Novation Automap shut-down errors

For users of legacy Steinberg Cubase software
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haraldsson
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by haraldsson »

Here 2 of the 25 different setups I have tested:

Mac OSX 10.6.8

1
ASIO: Built-in Audio
Steinberg Key
Apple Keyboard

No external USB of any kind
No external FireWire of any kind

No project open

Only Cubase 6.5.3 running on the Mac OSX 10.6.8

Sometime it crashes on quit
Sometimes it quits correctly

2
ASIO: Tascam M-164UF
Steinberg Key
Apple Keyboard

No external USB of any kind
No external FireWire of any kind

No project open

Only Cubase 6.5.3 running on the Mac OSX 10.6.8

Sometime it crashes on quit
Sometimes it quits correctly


This seems to be the core of this issue - there is seemingly no pattern in how Cubase behaves - except the longer it is open the more chance there is for crash.
Last edited by haraldsson on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Best regards,
Hjörtur Haraldsson Blöndal

Hardware:
Apple - iMac 27" 4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16GB Ram - macOS 10.15.3 Catalina
Steinberg UR22C Audio Interface

Host:
Steinberg - Cubase Pro 10.5.0

popmann
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

Ok...Mac power management set to never sleep ANYTHING...? I do remember having some issues if I left my machine and the HD went to sleep...

No project open, assuming you mean you didn't open one at ALL since opening the app, would rule out third party VIs or ram bridges. Is that what you mean? That you opened the app but never opened a project? OR just that you had closed the project before trying to exit?

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haraldsson
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by haraldsson »

popmann - no open projects at all. No sleep.

I will not spend more time on this issue at the moment but I will continue to keep an eye on the problem in different actions.
Best regards,
Hjörtur Haraldsson Blöndal

Hardware:
Apple - iMac 27" 4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16GB Ram - macOS 10.15.3 Catalina
Steinberg UR22C Audio Interface

Host:
Steinberg - Cubase Pro 10.5.0

msy
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by msy »

Even though I have pretty big and complex projects and use A LOT of third party plugins, I actually never had this problem in Cubase 6/6.5 (32 bit). I am really happy about how stable Cubase is.

I'm sure that all these cases can be solved by atleast one of these actions:
- Renaming/moving all the VST folders (not just VSTPlugins...).
- Purging all preferences/setting files.
...and last, but not least:
- Complete clean installation of OS and Cubase. Will solve 100% of the cases (if it isn't hardware/driver/computer problems).
Cubase Pro 10.5.20
HALion 6.3.1
OS: Windows 10 (1903)
Soundcard: RME Digiface USB with ADA8200 + ARC USB
DAW: AMD Ryzen 3950x | ASUS Prime x570-P | 32GB DDR4 3600MHz | Intel p660 NVMe M.2 2TB | Samsung EVO SSD 250GB SATA | Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 5700 XT (set to PCIE 3.0 in BIOS w/drivers Adrenaline v19.11.3)
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popmann
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

Your signature says you run Windows. OP has already said its a Mac only issue.

I still didn't hear if my v6 will do to test...or if this is 6.5 specific...I have 4.0-.5 media and my 6.0 media and whatever updates I can download for that. Maybe I'll read when I have some time.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Guest »

popmann wrote:Your signature says you run Windows. OP has already said its a Mac only issue.

I still didn't hear if my v6 will do to test...or if this is 6.5 specific...I have 4.0-.5 media and my 6.0 media and whatever updates I can download for that. Maybe I'll read when I have some time.
I am the OP and I use windows 7 64-bit.

popmann
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

Sorry...cool...so, that's very odd since there's no code in common.

Jbridge at all?

I'm thinking back...the only time I've had it hang on exit was related to JBridge...which is no longer installed since bfd2 went native 64bit. Which is explainable by the external process Cubase doesn't directly have control over, but does over it's parent.

Will yours hang without opening any projects?

I did have it hang on exit a while back when My two week Slate VTM demo expired...it gave me errors on startup saying I needed a valid license...but, then hung on exit...I just went in and removed the DLL from the plug folder, problem solved.

