focusrite Saffire 24 Interface.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Conman »

Beagle15 wrote: Nevertheless, the update is the catalyst for the problem.
No. The problem affects the updated version of Cubase. A catalyst is what affects some other process. In this case the process is affecting Cubase 6.x.x. Anyway that statement will probably not encourage a (Steinberg) programmer to do anything about it.
Whenever anything shuts down a computer or a program is usually a driver issue. Graphics or Audio I/F in this case.
Can you find an error log to post?
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Muziksculp
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Muziksculp »

Hi,

The Issue of the error message when quitting Cubase 6.5.4 on my system seems to have been caused by the Novation Automap application.

I deleted all automap related files, they usually attach to VSTs ,and other components in brackets, in the form of (Automap). I also uninstalled the Automap app. and decided to get rid of the Novation SL MKII desktop controller from my setup. All works fine now, no more error messages when quitting Cubase 6.5.4

I wish Steinberg would offer a new pro-quality control surface for Cubendo in the near future. I currently use my YAMAHA Motif XF7 keyboard, as a control surface for Cubase 6.5.4 (Motif XF faders, transport, jog-wheel, ...etc. ) works great !

Cheers,
Muziksulp
Cubase Pro 9 , Groove Agent 4, Halion 6, Halion Sonic 3, Padshop Pro, RND Portico EQ & Compressor, Wavelab Pro 9, The Grand 3, Antelope Audio Goliath, Antelope Audio Pure2., Windows 8.1 Pro

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Pater_Tenebrarum »

Well, as for me, I didn't have the shut-down error in the first version of Cubase 6.5, but ever since I have updated to 6.54 (which I take it was supposed to FIX bugs, not create any), I too have the shutdown bug.
I.e., as soon as I try to shot down Cubase, Windoze informs me that the program cannot be shut down due to an error, and asks me if I want to force the shutdown (I'm on Win7, 64 bit version).
I take it from your post that Novation's automap feature creates the conflict. Does this mean the choice is between using automap and suffering the shutdown error, or NOT using automap?
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Pater_Tenebrarum »

Beagle15 wrote:I have the exact same issue with the error message when exiting Cubase. It did not do this until I updated to 6.5.4, it shows up everytime. I uninstalled AutoMap, got rid of VSTs (Automap), etc. etc., as others have suggested. Still no luck. I think this is a bug related to the update and for those that may be using particular controllers. Nevertheless, the update is the catalyst for the problem.

It is exactly the same with me -I also use Novation's automap (as well as East-West's 'Play' , which some have suggested might be the source of the conflict), but there was no problem until I updated to 6.54. It follows logically from this that it is not the plug-ins that are the source of the shutdown error, but the update to 6.54. Still, I will also try the suggestions that have been made regarding deletion of automap dll's and subsequent reinstallation to see if that helps. Given your experience I fear that it won't.
"The State, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social."
A.J..Nock
"The most primitive work of art also can express the strongest experience, and it speaks to us, if only we let it."
L.v.Mises
?My mission is to kill time, and time's to kill me in its turn. How comfortable one is among murderers.?
E.M. Cioran
"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito" Vergil

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Conman »

It follows logically from this that it is not the plug-ins that are the source of the shutdown error, but the update to 6.54
It also follows logically, computers being what they are, that chances are that after any given update some systems will experience crashes. If it happened to many thousands then what you say would be logical but as it's just happening to a very few nobody can take that as a fact written in stone.
Try defragging your computer first. Basic system maintenance can heal many "problems".

I see from that signature that you deduce from observed patterns. Don't. We are hard wired to see patterns like faces in clouds, world takeover plots etc so try not to read too much into patterns.
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