I've been running C4.52 and 6.0 on Win7x64 for a couple years now without major issue. jbrige hung it a lot. Aforementioned Slate. Bfd2 didn't bridge natively or in Jbridge well before it went 64bit.

Echo Gina 3G...more USB things than should work...ilok2, ilok1, eLicenser, Griffin "knob", keyboard, mouse, MOTU 5x5 interface, backup HD, MCU Pro+Ext, Akai DPS24(runs in a 32bit VM)...sample drive, OS drive, audio drive...all on a C2Q 2.4 with an nVidia chipset.

Weird.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by billum »

For me on Windows 7 64bit, it was Automap causing the shut-down hang, and all I had to do was:

1. Open Automap 'Software Setup...' control panel
2. Select VST3 plugin list
3. Un-enable all plug-ins, so that they become 'unwrapped' (confirm Yes in the User Account Control dialog)
4. Re-enable all the plug-ins that you want to use with Automap, so they are re-wrapped again

Then Cubase (6.5.3) was perfectly happy and shut down with no problems.

If you still have trouble, you could try repeating this with the VST plugin list.
Bill M
Cubase9.5 64bit, Hal4.5, GA3, Wavelab 9.5
Win7 64bit, i9

If it ain't broke - fix it until it is

Conman
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Conman »

Echo Gina 3G...more USB things than should work...ilok2, ilok1, eLicenser, Griffin "knob", keyboard, mouse, MOTU 5x5 interface, backup HD, MCU Pro+Ext, Akai DPS24(runs in a 32bit VM)...sample drive, OS drive, audio drive...all on a C2Q 2.4 with an nVidia chipset
.

Seeing that spec list I'm surprised you actually get C6 running. And then you say it's a Mac only problem.
Scuse me... :mrgreen:
Shut down errors usually mean a machine needs cleaning.
To the OP. Does anything else shutdown or just "run funny" on your computer?
And the simple maintenance; have you ran defrag & cleanup often recently?
Or just dusted the inside of the computer tower?
Asus P6T deluxe; Core i7 920 2.67gHz; 12gig ram; Win7 Pro SP1; Roland Octa-Capture usb inteface; Cubase 6; and no 3rd party additions couple of hard drives PSU 750watt; NVidia GE Force 9600.
"An entrepreneur accepts that the world is the way that it is and goes about changing it rather than waiting for someone to make it easy for them."

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Guest »

Except for the Cubase 6 shut-down error, everything else works pretty flawless on my DAW. Cubase 6 itself works flawless.....except for the shut-down error.

Jeff Hayat
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Jeff Hayat »

Hey Sean - you keep referring to the shut-down error. Are you referring to Cubase hanging on exit, or are you referring to an actual error message that you see?

Conman
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Conman »

Jeff Hayat wrote:Hey Sean - you keep referring to the shut-down error. Are you referring to Cubase hanging on exit, or are you referring to an actual error message that you see?
Interesting point. Runs and shuts down ok except that message appears?
One thing that would be in my mind if that's the case would be something in the registry from an older (updated?) portion of Cubase. I'd consider that one solution would be a complete reinstall from the master disks plus the later updates. Just consider, not necessarily do. I'd trawl the net on it just to see if anything looked likely in that line of thinking. Search term: "Shut down error message" and see if anything turns up involving other programs having this and what solutions may be available for consideration.
Asus P6T deluxe; Core i7 920 2.67gHz; 12gig ram; Win7 Pro SP1; Roland Octa-Capture usb inteface; Cubase 6; and no 3rd party additions couple of hard drives PSU 750watt; NVidia GE Force 9600.
"An entrepreneur accepts that the world is the way that it is and goes about changing it rather than waiting for someone to make it easy for them."

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by csd »

Marcus wrote:Hi guys,

we have already investigated the issue and found some solutions.
We had some support requests related to this.
Every, really every case was related to a third party VST Plug-In or a third party software.
If this thread is referring to the "hang on exit" issue that's been in Cubase/Nuendo for year, then no, that is not correct.

I reported the hanging issue to Steinberg support months ago and demonstrated that it was not related to any specific third party plugin, Automap, etc. In fact I did not have any plugins, Automap, or Eucon enabled when this occurred in a couple of instances (rare in unloaded projects however). It simply happens more with additional plugins, Automap, etc that have to be closed on exit, where Cubase fails to clean up some connection before closing the app - then it hangs.

However, it is not unreasonable to expect that this is related to crash on exit issues.

I am using the same workaround I reported in the hang on exit thread, and while a pain, it does prevent Cubase hanging on exit. This, or both issues (if in fact different), still need to be fixed ASAP.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Jeff Hayat »

csd wrote:
Marcus wrote:Hi guys,

we have already investigated the issue and found some solutions.
We had some support requests related to this.
Every, really every case was related to a third party VST Plug-In or a third party software.
If this thread is referring to the "hang on exit" issue that's been in Cubase/Nuendo for year, then no, that is not correct.
csd's comment is 100% correct; although I always appreciate SB employees chiming in (which, IMHO does not happen enough), Marcus' comment must have been referring to crashing on exit, not hanging on exit. Here, crashing on exit happens to me about 2x per year (ie, hardly ever), wheras hanging on exit happens on an almost daily basis if I open and close Cubase often enough. Which, in and of itself, happens enough. Crashing on exit can be due to a variety of things, including - but not limited to - a third party VST Plug-In or third party software. So there, Marcus' comment was right on. Hanging on exit has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with plugs, third party software, VIs, USB devices, nor Automap, third party drivers, etc. I hope Marcus was not referring to hanging on exit.

Sean, can you comment on my post above when you have time? Thanks!

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

Seeing that spec list I'm surprised you actually get C6 running. And then you say it's a Mac only problem.
Scuse me...
I said that because someone else said that...I was trying to help. As someone with an XP, Win7x64, OSx.6, and OSx.7 box here...I thought I could reproduce it...but, what I'm getting is that no one has even attempted to reproduce it on a clean box.

As an ex IT guy, I can tell you that if I were Steiny, given the info here, I would put your ticket in the "look at it when I'm bored" pile. If it's on Mac and Windows, I don't care what's being said here, biggest suspect is a third party plug. Or mutliple ones that make the same kind of hook/API call. There's nothing more frustrating to

To those afflicted, get a new drive. Install the OS. Install Cubase. Tell me it hangs on exit. Go ahead any use it...but, only with stock instruments and plugs...tell me it hangs on exit. If it doesn't, it's not OS/Cubase/computer hardware**. One by one, you add things--I would start with audio midi hardware devices. Once it's free and clear, start adding audio plugs...free and clear...instruments...Take image snapshots at every step, so that you can quickly get back to last known good. Uninstall and dragging things into the trash is not an effective way to get back to last state. Once you find what causes it...you restore from before you installed that...and install everything ELSE...no hang, you have the culprit. And THAT, Steiny can reproduce and decide if they can/will fix it or whether you need to take it back to the third party dev.

Too much trouble? Then don't blame Steiny for not "fixing it". Give them something they can reproduce. Not "here in my room, it hangs"...because they'll answer that with "here in our 900, it doesn't". Let's assume I'm Steiny. I can't reproduce it. How would you like me to fix the code? (answer: if you can't reproduce, you can't fix) For one in a 100 users? one in 1000? one in 10, 000? The onous is on you (collectively) to give them something reproducible. The best they may be able to do is enable some sort of extra logging/debugging for the app...

**which does NOT mean it's not Steiny's to fix...but, it's an interaction outside of the box software, thus not something they have any way to reproduce.

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by haraldsson »

Mr. popmann. It is not normal that you have to make a clean start - a tolal new install of OS and all the stuff on your computer - just to install a new version of a program.

I am in a positive dialog with Steinberg Support about this issue.

I have tried over 26 different USB/FireWire/VST2/VST3 combinations on my Mac. Including at setup with only the eLicense Key and the Apple keyboard connected - no other hardware connected al all. Thrashed preferences. Empty VST folder. No project open at all. No other apps running. Only Cubase open for 70 minutes, still hang/crash on quit - occasionally.

The only common thread is that the longer the program is open the greater the chance of hanging/crash on quit.

So far, it is seams a totally random error.

This is not a problem on my Windows 7 system on a HP Computer.
Best regards,
Hjörtur Haraldsson Blöndal

Hardware:
Apple - iMac 27" 4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16GB Ram - macOS 10.15.3 Catalina
Steinberg UR22C Audio Interface

Host:
Steinberg - Cubase Pro 10.5.0

Conman
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Conman »

Mr. popmann. It is not normal that you have to make a clean start - a tolal new install of OS and all the stuff on your computer - just to install a new version of a program.
While not normal for most of the time with a large, resource hungry program like Cubase it is not unusual that you could well run into a situation that requires that a complete install be run, especially if one has a fair number of other non-DAW programs installed as well.
Popmann's last post is pretty much on the button and someone somewhere will need to do a complete reinstall. All he's saying is that that is what is needed to get a handle on a clean machine if it still has the problem. You may have a good communication with the developers but it is still going to be quite difficult for them to solve any problem like this from a distance as they can't know the exact circumstances on any given machine or trust the user to give all the info that they need. I'm pretty clued in on systems and I'd have a hard time explaining by email or phone unless I had a week or two to spare.

The onous is on you (collectively) to give them something reproducible. The best they may be able to do is enable some sort of extra logging/debugging for the app...
**which does NOT mean it's not Steiny's to fix...but, it's an interaction outside of the box software, thus not something they have any way to reproduce.
I wish more posters (in other threads, not this one) appreciated that point. And there are some who one wished would bury their heads in the sand. :mrgreen:
Asus P6T deluxe; Core i7 920 2.67gHz; 12gig ram; Win7 Pro SP1; Roland Octa-Capture usb inteface; Cubase 6; and no 3rd party additions couple of hard drives PSU 750watt; NVidia GE Force 9600.
"An entrepreneur accepts that the world is the way that it is and goes about changing it rather than waiting for someone to make it easy for them."

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haraldsson
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by haraldsson »

Conman & popmann.

Fair enough.

As I said somewhere in this forum, this problem is not a catastrophe but a little annoying.
Best regards,
Hjörtur Haraldsson Blöndal

Hardware:
Apple - iMac 27" 4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16GB Ram - macOS 10.15.3 Catalina
Steinberg UR22C Audio Interface

Host:
Steinberg - Cubase Pro 10.5.0

Conman
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Conman »

haraldsson wrote:Conman & popmann.

Fair enough.

As I said somewhere in this forum, this problem is not a catastrophe but a little annoying.
I can imagine. You smell gas but nothing blows up. Just makes one a little nervous. :)
Asus P6T deluxe; Core i7 920 2.67gHz; 12gig ram; Win7 Pro SP1; Roland Octa-Capture usb inteface; Cubase 6; and no 3rd party additions couple of hard drives PSU 750watt; NVidia GE Force 9600.
"An entrepreneur accepts that the world is the way that it is and goes about changing it rather than waiting for someone to make it easy for them."

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

The reason I volunteered my Macs, is because I KNOW the new one has never had any kind of music software...the other, none has been used since upgrading the OS to 10.6--but, I checked, and Logic9/Cubase4 are still installed.

Not meant to sound harsh...at all...understand that I have a unique perspective of actually being an IT guy by trade on a large scale for many years--and actually, if Steiny were the MUCH larger company I worked for--I would be the one assigned to this...if they care. While managing data and network security day in and out, I was the one the IT management would come to when the client group and server group and any third party vendors couldn't track down the root cause of an issue. I realize, in retrospect, you not knowing me from Adam...my posts could be read very wrong...anyway, suffice to say, root cause analysis in computers is a thing I do (did actually) professionally.

And, the hardest part were the end users' assumption that they knew what the issue was...or that it was "random"...random isn't what computers do. There is always an explanation...just a matter of whether it's within our grasp knowledge wise. Random may happen...but, happening over and over...multiple people...nothing random about that--just not yet making the connection.

Process explorer (on Windows) would be my step if I couldn't reproduce it on a clean machine. It will tell you what the handles to files or RAM the hung process has open....and related child processes.

Also for the record...not implying people need to install everything on a clean machine. Of course that's not normal...it's not the solution. It's a step in isolating the issue. I could almost bet money a clean machine won't show the issue--THAT would be caught in any testing...but, here's what we have...current config that has the issue...and (guess/assumption) clean install of the same OS/app on the hardware that won't. Which means the answer is something done in between to the system.

It existing on Mac and PC means its not a "bug" in Steiny's code...as neither the OS nor executable code is shared...the basic functionality would likely be, though...meaning "on exit, close any open processes, issue X disconnect command to ASIO driver, give OS control back to midi ports, terminate code"---obviously horribly oversimplified, but the key would be to be able to see which command is going unanswered by the recipent process...thus causing it to never finish it's exit code.

Sorry if anything I posted was taken wrong...I ReRead it assuming I was "some guy on the net" and realized it had a whole different vibe if not knowing what I did for a living before being called away by musical pursuits...it was not intended to accuse anyone of breaking their stuff, or let Steiny "off the hook"...just to explain its not likely a simple "code bug".

If Steiny would like to contact me, I'll be glad to provide references if they need me to track this down. But, to those whove contacted them--have they asked you to do anything? Given you any kind of debugger to run? Switch to run Cubase with to enable some form of logging? Any XML files they had you send?

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by paulito »

Hi,

i have that problem all the time. Also if none plugins are used. It is a bit annoying.
But nothing serious is happening. All projects load fine after force quit.

On the other hand, Cubase never ever crashes during a session.
It has been rock solid for a long time now on my system. No matter how hard i push my system.

Thats what really matters!

Regards,
Paul
Cubase 7 - Macbook Pro i5, 8GB Ram -MacOS 10.8.2 - Yamaha n12 - CC121 - Lot's of Plugins -

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by popmann »

How do you use Cubase and not use any plug ins?

Do you mean third party? Not own/install them...or just not use them during the session?

Or do you just use it as a midi sequencer for external keys/modules?

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by paulito »

popmann wrote:How do you use Cubase and not use any plug ins?

Do you mean third party? Not own/install them...or just not use them during the session?

Or do you just use it as a midi sequencer for external keys/modules?
Hi,

I meant that the Shutdown freeze occurs very often in my setup.
Regardless how many plugins are loaded.
It happens if i use only Steinberg plugins and/or 3rd party plugins.
It happens even on a completely empty project. (in this case less often).

I use C6 in many different setups, from complex productions with many Plugins, mixdown and mastering sessions, with lots of internal and some external Modules and EFX.
Also as a Live Playback system for larger Gigs with up to 16 Tracks where i am in charge as a Musical Director.
As I stated before, Cubase is extremely reliable and stable in all those often very critical situations.
I find it actually quite amazing how a software complex like this performs so well.
I use almost every feature of C6. The only module i don't use is the Score editor.
I prefer Finale for this task.

The Shutdown freeze is really not a big deal for me because it does not tax the workflow.

Did i make my point clear?
English is not my main language, so please excuse if my first post was not clear enough.

Regards,
Paul
Cubase 7 - Macbook Pro i5, 8GB Ram -MacOS 10.8.2 - Yamaha n12 - CC121 - Lot's of Plugins -

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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Guest »

This is the error I get every time upon exit:

Image

Conman
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Re: Will Steinberg EVER fix the shut-down error???????

Post by Conman »

Look here:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... s.10).aspx
and under the Edit menu to Find = BEX64. A buffer overflow exception on 64bit.
Popmann. You got any input on what this might mean or whether a support call is due with a copy and paste of Sean's error message?
Any time I see one of them that "Check online for a soution" just does nothing for me. I usually see that using Explorer so I guess that's where the fault could actually lie.

I just did a short google of "BEX64" Sean if you want to explore anything there to see if it gives any clues.
Asus P6T deluxe; Core i7 920 2.67gHz; 12gig ram; Win7 Pro SP1; Roland Octa-Capture usb inteface; Cubase 6; and no 3rd party additions couple of hard drives PSU 750watt; NVidia GE Force 9600.
"An entrepreneur accepts that the world is the way that it is and goes about changing it rather than waiting for someone to make it easy for them."

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